Going Single

[_Ryan_]

one alternative too race pace is pearl automotive engineering... he has been screwing together tuff motors for a while, and it is either him or someone else randy deals with who used to do the work on a certain z18et bluebird racecar...

call nissco if you are serious, they will call who they need to call, and will either do it themselves or point you in the direction of the man who can, pretty sure its Wayne from Pearl that i was told did the bathurst motors... i just remember being told that it was the bathurst dude who taught him.

-Ryan

[discopotato03]

Jippa3000 fair enough .

Well if it was me I'd get the head off and get it serviced and some porting done . I'd look at doing a valve train that can handle more valve lift with a bit more but not extreme duration . What this does is make for better cylinder charging and venting because the greatest obstruction in the ports is the valve heads themselves . The idea of short/med timing with extra lift is that the valves are open further per cam degree because of the more agressive opening ramps on the cam lobes . If you don't go over the top on duration it shouldn't run like a hairy goat , The trapping efficiency of sane duration cams is quite reasonable and the better breathing from the extra litf shows up as more torque from a bit higher volumetric efficiency - provided other restrictions don't gang up on it . RB's seem to like a little larger exhaust valves too .

I'd also talk to Geoff Raicer from FullRace Motorsport in the US who amongst other things does really nice fabricated RB26 twin scroll exhaust manifolds . He's been there with a few various split T4 flanged turbos in his own RB26 powered R14 so he can tell pretty you much exactly what to expect (I'm pretty sure they do their own in house engine dyno work as well) . Anyway talk to him because he spent 5 yrs doing Mechanical Engineering expressly to build a business making and marketing better aftermarket turbo systems components .

He'll probably suggest using a Garrett GT4088R which has been designed from the ground up as a twin scroll turbocharger , with the right mix of bits these turbos are know to give large (not huge) turbo performance without initially feeling like everyone thinks a large turbo should . They are good at making a lot of mid range and I think very usable top end which is what your going to need to take on 5.7 - 6L V8's .

I know he likes to use what most people consider too much in the way of external waste gates (2 on a twin scroll manifold) but the pressure/flow rate of exhaust gas in a properly developed twin scroll system has different characteristics so needs different components . Basically the exhaust manifold pressure is lower so larger valves are needed to vent the excess exhaust gas to control turbine speed .

With our Pacific Paseo looking better on the greenback its a good time to check it all out .

All that aside don't forget your going to need some very stout clutch and transmission components to make it all survive drag racing abuse .

Godzilla was never designed to be a drag weapon and more of a tarmack racer that was toned back for street use . It did what it was designed to do which was win its class in Grp A and a few spacific Jap tarmack classes .

If you look around the world others are getting good results drag racing smaller lighter AWD turbo terrors so thats worth some thought as well . Personally I think the Skyline GTR was designed to be a GT car and forcing it into a drag role kills off the essence of what it was intended to be .

As is obvious I'm not into drag - in any form ...

My 2c spent , A .

[SimonR32]

try and make the same power without the headwork then lol

i am...

[fieds83]

My new car is getting 360awkw on 22psi and pump fuel with 2560's with just cams and no porting whatsoever. I will be pushing that up to 24 psi which will be getting to the end of their efficiency but its making for an awesome poerband. With head work i would expect to hit 400+. There is no need to spend extra on HKS items, just go to the 360hp each 2860's. In saying that with the right mods your 2530's should cut the mustard. How much boost are you running on them? What manifolds are you using?

[GeeTR]

Personally I think the Skyline GTR was designed to be a GT car and forcing it into a drag role kills off the essence of what it was intended to be

I worry about the stock of spare parts with all these megawatt drag cars.

... thats my meaningless chime for today

Edited October 4, 2007 by GeeTR

[fantasy]

WOW Disco,

Full Race Motorsport manifolds.

I may be out of the street car manifolding business for now but for $2944 AUD inc GST plus shipping. Geebus!!!

They do look well designed though and the welding is floorless.

