Tsukuba Race Prep (all Finished, Some Vids & Pics ) !

[maccattack]

Cage = race class - PROBLEM, it's primary task is driver safety.

Thanks Gary - I've been questioning this one myself for a while.

A fully road registered car with stereo, aircon, full interior (including back seats) and a roll cage running on semi's is NOT in my opinion a race class car.

It would appear from all of the discussion that finding a solution that fits everybody is going to be tough.

Hope it comes together soon.

[Angus Smart]

Yahoo, fingers crossed i end up in street class and daily driven for that matter too.

[Scotsman]

Easy fixed - Cage's are allowed in all classes.

Race car class = Full Slicks, Stripped interior, or significant weight reduction (Eg. Carbon/Fibre doors or Perspects), or any modification to original suspension pickups, or running engine capacity more than 50cc above stock.

What ever you want to include. Basically just something to separate the quick original (street trim) cars with basic mods from the dedicated track cars.

[hrd-hr30]

Easy fixed - Cage's are allowed in all classes.

Race car class = Full Slicks...

isn't the whole philosophy of Time Attack is about using semi-slicks?

[Downforce]

isn't the whole philosophy of Time Attack is about using semi-slicks?

Agreed! This should be something to limit the full race cars from dominating, semi-slicks only will mean all competitors need to focus much more on handling/driving well with grip limitations

[Gts-t]

I think there should just be one class. If u dont have the mods to keep up with the top guys then bad luck.

All this street car, race car stuff is rubbish. Mods allowed or most likely not allowed (moving firewall, slicks etc) for the one class should be stated and then people enter the event if they want.

When the day is done and everyone finds out how they went the shit talking can start then

Edited December 17, 2007 by 2630GTS

[Downforce]

I think there should just be one class. If u dont have the mods to keep up with the top guys then bad luck.

All this street car, race car stuff is rubbish. Mods allowed or most likely not allowed (moving firewall, slicks etc) for the one class should be stated and then people enter the event if they want.

When the day is done and everyone finds out how they went the shit talking can start then

Word!!! This was what I was talking about in my other post. One class - run what you bring, any car any model, with the exception of full slicks and that's it.

[djr81]

I think there should just be one class. If u dont have the mods to keep up with the top guys then bad luck.

All this street car, race car stuff is rubbish. Mods allowed or most likely not allowed (moving firewall, slicks etc) for the one class should be stated and then people enter the event if they want.

When the day is done and everyone finds out how they went the shit talking can start then

So if my road registered GT-R doesn't have the mods to compete with a sports sedan then bad luck? You are kidding, arren't you? As mentioned previously the number of "outright" JDM cars in this country is few. Allowing road registered cars will greatly increase the pool of people interested in running.

The whole idea behind having a class structure is to encourage more people to enter/compete than just those in the outright category. The result of hte Japanese events has been the opportunity for workshops to show off their skills by producing a quick car - which presumably the owners of road going cars can appreciate & learn from or even buy from the shop concerned. Also the mods required to allow any car to live on the track, let alone produce decent speed are considerable. So a workshop demonstarting a quick road car will drum up business.

Oh and talking shit is pretty much a full time occupation - it merely peaks in the days before an event.

[Gts-t]

ive got no issues with road reg cars, are sports sedans being included in this event? I dont think they should.

and i find the shit talking peaks in the days after the events.

[djr81]

ive got no issues with road reg cars, are sports sedans being included in this event? I dont think they should.

No idea, probably not. But my point is that a track car is an entirely different animal to a road car & also that they tend to be away in their own land anyway. Those of us in struggle town don't appear on their radar so having a class structure doesn't affect them.

and i find the shit talking peaks in the days after the events.

Yeah, except for the "Here's my time & here's yours, below mine on the time sheet" usually brings things to a halt pretty quickly.

[Gts-t]

I find mostly from reading on here that when u show them the lower place thats when all this street car, race car rubbish starts.

It really needs to be one class with a limit on what mods ur allowed. If your in struggle town then bad luck this event isnt for you

Edited December 17, 2007 by 2630GTS

[djr81]

I find mostly from reading on here that when u show them the lower place thats when all this street car, race car rubbish starts.

