Insurance Quote

[alexk]

Hi all,

I’m getting a insurance through Shannons soon, and I asked them if my mods have to be legal or not and they said ”yes they do”. So for example, if I have a pfc, ebc and hks turbos.. is it best to get the car engineered, not tell them the mods and play dumb or tell them the mods???

They also said in case of an accident they would investigate and see if any of the modifications caused the accident (if they are illegal). How true is this? Any one had experience in this type of situation??

Cheers,

[LatinR33]

They will investigate no doubt there not going to be handing out money for no reason. Just tell them the truth. If they insure you im sure they will only put you on a limited use policy aswell.

[redevil]

if the aco aint ur fault it doesnt matter how illegal ur car is...... if its ur fault then kiss insurance goodbye

[Beer Baron]

my advice is don't lie to your insurance company. and don't ask for advice on how to do it on forums. talk to the company, ask them the questions. after all they decide whether or not to pay your claim, not some dude on a forum. so who's advice do you think is more important?

[alexk]

Fair call baron, but i know alot of people use a power fc and/or have some type of illegal mod/combo on their car and have insurance, just wanted to know what they do with their insurance. Example: You have a power fc and full comp insurance, how did you go about your car with the insurance company??

[Beer Baron]

well what is on my policy is between me and my insurance company. the only advice I can give you is:

be honest with the insurer

listen to their advice

don't lie!

insurance companies will of course look for any legal way to refuse a claim. but they are not all monsters. I mean if you accidentally rear end someone I doubt they would refuse your claim because you had an aftermarket gear knob which did not display the gear pattern (required by law). but I would ensure that any mods that are not road legal are still roadworthy (ie safe). but I can't stress enough that this is one topic where other peoples advice and experience is no good to you. all that matters is your case, and what your insurance companies rules are. so take their advice.

[saliya]

Hi all,

I’m getting a insurance through Shannons soon, and I asked them if my mods have to be legal or not and they said ”yes they do”. So for example, if I have a pfc, ebc and hks turbos.. is it best to get the car engineered, not tell them the mods and play dumb or tell them the mods???

They also said in case of an accident they would investigate and see if any of the modifications caused the accident (if they are illegal). How true is this? Any one had experience in this type of situation??

Actually, you'll probably find that if there are any illegal modifications they _can_ just wash their hands of the whole claim,

regardless of whether the mod actually caused the claim or not. Insurance companies don't want to pay you, they want

to keep your money

That being said, Shannon's make a big deal about being willing to insure modified cars; so if they regularly did this chances are

you'd have heard about it (many people's modifications are _not_ engineered; meaning that many claims on modded

vehicles would technically be claims on illegal/unroadworthy vehicles).

Just be honest with them about what you have, and ask them explicitly whether they require

you to get the car engineered with those modifications (make sure you get a yes/no answer, and get it in writing

if they say the car does _not_ need engineering).

Personally, when I had my old WRX with Shannons I had a Unichip fitted, did not have it engineered and

just had the modification listed on the policy. They did not require me to get a certificate. Had cause to make a

claim once (hail damage); they paid without a fuss despite the potentially unroadworthy modification.

On the other hand, I have all my modifications on the GTR on the relevant engineer's certificate, and it's insured as such...

Regards,

Saliya

[alexk]

Actually, you'll probably find that if there are any illegal modifications they _can_ just wash their hands of the whole claim,

regardless of whether the mod actually caused the claim or not. Insurance companies don't want to pay you, they want

to keep your money

That being said, Shannon's make a big deal about being willing to insure modified cars; so if they regularly did this chances are

you'd have heard about it (many people's modifications are _not_ engineered; meaning that many claims on modded

vehicles would technically be claims on illegal/unroadworthy vehicles).

Just be honest with them about what you have, and ask them explicitly whether they require

you to get the car engineered with those modifications (make sure you get a yes/no answer, and get it in writing

if they say the car does _not_ need engineering).

Personally, when I had my old WRX with Shannons I had a Unichip fitted, did not have it engineered and

just had the modification listed on the policy. They did not require me to get a certificate. Had cause to make a

claim once (hail damage); they paid without a fuss despite the potentially unroadworthy modification.

On the other hand, I have all my modifications on the GTR on the relevant engineer's certificate, and it's insured as such...

Regards,

Saliya

Exactly the type of reply/point of view i'm looking for.. thanks mate

[evil_weevil]

Another thing..posting this question up on a public forum...

[GT-R32]

Tell the the whole truth.

