Gibson Gt-r

[Jetwreck]

Alright I'll bite... why is there an AFM screwed to the left-hand strut tower?

Beer Baron nailed it. The rules say it had to have one....it does!....didn't say it had to work...lol.

Wish I had a dollar for everytime I have been asked that question. All that cash would run us for a season(NOT!!!)...might put up a sign pointing to it saying "Why is this there?...for $1 I'll tell you!"...lol

[Stupid Toyota]

Beer Baron nailed it. The rules say it had to have one....it does!....didn't say it had to work...lol.

Wish I had a dollar for everytime I have been asked that question. All that cash would run us for a season(NOT!!!)...might put up a sign pointing to it saying "Why is this there?...for $1 I'll tell you!"...lol

Thought it must have been something like that but wanted to confirm anyway. Its interesting seeing some of the rule-bending things people did, and the rule breaking things too. Apparently the Walkinshaw Jaguars had an over-size fuel tank and an inflating bladder inside which the driver operated to make it look like the regulation 120ltr tank. This was mentioned in one of the new motorsport magazines on the shelf at the newsagent. Apparently added an extra 7ltrs to the capacity it was allowed.

Rumours abound of GMS "factory intercoolers", boost controllers hidden in ignition switches and behind warning lamps etc. I guess Nissan needed all the help it could get huh

Im suuuuure Toyota never cheated....

[djr81]

Thought it must have been something like that but wanted to confirm anyway. Its interesting seeing some of the rule-bending things people did, and the rule breaking things too. Apparently the Walkinshaw Jaguars had an over-size fuel tank and an inflating bladder inside which the driver operated to make it look like the regulation 120ltr tank. This was mentioned in one of the new motorsport magazines on the shelf at the newsagent. Apparently added an extra 7ltrs to the capacity it was allowed.

Rumours abound of GMS "factory intercoolers", boost controllers hidden in ignition switches and behind warning lamps etc. I guess Nissan needed all the help it could get huh

Im suuuuure Toyota never cheated....

Toyota never cared much about top line Group A racing in Australia. Or Group C for that matter. They did win any number of class victories in their Corollas. So they didn't need to cheat. Rallying was a different story, however.

As for Tom Walkinshaw. Don't start me.

[Beer Baron]

yep, the ol afm bolted to tower with once piece of vacuum hose connecting it up, if the perfect example of why rules need to be written very carefully. it complied perfectly. it had the factory afm. and it was connected to the intake. ol freddy gibson certainly was a crafty devil.

John, i have heard a lot about the hidden boost control on the GMS R32s also. I believe it was either connected to the intermittent wiper adjustment dial or the instrument dimmer switch. something like that (that's if it even existed, I don't know for sure).

[Jetwreck]

Thought it must have been something like that but wanted to confirm anyway. Its interesting seeing some of the rule-bending things people did, and the rule breaking things too. Apparently the Walkinshaw Jaguars had an over-size fuel tank and an inflating bladder inside which the driver operated to make it look like the regulation 120ltr tank. This was mentioned in one of the new motorsport magazines on the shelf at the newsagent. Apparently added an extra 7ltrs to the capacity it was allowed.

Rumours abound of GMS "factory intercoolers", boost controllers hidden in ignition switches and behind warning lamps etc. I guess Nissan needed all the help it could get huh

Im suuuuure Toyota never cheated....

Don't know what your talking about!!!!....GMS never cheated, nor did any of the Group A teams!!......rofl.

P.S. Interesting going through the pit's finding out about all the little cheat's that were on there cars. I know everybody cheated in some way or another but the worst offenders were not Nissan, Toyota, Holden, Alfa, Jaguar, Masarati, Mitsibishi, Volvo, Rover or BMW.

[djr81]

Don't know what your talking about!!!!....GMS never cheated, nor did any of the Group A teams!!......rofl.

P.S. Interesting going through the pit's finding out about all the little cheat's that were on there cars. I know everybody cheated in some way or another but the worst offenders were not Nissan, Toyota, Holden, Alfa, Jaguar, Masarati, Mitsibishi, Volvo, Rover or BMW.

Well obviously you have problems with the Ford Sierras. But you need to make a distinction between the imported (ie built as race cars overseas) and local versions. The imported cars suffered from (Or took advantage of) the far more liberal interpretations of the group A rules used in Europe. Even then the Rouse cars (Moffat & Brock from memory) and the Eggenberger cars (Moffat at his second go) were passed scrutineering. Some of the others just got laughed at.

Hell Walkinshaw used to turn up and put in a blanket protest against all the Sierras - just like he did in 88 for instance. He then withdrew the protest against the winning car (Frank Gardners B & H car) to prove what a "good sport" he was. Bullshit really. Didn't stop him, Walkinshaw, from running illegal cars at Bathurst however.

The inherent problem with Group A was it was too closely linked to production cars. So you had to run, for example, components whos dimension were within x mm of the homologated part. Which is fine if it is easy to measure, bit harder otherwise.

But it is a case of he who is without sin casting the first stone. Pretty much everyone either stretched the rulebook to breaking point or just plain cheated.

[djr81]

Gary, Jet and djr81

Thanks for the replies guys. I appreciate it.

I think I may have to study the paused images from the 1992 highlights DVD to get a feel for the camera. I assumed it was quite large and heavy (it was 1992....) but I thought if anyone anywhere would have pics, someone here would! My next stop will probably be Channel 7's motorsport department. I'd say any request I put to them may be filed in the cylindrical filing cabinet on the floor.....

Jet - I'd love to see any pics you have of the Winfield before or after Terry's restoration. I have seen the pics from Zoom magazine, but if you have any others....

Thanks everyone for the discussion and the pictures. It's great!