Still at that sort of money I would expect reasonably thin wall one peace 321 stainless or Inconel runners. (and maybe a heady) LOL!

Maybe I expect too much. Meh.

Kudos to the guy if people are paying the money for them.

Starts to make some of the locally fabricated manifolds look like very good value.

It would be good though to see more of the local lads making well designed high-quality twin scroll exhaust manifolds.

[discopotato03]

I'd expect a properly developed manifold in the same grade of thick walled stainless to cost similar money out here . A lot of manifolds I see here are an exercise in making 6 holes into 2 or 1 . To develop something with 6 runners , equal pressure drop and a collector that works is no small ask .

If you ask Geoff what sort of effort goes into developing and producing their manifolds I'm sure he would be only too happy to explain why . Its only an E mail away .

Cheers A .

[N1GTR]

My new car is getting 360awkw on 22psi and pump fuel with 2560's with just cams and no porting whatsoever. I will be pushing that up to 24 psi which will be getting to the end of their efficiency but its making for an awesome poerband. With head work i would expect to hit 400+. There is no need to spend extra on HKS items, just go to the 360hp each 2860's. In saying that with the right mods your 2530's should cut the mustard. How much boost are you running on them? What manifolds are you using?

Are they the -5's?

[fantasy]

I can appreciate the effort gone into developing his manifolds.

Un-like the US unfortunately 321 and or Inconel tube is not readily available in Aus.

If it was there would be no need to be using the heavy materials that we have been using.

Yeah you’re right, it would probably be a fair price to get 321 or Inconel here and fabricate manifolds.

But in the US where these manifolds are coming from 321 doesn’t cost much more than 304 or 316, and all grades of stainless are cheaper than here.

What grade are these manifolds made from?

I would like to believe there are many local fabricates that can build manifolds of similar quality here in Aus.

The only issues I have ever had with my developed split pulse manifolds were trying to convince people they need a bigger wastegate or two wastegates.

Just had a look at his SR20 manifolds. I only looked at the RB26 manifolds last time.

The SR manifolds look very similar to the 4cyl manifolds I was doing.

The thick wall (3.8mm) stainless steel split pulse SR manifolds I were doing were $1150.00 AUD inc GST un-polished

FullRace Motorsports stainless steel split pulse SR manifold = $1650 AUD inc GST plus shipping from the US. At a guess that would be around $1850 by the time you get it.

Pic of my 3.8mm thick wall S/S SR20 manifold polished.

This manifold won 4cyl dyno comp at last QLD power cruise.

Pic of FullRace Motorsports S/S SR20 manifold

I hope this inspirers more local guys to pick up the pace with split pulse manifolds.

Cheers,

Fantasy.

PS: SkylinesAustralia members and Moderators. I am no longer making manifolds for street cars. This is not an add. Please do not contact me wanting to buy a manifold.

[jippa3000]

disco - thanks for all the info it has really been helpful.

fieds83 - thats some good power your making, i am running about 20 pounds no internals done and one of the turbos is running shit due to a oil build up or something.

I think the manifolds are just stock ones.

Have you upgraded your pistons and rods at all (does anyone know what sort of power the the stock rods can handle?)

Oh and someone said aomething about the guy that did the bathurst engines, anyway his name is Eric and he used to own Hypertech (now access autoworks) which is where I had the work done to my car. He doesn't work anymore other wise I would still be going to him.

[fieds83]

disco - thanks for all the info it has really been helpful.

fieds83 - thats some good power your making, i am running about 20 pounds no internals done and one of the turbos is running shit due to a oil build up or something.

I think the manifolds are just stock ones.

Have you upgraded your pistons and rods at all (does anyone know what sort of power the the stock rods can handle?)

Oh and someone said aomething about the guy that did the bathurst engines, anyway his name is Eric and he used to own Hypertech (now access autoworks) which is where I had the work done to my car. He doesn't work anymore other wise I would still be going to him.

