Tsukuba Race Prep (all Finished, Some Vids & Pics ) !

[djr81]

In my opinion, NO.

There is no way on gods green earth that rollcage is legal for proper registration.

For one, its a weld in cage and secondly side intrusion bars must not be above the height of the sides of the seats.

If it wasn't for the cage, I probably wouldn't have too much of an issue with it.

You can google all sorts of cars and ask all sorts of silly things about different cars.

There should be one rule of thumb, and that is would it stand a chance of genuine registration within reason.

If you have $12,000 suspension in your car, that wouldn't technically prevent the car being able to get a roadworthy certificate. Though realistically, coilovers using spherical bearings are illegal as these generally do not carry ADR compliance for road use.

When you get pulled over, if the first thing you think of is "my car's going to be defected and/or confiscated" then you're probably in Race Class

Actually it is legal because it is only a restricted (rally car basically) licence.

Just one of the multitudes of loop holes if you are going to try & enforce road regulations or versions of the same.

I reckon that a list of mods be put up then competitors can pick say 3 (for want of any other number) of them.eg

Set 1.

Brake upgrade to A/M kit or ABS deletion.

A/M suspension.

Gutted interior.

Gutted HVAC.

Panel/spoiler mods.

Upgraded LSD's/locked diffs.

Gearbox upgrades/changes.

Plastic windows.

etc etc

Set 2 (stuff that puts you into outright no matter what)

Fully locked diff.

No mufflers etc.

Engine change eg V8 in a Skyline.

Free

Roll cage (bolt in)

Seat

Harness/seatbelt

Engine mods to factory engine (Obviously changing to another type would put in in outright)

This would allow people to bring & run most things in road car class but put the serious people into outright.

Edited December 19, 2007 by djr81

[Roy]

Perhaps a percentage rule of weight needs to be used to determine if its street class. Ie, your car has to be within 95-115% of its original weight to be considered street class?

Personally, i think street class should maintain guards, doors, windows, door trim, dash, boot, and running the factory series of engine. Carpet....the whole car being registered thing is a white elephant.

[djr81]

Perhaps a percentage rule of weight needs to be used to determine if its street class. Ie, your car has to be within 95-115% of its original weight to be considered street class?

Personally, i think street class should maintain guards, doors, windows, door trim, dash, boot, and running the factory series of engine. Carpet....the whole car being registered thing is a white elephant.

Good call although it is difficult to establish what the weight of a car should be. Wet or dry.

The other thing is to get a good gain you need to do some fairly substantial surgery. 5% of a GT-R is about 75kg which starts running you into the list in your second paragraph.

[swanny180]

Yeah I really wouldnt see the idea of basing classes on road legality as working at all.

Problem is ultimately that because almost any modification at all is *technically* not street legal, youd basically be working off a 'reasonable person' type model of judgement.

eg. if a 'reasonable person' would consider modification X to be pretty much street legal then its ok...

The entire premise is flawed because A, it can be very debatable as to what a reasonable person would think and B, someone will invariably be dissatisfied with the result.

Personally I think its a great way of sorting out classes in theory.

But its just too subjective to ever work in practice unfortunately

[djr81]

Its motorsport.

There is no such thing as a reasonable person.

Any reasonable person would not spend shedloads on money on such a pointless persuit.

[Stupid Toyota]

Actually it is legal because it is only a restricted (rally car basically) licence.

Just one of the multitudes of loop holes if you are going to try & enforce road regulations or versions of the same.

I reckon that a list of mods be put up then competitors can pick say 3 (for want of any other number) of them.eg

Set 1.

Brake upgrade to A/M kit or ABS deletion.

A/M suspension.

Gutted interior.

Gutted HVAC.

Panel/spoiler mods.

Upgraded LSD's/locked diffs.

Gearbox upgrades/changes.

Plastic windows.

etc etc

Set 2 (stuff that puts you into outright no matter what)

Fully locked diff.

No mufflers etc.

Engine change eg V8 in a Skyline.