They cannot comment on engineering or modifications on a legal basis, they can only decline/change rates etc in relation to insurance. They are not in a position to comment on legality of the vehicle, they are not professionals in this regard, nor certified or allowed. That is for the state motoring body and signatory engineers.

The legislation says unless the modification contributed to the accident, coverage is in place. Duty of disclosure is another matter altogther, so tell the truth.

[GT-R32]

Actually, you'll probably find that if there are any illegal modifications they _can_ just wash their hands of the whole claim,

regardless of whether the mod actually caused the claim or not. Insurance companies don't want to pay you, they want

to keep your money

That being said, Shannon's make a big deal about being willing to insure modified cars; so if they regularly did this chances are

you'd have heard about it (many people's modifications are _not_ engineered; meaning that many claims on modded

vehicles would technically be claims on illegal/unroadworthy vehicles).

Just be honest with them about what you have, and ask them explicitly whether they require

you to get the car engineered with those modifications (make sure you get a yes/no answer, and get it in writing

if they say the car does _not_ need engineering).

Personally, when I had my old WRX with Shannons I had a Unichip fitted, did not have it engineered and

just had the modification listed on the policy. They did not require me to get a certificate. Had cause to make a

claim once (hail damage); they paid without a fuss despite the potentially unroadworthy modification.

On the other hand, I have all my modifications on the GTR on the relevant engineer's certificate, and it's insured as such...

Regards,

Saliya

Where did you get your information from?

[saliya]

Where did you get your information from?

Hey,

As both you and Beer Baron have mentioned, most insurers general "must be roadworthy"

clauses also have a "contributed to the claim" rider, but that's not what I was referring to.

From my Shannons insurance product disclosure:

"We will not cover any modification that is:

• not legal;

• not approved by the transport department in your state"

From Justcars, via phone: "any legal modifications"

Those are just two insurers of modified vehicles; I'm sure there are more.

The insurance company does not need to assess the individual modification to decide on

legality - if the modification does not fall into an owner-approvable modification class,

and the modification has not been approved by a signatory; then it's illegal, and they can

potentially deny your claim. There's also no "contributed to the claim" rider.

If there's legislation that these insurers are trying to contract their way out of,

perhaps you can point me to it? Are you talking about: INSURANCE CONTRACTS ACT 1984 - SECT 54 ?

If so, I'm not sure how it applies given they've specifically stated "no illegal modifications"...

Regards,

Saliya

Edited October 6, 2007 by saliya

[GT-R32]

Hey,

As both you and Beer Baron have mentioned, most insurers general "must be roadworthy"

clauses also have a "contributed to the claim" rider, but that's not what I was referring to.

From my Shannons insurance product disclosure:

"We will not cover any modification that is:

• not legal;

• not approved by the transport department in your state"

From Justcars, via phone: "any legal modifications"

Those are just two insurers of modified vehicles; I'm sure there are more.

The insurance company does not need to assess the individual modification to decide on

legality - if the modification does not fall into an owner-approvable modification class,

and the modification has not been approved by a signatory; then it's illegal, and they can

potentially deny your claim. There's also no "contributed to the claim" rider.

If there's legislation that these insurers are trying to contract their way out of,

perhaps you can point me to it? Are you talking about: INSURANCE CONTRACTS ACT 1984 - SECT 54 ?

If so, I'm not sure how it applies given they've specifically stated "no illegal modifications"...

Regards,

Saliya

I can't find the specific part of the legislation and can't be bothered searching.

However, if you read that clause literally, it's referring to coverage of the said illegal modification itself, not coverage on the whole. For want of a better way to describe it, that part of the policy is for the insurance company themselves, as it is illegal for a company to insure anything illegal.

Feels like I am at word when I am on holiday in the US. :laughing-smiley-014:

[evil_weevil]

Feels like I am at word when I am on holiday in the US. :laughing-smiley-014:

well what the bloody hell are you doing on SAU!?!?!?

go on, go and enjoy ya holday !

[GT-R32]

well what the bloody hell are you doing on SAU!?!?!?

go on, go and enjoy ya holday !

I've been here for nearly two months and am nearing the end so was have been passing time on occasion.

[saliya]

I can't find the specific part of the legislation and can't be bothered searching.

However, if you read that clause literally, it's referring to coverage of the said illegal modification itself, not coverage on the whole. For want of a better way to describe it, that part of the policy is for the insurance company themselves, as it is illegal for a company to insure anything illegal.