Change the exhaust manifolds before you go buying new turbos, you have not got the most available out what you have yet. The factory manifolds are quite inefficient. You should get 350+awkw on your current turbos and see how you like that, i find that 350+ is ample and with minimal lag on my 2560's as i would expect also from your 2530's. With cams and 22+psi with a decent pump fuel tune from a tuner that really know their shit(ie tuning over 20psi) you should be hitting the high 300's if not 400 anyway. Going single would be selling your current set up way short. Spend the money on rebuilding them if one is on its way out, maybe even highflow them. Either way it will be a damn sight cheaper than going single or buying a complete new setup.

By the way, the oil build up could be the result of a poor tune. Sort out the current issues and get a good tune.

Edited October 6, 2007 by fieds83

[R31Nismoid]

Factory manifolds are inefficient? Plenty of cars making more than 350rwkw with great response on stock items.

Have a look at the turbine housing, thats where the restriction is, not the manifolds.

Side note - That Full Race item looks like the absolute business. If anything the few hundred extra is worth it just for the quality of the work/welding.

[fantasy]

Factory manifolds are inefficient? Plenty of cars making more than 350rwkw with great response on stock items.

Have a look at the turbine housing, thats where the restriction is, not the manifolds.

Side note - That Full Race item looks like the absolute business. If anything the few hundred extra is worth it just for the quality of the work/welding.

Thats $700

There is a guy over on the CalaisTurbo forums doing divided manifolds for $1200. He call him self Extreme manifolds. I don't know how much the 6BOOST manifolds are but I would think they would be around the same price. Both these guys warranty there work.

$1200 for a manifold or $3150 after shipping for a RB manifold. Hmm. That’s well over double.

Maybe flick the local guys some extra cash and get a manifold made how you would like it.

I'm all for supporting Australian product and businesses.

I love great craftsmanship. And those manifolds are examples of great craftsmanship.

I also like a value for money. I am happy to a bit extra and get a good product. But come on guys. Over $3000 for an exhaust manifold is getting a bit much. I think they would be good value under $1900 AUD here.

[fieds83]

I have access to a pair of 6boost manifolds, they are brand new from an abandoned project PM me if interested.

Yes, factory manifolds are less efficient than quality aftermarket fabricated manifolds designed for the purpose of flowing more exhaust gas. Just because a car is making power does not mean it is doing it in the most efficient manner.

[R31Nismoid]

Yes, but what im saying is, have a look at the rear housing of the turbo.

There is little point getting more flow TO it, if its not going to flow anymore, or very little

[acsplit]

one alternative too race pace is pearl automotive engineering... he has been screwing together tuff motors for a while, and it is either him or someone else randy deals with who used to do the work on a certain z18et bluebird racecar...

call nissco if you are serious, they will call who they need to call, and will either do it themselves or point you in the direction of the man who can, pretty sure its Wayne from Pearl that i was told did the bathurst motors... i just remember being told that it was the bathurst dude who taught him.

-Ryan

People who built bathurst motors are overated...

its not the 80's anymore and a lot more tricks have been learn't

[discopotato03]

Fantasy I can't remember what grade stainless they use , Geoff did say that its what gets used in Nuclear power station cooling systems so I guess it must be pretty good stuff .

From a wastegate size point of view the situation is very different to a single scroll turbo system , the pressure variation is greater with the average being lower . Lower pressure means greater valve area to move the gas . Twin gates are obviously going to cost more but its the only way to totally isolate the parallel systems . I can see where the paying customer is going to question the value in using two , IMO this falls in the grey area where the result is paramount and if the competition is stiff it may just win the day . Its very hard to justify the budget and effort to use this kind of gear in a car with number plates .

The more I think about it the better parallel twins look in a registered car , far more legal looking and can use more of the factory supplied bits . I reckon I'd inquire about extrude honed factory manifolds , GMS had good times with some variation of them and the early Grp A cars were good for around 650 brake horse ?

Nismoid , I have seen std and aftermarket RB26 turbos but never had much interest in them because there not much use in a single turbo app . When you mean their turbine housings do you mean the std factory ones (0.48 ?) or the HKS 0.63 2530 type housings ?

Cheers A .