Free

Roll cage (bolt in)

Seat

Harness/seatbelt

Engine mods to factory engine (Obviously changing to another type would put in in outright)

This would allow people to bring & run most things in road car class but put the serious people into outright.

Since when is "Restricted Rally Registration" proper registration? Its limited use rego for RACE CARS.

It's perfectly legal to do engine conversions. Obviously, if the engine isn't of a capacity that meets legality then it won't pass a registration requirement which makes it a race class car.

No aircon is pefectly legal too, but you must have a means of demisting the front screen so an operational heater must be in place.

It practically writes the rules itself. Any car's entering should have a basic safety check done prior to entering the track, and the scrutineers decision is final and binding. Don't like your classification then go home.

Why oh why do you need to make it so difficult?

(Roy @ 19 Dec 2007, 01:49 PM) Perhaps a percentage rule of weight needs to be used to determine if its street class. Ie, your car has to be within 95-115% of its original weight to be considered street class?

Personally, i think street class should maintain guards, doors, windows, door trim, dash, boot, and running the factory series of engine. Carpet....the whole car being registered thing is a white elephant.

You don't need carpet to be legal and you don't need the original engine either.

What if you owned an AE86? Would you like to be stuck trying to compete with a poxy 1600cc carburettor fed engine, or be forced to sell your pride and joy just so you can have some fun?

You need to read an entire post and grasp the whole concept being put forward Roy.

Being registered means nothing without the qualifier of it being able to pass a basic legality check.

Anyone with a bit of nouse would be able to give a car a quick look over and know if it'd come close to being defected or not. Obviously you can be pedantic but if you use the same yardstick as the law and have a certain discretion then it's not hard to govern. Would you like to be the one stuck checking weights, thickness of guards, noise levels, etc etc etc on every car that turns up? It'd take a maximum 5minutes to look a car over for a "basic legality check" and then people can get on with the day.

If you love beauracracy so much, why not apply for inclusion to the CAMS council?

Anyway, Ive had my input. At the end of the day Russell will set the laws, and hopefully people will see the light and abide by them without giving the poor bloke a tumour

[ferni]

"Would/Could you drive it to work everyday?" Yes = street car, No = Race car

[djr81]

Since when is "Restricted Rally Registration" proper registration? Its limited use rego for RACE CARS.

I used it as an example because it just won the All Wheel Drive (road car) class in the WA Speed Event Series.

It's perfectly legal to do engine conversions. Obviously, if the engine isn't of a capacity that meets legality then it won't pass a registration requirement which makes it a race class car.

No aircon is pefectly legal too, but you must have a means of demisting the front screen so an operational heater must be in place.

It practically writes the rules itself. Any car's entering should have a basic safety check done prior to entering the track, and the scrutineers decision is final and binding. Don't like your classification then go home.

Why oh why do you need to make it so difficult?

You don't need carpet to be legal and you don't need the original engine either.

What if you owned an AE86? Would you like to be stuck trying to compete with a poxy 1600cc carburettor fed engine, or be forced to sell your pride and joy just so you can have some fun?

My point was that if you have a range of options the chances of any one car fitting them will be better. It was just a list off the top of my head to illustrate the point of letting people pick from a list.

It is fairly evident that what people regard as reasonable varies widely. This is what makes things difficult.

You don't see Aircon as being a problem. My thing has integrated climate control. So it is a much bigger problem for me.

Your Toyota may have a 20V EFI engine conversion & go hard. Someone elses S13 may have an RB25. (there is one over here in WA - engineer approved). There is a fair degree of difference. So what is reasonable to the S13 fans may not be to the Haichi Roku brigade. And that is before people start worrying about the bloody rotisseries....12a, 13b etc etc etc.

Doesn't make either you or me right, just makes it hard for the poor bloke writing the rules to please everyone.

[Roy]

You don't need carpet to be legal and you don't need the original engine either.

What if you owned an AE86? Would you like to be stuck trying to compete with a poxy 1600cc carburettor fed engine, or be forced to sell your pride and joy just so you can have some fun?

