The Sa Wasteland

[RubyRS4]

Thanks to Tangles for the ride back from MOB to work! See ya at 4.00 for the trip back to get my ride

Oh ... and "hi" Craig Thanks for the offer.

Office is near empty today ... but I'm just as busy! Thank God its Friday!

Edited May 29, 2009 by RubyRS4

[RubyRS4]

LOL at these bikie laws

First Finks member they put on their ban list, and he's got a cleaner record than John Koutsantonis

Hope Rann gets bit on the arse for these stupid laws.

[Nightcrawler]

^^^ how would you stop these crimials that run the majority of the drugs/extortion/blackmail rackets in Adelaide Ruby?

I think the new laws are awesome. By definition to join thse 'clubs' you have to prove yourself (through performing crime), so by definition they are ALL criminals. Was an article in the advetiser a little while back (reputable source I know, but still) that claimed Adelaide bikies have an average of 10 criminal convictions each - with some having over 100. Cleary these are not good people, and should not be tolerated in our society - let alone be walking the streets.

[Inline 6]

^^^ how would you stop these crimials that run the majority of the drugs/extortion/blackmail rackets in Adelaide Ruby?

Taking them down 1 at a time on the brutale and a weekly tv series to put the rest of them in fear. i propose bikies caught of such offences get their bikes painted pink and forced to continue to ride them in public

car clubs could be next, wouldnt surprise me if some cops thought we had simmilar club joining requirements.

Edited May 29, 2009 by Inline 6

[Damo_R34]

lady gaga anyone?

or pcd?

[RubyRS4]

^^^ how would you stop these crimials that run the majority of the drugs/extortion/blackmail rackets in Adelaide Ruby?

I think the new laws are awesome. By definition to join thse 'clubs' you have to prove yourself (through performing crime), so by definition they are ALL criminals. Was an article in the advetiser a little while back (reputable source I know, but still) that claimed Adelaide bikies have an average of 10 criminal convictions each - with some having over 100. Cleary these are not good people, and should not be tolerated in our society - let alone be walking the streets.

I don't disagree that something should be done about "organised crime", but creating new laws and then going after the bikie members with bugger all criminal history isn't going to work. Hell, John Koutsantonis has a bigger record than this Finks member being banned. And suddenly the government has FOI immunity from people checking out their history? But they'll happily label bikies. I know a few bikies myself ... and the only thing they're remotely doing illegally is having an attitude. Violence? I see more of that in the nightclub districts (for which I worked in for 4 years). But when someone with an "affiliation" with a club is involved, it makes headline news.

The Government created part of the problem in the first place, by making it illegal/hard for bikies to own legitimate businesses such as nighclubs etc. So when you take away the honest income, they're going to go for the dishonest income.

I don't have a solution ... I'm just saying the government are not helping the problem. And if I did have a solution, it would not be to cater for my personal agenda ... which can't be said for Mr Rann.

Edited May 29, 2009 by RubyRS4

[Dohmar]

^^^ how would you stop these crimials that run the majority of the drugs/extortion/blackmail rackets in Adelaide Ruby?

I think the new laws are awesome. By definition to join thse 'clubs' you have to prove yourself (through performing crime), so by definition they are ALL criminals. Was an article in the advetiser a little while back (reputable source I know, but still) that claimed Adelaide bikies have an average of 10 criminal convictions each - with some having over 100. Cleary these are not good people, and should not be tolerated in our society - let alone be walking the streets.

He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither.

I'm no fan of the bikies, but these laws are stupid. They're horrendously ambiguous and are wide open to abuse. The erosion of our civil rights has been happening for some time now, but this is one of the worst legislations that have been passed. Transparency and openness have disappeared thanks to Mr Rann (such as the preventing of people in public life from having their criminal records scrutinized, ala Turbo Tom). The laws in NSW that have been passed are just as draconian.

Even the NSW director of public prosecutions (long a thorn in the side of the NSW govt) has said that the laws passed re: bikies are "very troubling legislation that could lead to a police state and represent another giant leap backwards for human rights and the separation of powers - in short, the rule of law" He warns that the law "does not apply only to bikie gangs but 'to any particular organisation' in respect of which the Police Commissioner chooses to make an application."The spectre of a police state lurks here: an unacceptable slide from the separation of powers by linking the powers of the Police Commissioner with those of 'eligible' judges."

(http://www.smh.com.au/national/bikie-laws-a-threat-to-rights-says-cowdery-20090515-b62e.html?page=-1)

Its a damn shame that our hard earnt and won freedoms get eroded by the very generation that experienced the peace movements of the 60's as well has having lived through the nuclear threat of the 1950's and the subsequent cold war. Woe is a country like ours, so bereft of intellectual foresight from our 'leaders' that the elected government forsakes liberties that our soldiers have fought and died for over the last 150 years. If we start here, we may as well throw out everything from the Magna Carta, the Westminster government system, presumption of innocence, right to trial, due process, separation of politicians, the justice department and law enforcement.

Yes, we're a long way off from becoming Nazi Germany, but to sacrifice our freedoms for such a trivial matter is nauseating. Sadly too many people are content to sit on their arses and watch Australian Idol rather than read a book and actually know about how and why we live in such a peaceful country, and the sacrifices that our ancestors made to get us here.

I for one am amazed that you've applauded a Labor led initiative Andrew. There's hope for you yet!

-D

[Nightcrawler]

Labor/Liberal makes no difference here.

Real 'bikies' are people who openly affiliate with clubs like the Finks, Hells Angels, whose only purpose of existing is to 'organise things'. These things are crime, for the uninitiated.