It really needs to be one class with a limit on what mods ur allowed. If your in struggle town then bad luck this event isnt for you

By struggle town I mean the unequal strruggle that is making a road car behave itself on the track.

Why limit the cars? Why not have an open slather open clas? Then place limits on the lesser categories?

[hrd-hr30]

I think it does need a street class. only problem is everyone who is bordeline wants to make sure they fit into street rather than race - even if they've spent tens of thousands in "basic" mods on their "road" car. Massive brake upgrades often on hats, huge power increases, adjustable arms, adjustable shocks, adjustable height platforms, sometimes even cages. Not sure what more you could really do to a race car excpet a CR gearset? Only the highest level of circuit racing in this country allows lightweight panels & glass removal, so 98% of actual racecars don't even have them. Just because you retain an interior doesn't really mean that much. Harden up and go play with the big boys.

Best way around it is to make street class run normal street tyres and anyone on semis into open class, because only those with the borderline cars will realy be put off by that - not many with those levels of mods will want to downgrade to street tyres with >100 UTQG ratings. And those that do will be brought back a fair way to the pace of genuine street cars. Too much power and stiff suspension on road tyres will need to be well driven to beat cars on more street oriented suspension and power levels on reasonbly tight tracks. That way the choice is theirs.

[giant]

as far as sport sedans entering, if it's JDM and is running semi slicks, without firewall mods and doesnt have one piece front ends and the like it , then it would be eligible. (bit more to it than that but thats the basic's)

roy, i more personal opionion on the ohlins is that in 1 lap the are probably giving us a second at wakefield, but after that first lap the difference is increasing by the third or fourth lap i would say there would be nearly two seconds in it, and more on a bigger track (this is compared to what we were previously running). so big differences as tyre pressures and tyre temps are coming up!!

cheers russ

[djr81]

I think it does need a street class. only problem is everyone who is bordeline wants to make sure they fit into street rather than race - even if they've spent tens of thousands in "basic" mods on their "road" car. Massive brake upgrades often on hats, huge power increases, adjustable arms, adjustable shocks, adjustable height platforms, sometimes even cages. Not sure what more you could really do to a race car excpet a CR gearset? Only the highest level of circuit racing in this country allows lightweight panels & glass removal, so 98% of actual racecars don't even have them. Just because you retain an interior doesn't really mean that much. Harden up and go play with the big boys.

Some things I would do if my car was a race car, not a road car.

Lightest wheels I could lay my hands on.

Proper brakes.

Proper suspension adjustment (ie large amounts of -ve camber at the front amongst other things)

Ditch the HVAC system.

Chuck the ABS.

Chuck the interior including the stereo, seats, carpets, roof lining, door trims etc etc etc.

Chuck the mufflers/cat.

Stick a proper roll cage (ie one that links the suspension towers as opposed to a bolt in)

Seam weld it.

Run seriously offensive LSD's at both ends.

Run lower diff ratios.

Dump the stock body work for such things as vented carbon bonnet, new front spoiler.

Proper gearbox eg close ratio gear set.

Lexan side & rear windows instead of glass.

Install CAMS required items eg 2 litre catch can, proper fire extinguisher.

Thats just off the top of my head. Surely there is enough differentiation between a road & a race car to make a judgement call without too much controversy?

[hrd-hr30]

Some things I would do if my car was a race car, not a road car.

Lightest wheels I could lay my hands on. some people have nice light forged or spun alloy wheels on their road cars

Proper brakes. alot of GTRs and EVOs etc up here running track days have huge aftermarket brakes

Proper suspension adjustment (ie large amounts of -ve camber at the front amongst other things) again lots have this too. my old road GTR had 3.5 deg camber on the front

Ditch the HVAC system.

Chuck the ABS.

Chuck the interior including the stereo, seats, carpets, roof lining, door trims etc etc etc. interior is about the only thing that differentiates some of the road reg track day cars up here from race cars. take the interior out and see if it even gains you a tenth!

Chuck the mufflers/cat. not exactly a massive performance gain. I ran my GTR with and without cat and main mufflers - made alot of difference to the noise, but couldn't feel any noticeable power gain

Stick a proper roll cage (ie one that links the suspension towers as opposed to a bolt in) weld in vs bolt in? dubvious performance advantage?