You need to read an entire post and grasp the whole concept being put forward Roy.

Being registered means nothing without the qualifier of it being able to pass a basic legality check.

Anyone with a bit of nouse would be able to give a car a quick look over and know if it'd come close to being defected or not. Obviously you can be pedantic but if you use the same yardstick as the law and have a certain discretion then it's not hard to govern.

Would you like to be the one stuck checking weights, thickness of guards, noise levels, etc etc etc on every car that turns up? It'd take a maximum 5minutes to look a car over for a "basic legality check" and then people can get on with the day.

If you love beauracracy so much, why not apply for inclusion to the CAMS council?

Anyway, Ive had my input. At the end of the day Russell will set the laws, and hopefully people will see the light and abide by them without giving the poor bloke a tumour

Im not going on about what makes a car legal, i think the rego thing should not dictate what is classed as a street car. Its way to far ranging...and a silly yardstick. My comments on what i think perhaps shoudl be included in the regulations for defining a street car. Not what is a street car with regards to the powers to be in the state govt

For a category of car to be classed as street class in a series i think it should have bloody carpet. You should run the same series of engine that was originally available in that range of car. So if you had an old Soarer you can run a later model 2JZ. If you have an old Sprinter, then its a Corrolla so you can run 20 valve etc etc. We are all free to disagree, but i think if you re-read what i posted ...then you have misinterpreted it

Oh, and re the elegibility, that is not a scrutineering thing. They should be different things entirely with the eligibility being dealt with well before the events scrutineering. And any reasonable person will be able to check whether the guards, doors etc are standard. Noise will be taken care of by the tracks licence to run the day and any EPA metering that may accompany the leasing of the venue. Im not tryign to build walls here....i think you are dramatising what i mentioned

What will be more then interesting is who gets to say what cars run? If you enter are you entitled to run? Or is it invite only so only certain cars get to make an appearance. I suppose it depends on whether this is intended to be the pinnacle glamour series which people need to have a proven record to enter...or whether is an open style event that is capped by first in best dressed ?

[hrd-hr30]

its all too hard to define a street car based on modifications. This is easier:

street class - street tyres (>100 UTQG)

race class - semi slicks

jobs done. no controversy, no headaches for anyone with half a clue.

I don't see why people who want to make sure they can run in street class don't want to run street tyres? so what if many of them already have semi slicks? I'm sure all genuine street cars also have street tyres. And if they don't, well maybe they should be in race class.

[Roy]

LOL...im all for just having AWD, RWD and FWD class. Forget a street class. Its a hit out for the quickest cars...or do we want to know what the quickest street car is as well. Dont Auto Salon already do that? Competitors who are viewing the respective entrants will be able to grade the cars based on what they see.

[Downforce]

Brisby for president!

I agree with that, forget street class (although street cars/whatever can still enter) just make the rule of semi-slicks only (no full slicks allowed) and differentiate between drivetrain type.

[dazmo]

Everyone should just let Russ come up with some basic rules and just have a rwd awd and fwd class and if people dont like the rules dont enter simple as that as has been stated several times no one is racing for sheep stations and the whole event should just be fun and an oppertunity to get out on the track with like minded enthusiasts. No matter what rules the event is run under you will never keep everyone happy so those who dont like thr rules should just stay home and play their playstation.

[mathewg2509]

HRD-HR30

I think you should put a pic of yourself as your avatar so myself and others know who to throw rocks at when we see you. Get a life you spanker.

Nice work trying to take action against someone who is just trying to organise events for everyone to enjoy. Fair Trading probably laughed at you and said you would have more luck down at MP's.

Ill probably get a call from the admins of this site telling me that you are trying to sue them because of this post. hahahaha

its people like you who ruin events for every one.

Hope to see you soon

xoxoxo

Matty

its all too hard to define a street car based on modifications. This is easier:

street class - street tyres (>100 UTQG)

race class - semi slicks

jobs done. no controversy, no headaches for anyone with half a clue.