These are not lads like Ruby or Pete who just ride a motorbike, and know other guys who ride bikes. This is not even close to the definition of a bikie. As I said, you need to prove yourself to get into the clubs, and the methods by which you prove loyalty are not things normal members of society would ever do. If you have met a real bikie (who these laws are aimed at), then you will know. Yes I do know some, and they are not pillars of society let me tell you.

These people have gotten away with way too much, for way too long. Something has to be done. If you chose to join one of these 'clubs' then you are rescinding certain liberties in my opinion, and should not be treated with the same fairness that law-abiding citizens are afforded.

[Carbon 34]

ruby could filter the crime with his blue mesh...lol

sorry mate,, love the mesh but it makes for laughs teasing ya

[RubyRS4]

ruby could filter the crime with his blue mesh...lol

boom-boom

[typevu]

hahaha good one Troy

[Krishy]

ruby could filter the crime with his blue mesh...lol

sorry mate,, love the mesh but it makes for laughs teasing ya

hahah the mesh is great for laughs

good one troy *hats off to ya*

[Inline 6]

lol at damo posting up pics of chicks in the midst of a political debate

yes i was aware of that, krishy. i prefer hostillity over hospitality.........wannna fight about it

at the risk of sounding out of the times, i dont know wtf lady gaga is. just heard 1 of her songs yesterday. dont have a clue what she looks like just her rear from damo's shot deff dont know who the other pcd chick is but id hit that

Edited May 29, 2009 by Inline 6

[Krishy]

he is trying to break things up a bit Dan

ohh i prefer the gaga over the pcd

[Dohmar]

These people have gotten away with way too much, for way too long. Something has to be done. If you chose to join one of these 'clubs' then you are rescinding certain liberties in my opinion, and should not be treated with the same fairness that law-abiding citizens are afforded.

I wont argue with the getting away with stuff, but one could argue that more enforcement is needed, not more laws.

And yes, if you choose to join one of those clubs, you shouldn't expect too much help from the judiciary - my point is that every other bastard out there (you and I etc) has to as well with this law.... the problem is its arbitrary and up to political discretion, and so later on down the track they can be used to bring charges against people who havent, by spirit of law, commited any crime.

Its the age old analogy of the little boy sticking his finger in a dyke (and im not talking about ellen degeneres)...

If you let one law get passed which runs counter to our civil rights, then more will follow. It will be a trickle at first and then a flood, all from the same originating legislation.

The law is flawed in this case. The idea of which the law was formed, is not. Yes, lets get rid of these buggers who extort, murder and import hard drugs, but not at the sake of our own freedom. Otherwise, if you really really want to get rid of them, then lets just arrest them, and have summary executions. I can guarantee you for all this law will cost, on a human/social scale as well as monetary, there will still be organized criminals, with the same nasty attitudes to society, and they won't be any less of a threat than the current gangs. Chest beating and tough talking rhetoric is great to win elections but it in reality solves nothing.

-D

[Damo_R34]

Yeah, i'd hate for it to get as tight as car clubs being seen as promoting illegal activites by encouraging and promoting defectable/illegal vehicles to drive on our roads.

[Dohmar]

Yeah, i'd hate for it to get as tight as car clubs being seen as promoting illegal activites by encouraging and promoting defectable/illegal vehicles to drive on our roads.

Precisely. But that would still be the tip of the iceberg. When people start getting prosecuted for simply associating with a person (even if that 3rd party has a spotless record) it leads the door wide open to misuse/abuse. We see politicians misusing their power when they give themselves heinous pay rises, or when they use their electoral allowances on personal expenses (as has happened in the eastern states very recently). And now that they've passed legislation regarding criminal records, then they are giving themselves more rights than the common populace. If the newspapers wanted to check out the criminal records of any person here, they can do so (as evidenced by this bikie not having one). If a potential employer wants to do a background check based upon criminal record, they are free to do so. Why should the politicians have more rights than the very people who vote them in, pay taxes and inevitably are responsible for providing them with an income.

An old adage springs to mind... "Don't bite the hand that feeds you" ... because when politicians (and in days of old, monarchs) gain personally at the expense of the population, civil unrest starts and eventually it festers like an open wound, turning in to revolution, anarchy, and ultimately civil war. Yes this is just a small piece of legislation but the implications for our democracy are massive and should not be dismissed by some kind of lynch mob mentality for the sake of convenience.

-D

[RubyRS4]

Precisely. But that would still be the tip of the iceberg. When people start getting prosecuted for simply associating with a person (even if that 3rd party has a spotless record) it leads the door wide open to misuse/abuse. We see politicians misusing their power when they give themselves heinous pay rises, or when they use their electoral allowances on personal expenses (as has happened in the eastern states very recently). And now that they've passed legislation regarding criminal records, then they are giving themselves more rights than the common populace. If the newspapers wanted to check out the criminal records of any person here, they can do so (as evidenced by this bikie not having one). If a potential employer wants to do a background check based upon criminal record, they are free to do so. Why should the politicians have more rights than the very people who vote them in, pay taxes and inevitably are responsible for providing them with an income.

Because after the Mr Tom Koutsantonis shame ... they don't want to be caught with their pants down again. Give themselves exclusive rights to protect what they want to hide. They're all as dodgy are car sales people who wind the odometer back.

Edited May 29, 2009 by RubyRS4

[Dohmar]

Because after the Mr John Koutsantonis shame ... they don't want to be caught with their pants down again. Give themselves exclusive rights to protect what they want to hide. They're all as dodgy are car sales people who wind the odometer back.

Tom u mean?

I agree. All politicians are subhuman scum. In an ideal world, they would be best utilized as non-polluting pop up targets for the military.

-D

[RubyRS4]

Tom u mean?

I said "Tom"