Seam weld it.

Run seriously offensive LSD's at both ends. some road cars are running LSDs at both ends

Run lower diff ratios. in a GTR that would be of dubvious benefit

Dump the stock body work for such things as vented carbon bonnet, new front spoiler. in every circuit racing class short of Sport Sedans, composite panels are not allowed. lots of road cars are running different front spoilers, and CF bonnet vs the stock alloy bonnet on a GTR isn't exactly a huge performance advantage

Proper gearbox eg close ratio gear set.about the only thing you don't commonly see in track day cars vs race cars as i said before

Lexan side & rear windows instead of glass. in every circuit racing class short of Sport Sedans, that's not allowed

Install CAMS required items eg 2 litre catch can, proper fire extinguisher. you need a proper fire extinguisher to run in any CAMS speed event, and most track day GTR's have a catch can. if they don't - they certainly should!

Thats just off the top of my head. Surely there is enough differentiation between a road & a race car to make a judgement call without too much controversy?

like I said before most of those things are being done to road cars too - my comments in red. and I think alot of the cars hoping to sneak into street class have lots of those things. Needs to be simpler - ie breaking it down by tyre type.

as far as sport sedans entering, if it's JDM and is running semi slicks, without firewall mods and doesnt have one piece front ends and the like it , then it would be eligible. (bit more to it than that but thats the basic's)

sounds good. no firewall mods and semi slicks will keep most genuine sport sedans out. Those built, or being built, to the new AWD Sport Sedan regs will be fine on appropriate tyres. That's a good balance.

Edited December 17, 2007 by hrd-hr30

[djr81]

like I said before most of those things are being done to road cars too - my comments in red. and I think alot of the cars hoping to sneak into street class have lots of those things. Needs to be simpler - ie breaking it down by tyre type.

sounds good. no firewall mods and semi slicks will keep most genuine sport sedans out. Those built, or being built, to the new AWD Sport Sedan regs will be fine on appropriate tyres. That's a good balance.

Rather than go through all that again, have a quick look at this:

http://www.camsmanual.com.au/pdf/3category...203J%20Q407.pdf

Check items 3.4, 3.5, 3.6 & 3.13.

The reason I would seek to allow street cars to run R compounds is that they are common as muck with people who already run their cars in hillclimbs and sprint events. Thinking back to the last one I entered there was not one car on road tyres. So the people who may be interested will already have appropriate rubber. As opposed to having to get whatever street rubber is closest to 100 hardness.

[hrd-hr30]

having built a couple of cars to IPRA regs, I'm very familiar with them. You should refer to section 17 to find out what doesn't apply to Late Model (1986 onwards) cars.

as for 3.6. alot of road cars have front spoilers that would be illegal in IPRA.

and 3.13 does not allow you to replace side glass with perspex, if that's what you're getting at?

[Roy]

There are two schools of thoughts, ppl who want to run for shits and giggles (me) so dont really care what the rules are...as along as the rules let me compete. And then there are those that want to actually win a class. Its at this point that things often turn ugly, but can be fun, healthy competition.

I think a street class is needed for the simple reason that you want to keep the cars in different sessions on the day because of speed differentials. You also can do street class scrutineering on the day, where the open class you would want to do scrutineering earlier in the week.

Odds are the street class will be obliterated by a few GTRs anyway so it makes no difference to me what class i end up in. Both classes will be won by a select few $100,000+ GTRs so dont get too carried away about prizes. Just enjoy running your car and find someone about your mod level to have a bit of fun with

[djr81]

having built a couple of cars to IPRA regs, I'm very familiar with them. You should refer to section 17 to find out what doesn't apply to Late Model (1986 onwards) cars.

as for 3.6. alot of road cars have front spoilers that would be illegal in IPRA.

and 3.13 does not allow you to replace side glass with perspex, if that's what you're getting at?

My point was simply to show that it was possible, indeed common if you are looking at something like an early RX.

Alot of the GT wings sold for cars would be illegal under those rules too.

Hmm 3.13 certainly reads that way, but nayway.

My point is that if you can generate a list of modifications that would constitute a race car then it is possible to allow a road car to have, say 5 out of a list of 20 (for the sake of the argument). Other things may be mandatory, yet more may not be allowed at all.