I don't see why people who want to make sure they can run in street class don't want to run street tyres? so what if many of them already have semi slicks? I'm sure all genuine street cars also have street tyres. And if they don't, well maybe they should be in race class.

[Downforce]

Eh?? What's going on there.

HRD-HR30

I think you should put a pic of yourself as your avatar so myself and others know who to throw rocks at when we see you. Get a life you spanker.

Nice work trying to take action against someone who is just trying to organise events for everyone to enjoy. Fair Trading probably laughed at you and said you would have more luck down at MP's.

Ill probably get a call from the admins of this site telling me that you are trying to sue them because of this post. hahahaha

its people like you who ruin events for every one.

Hope to see you soon

xoxoxo

Matty

[Angus Smart]

This, then is a street car?

http://www.my105.com.au/classified.asp?id=7814

Niiice

[Roy]

Everyone should just let Russ come up with some basic rules and just have a rwd awd and fwd class and if people dont like the rules dont enter simple as that as has been stated several times no one is racing for sheep stations and the whole event should just be fun and an oppertunity to get out on the track with like minded enthusiasts. No matter what rules the event is run under you will never keep everyone happy so those who dont like thr rules should just stay home and play their playstation.

If he is going to the trouble of actually trying to get this off the ground and has the support of promoters/organisers etc etc...then that is going to be enough to deal with. But the whole stay at home thing? I understand where you are coming from, as i agree not winning etc should never get in the way of bucket loads of fun. Liek my old sig said, "He who only cares about winning is the first loser!"

BUT, in order for an event to prosper, you need a good number of competitors interested in running so the promotors see the point of all their stress/heart ache and efforts.

LOL...actually i will say whatever Giant says because i still want to buy the seats out of his R33

[giant]

If he is going to the trouble of actually trying to get this off the ground and has the support of promoters/organisers etc etc...then that is going to be enough to deal with. But the whole stay at home thing? I understand where you are coming from, as i agree not winning etc should never get in the way of bucket loads of fun. Liek my old sig said, "He who only cares about winning is the first loser!"

BUT, in order for an event to prosper, you need a good number of competitors interested in running so the promotors see the point of all their stress/heart ache and efforts.

LOL...actually i will say whatever Giant says because i still want to buy the seats out of his R33

haha your a classic!

i am hopefull of something good for all of us to race at, at the end of the day some cars were alot more modified than others at Tsukuba, it didnt matter everyone could see the differences when a car on street tyres was tearing round doing 1:01's everyone new it was a great effort!

[maccattack]

everyone could see the differences when a car on street tyres was tearing round doing 1:01's everyone new it was a great effort!

I think you hit it on the head there Russ.

Most of the people discussing the "rules" here in most likelyhood are not going to win this thing - just have a good time competing.

At many a track session, when times are being compared, we all know who is driving a race car vs a street car.

People can argue all they like but most of us know.

The only problem is when either there is a prize involved, or your name goes up in lights (wherever that may be).

Generally, the prize isn't a sheep station or a bajillion dollars, so it is all for ego.

I myself am happy enough trying to go quick in my street car. I already know that there are faster street cars and a whole

lot faster race cars out there.

Others most definitely want the accolades, and there is nothing wrong with that either.

At the end of the day -

Someone will set rules for this thing.

A lot of people won't like them - but will probably compete anyway.

Most people will have a good time (and probably spend too much money).

There will be a bit of whinging after it is all over.

The world will not end if you lose.

Winning does not make you more attractive to women.

You will not be able to give up your job and live a good life on the winnings.

Russ and Mark will still have a f'cken quick car.

[hrd-hr30]

Eh?? What's going on there.

FIIK. Never seen or hear of Matty before now - even on the forums. But if throwing rocks from a safe distance is all the courage he can muster even in an anonymous threat, I'm not particularly worried.

Matty, you can find me at the next hillclimb - not that you'd even know where that is. Don't dissapoint me now tough guy...