Feels like I am at word when I am on holiday in the US. :laughing-smiley-014:

Hey,

Hate to interrupt a holidaying person, but this is an interesting situation

that I'm sure confronts many modified vehicle owners. Hope you can find

time to look it up or point me in the general direction because I just got

off the phone with a Just Cars "Customer Relations" representative, who

said during the course of our conversation:

"For example, if you have a blow-off valve fitted, and you tell us about it,

we will tell you that you are not covered (because it is illegal/unroadworthy).

And if you do not tell us about it, you are not covered (because it is illegal/unroadworthy)."

Just to make sure I understand, you're saying that some legislation somewhere

entitles an owner to:

a) makes an illegal modification and

b) tell their insurance company about that modification

without affecting their coverage? Provided the modification did not

contribute to the claim? And that the insurer cannot do what Just Cars

said above (that is, their representative is spreading misinformation)?

Regards,

Saliya

Edited October 10, 2007 by saliya

[GT-R32]

Hey,

Hate to interrupt a holidaying person, but this is an interesting situation

that I'm sure confronts many modified vehicle owners. Hope you can find

time to look it up or point me in the general direction because I just got

off the phone with a Just Cars "Customer Relations" representative, who

said during the course of our conversation:

"For example, if you have a blow-off valve fitted, and you tell us about it,

we will tell you that you are not covered (because it is illegal/unroadworthy).

And if you do not tell us about it, you are not covered (because it is illegal/unroadworthy)."

Just to make sure I understand, you're saying that some legislation somewhere

entitles an owner to:

a) makes an illegal modification and

b) tell their insurance company about that modification

without affecting their coverage? Provided the modification did not

contribute to the claim? And that the insurer cannot do what Just Cars

said above (that is, their representative is spreading misinformation)?

Regards,

Saliya

Hi Saliya

The second part I have bolded would mean they are still entitled to decline the claim, but under the duty of disclosure. However if that is contested by the insured, that is the claim being declined, the insurer must have sufficient back up to prove they would have declined cover had that information been disclosed in the first place. So they need examples of declined quotes with 'blow off valve' written as a modification as support.

The unfortunate truth is that it is not uncommon for underwriters or sales people to spread misinformation, sometimes due to no fault of their own. They are not especially qualified in that it does not take much for them to be doing what they are doing, and may not know the exact answer or reason for what they are saying.

For the purpose of this conversation I guess an example of such illegal modification, would be advising to your insurance company you have a '2.5" sports exhaust'. Most mainstream companies would often even accept this modification. But, if that exhaust is 110db and has no catalytic converter, how are they to know? It is an illegal modification, far too loud and carries massive fines for no cat. But if you run up the back of someone, or your car is hail damaged, is it reasonable for the insurer to decline the claim? I mean, they had the modification noted. The answer is no. However, say you ran off the road, over a gutter and completely damaged the said exhaust and it needed replacing. The insurance company will not be able to return it to its illegally modified state.

But, please don't take what I am saying as gospel. It is not advice. It is as a result of years in the industry and certified qualifications. But it is purely for conversational purposes. I am no means an underwriter for a motor vehicle insurer. So I guess, disclaimer wise, the best thing is to do what the insurer has been telling you... it is usually conservative and bias toward them anyway. If you are unsure, make a note of what they say, who you spoke to and when. As a member of the industry not doubt they abide by an industry code, so you can also request the system notes (as separate from your policy documents and schedule), if I remember correctly (again stretching the memory from study done in the past) - but doing so may make them sus' I would guess.

Good luck ya'll. It is not such a scary industry, comsumers are very heavily protected. You just need to know how.

[GT-R32]

Also, aside from being heavily protected by the legislation and governing bodies, consumers are protected by a companies need to protect its reputation. That is one of its greatest assets. Which is why you had a certain insurer years ago, paying out hundreds of thousands in home and house claims when people weren't covered under the policy due to circumstances after a disaster (sorry I can't think of the specifics again).

I had a claim with Shannons, they didn't stuff around, ever at all. They got to organising having the vehicle fixed. That is all they did. Couldnt' recommend them highly enough based on this claim service.

Insurers will not waste money investigating a claim when the cost of investigation may be higher than the claim anyway! An insurer will factor claims into rates, thinking of the bigger poicture, that bigger picture probably entails paying some dubious claims to remain having a top reputation. Think of how much money they are moving on a regular basis, they have more to think about than some blokes blow off valve after a small theft or accident claim, I feel.

Just some different, less fearful, ideas to think about in regard to insurance.

[evil_weevil]

Well said mate, why dont you get back in that work field then??

(after your holiday of course )

[GT-R32]

Thanks mate.

I am still in the insurance industry, doing corporate broking. It's a touch more inivolved than the domestic stuff and on the whole quite interesting.