Cheers

Andrew

Try here:

http://www.autopics.com.au/cache/item-2638...c.html?cache=no

[Jetwreck]

Well obviously you have problems with the Ford Sierras. But you need to make a distinction between the imported (ie built as race cars overseas) and local versions. The imported cars suffered from (Or took advantage of) the far more liberal interpretations of the group A rules used in Europe. Even then the Rouse cars (Moffat & Brock from memory) and the Eggenberger cars (Moffat at his second go) were passed scrutineering. Some of the others just got laughed at.

Hell Walkinshaw used to turn up and put in a blanket protest against all the Sierras - just like he did in 88 for instance. He then withdrew the protest against the winning car (Frank Gardners B & H car) to prove what a "good sport" he was. Bullshit really. Didn't stop him, Walkinshaw, from running illegal cars at Bathurst however.

The inherent problem with Group A was it was too closely linked to production cars. So you had to run, for example, components whos dimension were within x mm of the homologated part. Which is fine if it is easy to measure, bit harder otherwise.

But it is a case of he who is without sin casting the first stone. Pretty much everyone either stretched the rulebook to breaking point or just plain cheated.

lol...I totally agree with all of your statement accept one. I don't have any problem with any Groups A....I do however have major issue's with the V8 Supercars though.....yawn...boring!!

Hey tell me one thing if you know on the B & H Sierra's. In 87 & 88 they were right hand drive. Then in 89 & 90 they were left hand drive. Does this mean that the 87 & 88 cars were built locally and the 89 & 90 car's were from the German Group A series?

[djr81]

lol...I totally agree with all of your statement accept one. I don't have any problem with any Groups A....I do however have major issue's with the V8 Supercars though.....yawn...boring!!

Hey tell me one thing if you know on the B & H Sierra's. In 87 & 88 they were right hand drive. Then in 89 & 90 they were left hand drive. Does this mean that the 87 & 88 cars were built locally and the 89 & 90 car's were from the German Group A series?

Gees I dunno. Off the top of my head I can't remember. In 87 Frank was running BMW's so they were left hand drive.

The Sierras were sometimes left, sometimes right. They had one of each at one stage. I will have to look up the yearbooks to figure it out - my memory for all things Group A aint that good!

Oh and go Tomas. Good to see him back.

[NickR33]

I remember a story of a certain GMS Bluebird that got the lap record at Bathurst... helped by the fire extinguisher that was mounted in the engine bay... pointed at the intercooler... and able to be activated by a switch in the cabin... I read that somewhere but dunno how true it is

[djr81]

I remember a story of a certain GMS Bluebird that got the lap record at Bathurst... helped by the fire extinguisher that was mounted in the engine bay... pointed at the intercooler... and able to be activated by a switch in the cabin... I read that somewhere but dunno how true it is

Well Peter Brock did the same thing in his Sierra in the Hardies Heroes at Bathurst. Except he got busted for it.

[Sydneykid]

Didn't stop him, Walkinshaw, from running illegal cars at Bathurst however.

Since I was the Motorsport Manager at JRA from 1984 to 1989, would you care to elaborate?

Cheers

Gary

[djr81]

Since I was the Motorsport Manager at JRA from 1984 to 1989, would you care to elaborate?

Cheers

Gary

Steering racks on the early VL Walkinshaw Commodores. They got rubbed out of the results for that.

Although if you were big at JRA I would be interested to hear your comment on the inflatable fuel bladder story that appeared in the current edition of motorsport news (Not the online one, the one at the news stand).

Also were the Group A 3.5 L Rovers actually any good?

Oh and how the 87 VL that Walkinshaw built compared to Larry's example.

And, and, and.....

Edited January 31, 2008 by djr81

[gtrtech]

Has everyone seen the 1st edition of Motorsport Legends magazine?

Shouldn't be too hard to spot with GIO GTR on the cover! Great pics inside.

Cheers

[djr81]

Has everyone seen the 1st edition of Motorsport Legends magazine?

Shouldn't be too hard to spot with GIO GTR on the cover! Great pics inside.

Cheers

Bought it yesterday. A good start, although the content is a little predictable. Hopefully it will improve (ie become more esoteric) as the magazine gets going. I loved the bit about Slug in the McLaren at Mt Fuji.

Oh and someone should tell the editor that the GT-Rs had 2.6 litre motors. Oops.

[gtrtech]

Bought it yesterday. A good start, although the content is a little predictable. Hopefully it will improve (ie become more esoteric) as the magazine gets going. I loved the bit about Slug in the McLaren at Mt Fuji.

Oh and someone should tell the editor that the GT-Rs had 2.6 litre motors. Oops.

It's seemingly impossible for anyone in the media to research historical facts properly when it comes to these cars. Can't believe the amount of inaccurate information I've read over the years.

Oh well, at least the editor has the balls to put a Gibson GTR on the cover and run a story on it. I've been waiting for a certain other magazine to do this but I'll stop holding my breath on that one.

[djr81]

It's seemingly impossible for anyone in the media to research historical facts properly when it comes to these cars. Can't believe the amount of inaccurate information I've read over the years.

Oh well, at least the editor has the balls to put a Gibson GTR on the cover and run a story on it. I've been waiting for a certain other magazine to do this but I'll stop holding my breath on that one.

I hope you are not waiting for Australian Muscle Car to put a Nissan on the cover! Putting the obvious (slightly racist) no Japanese only American/Australian/South African/British oh bugger it Anglo Saxon cars here mate editorial policy it is actually a good publication & written by people with half a brain. Which contrasts it markedly to much of what is out there.

The good bit about such articles is that people like Fred Gibson can, finally, tell it like it was but without the politics & lobbying that was such an integral part of any public pronouncement in the Group A/C era.

Also worth a look is the other quarterly, Race which has some intersting stuff in it on occasion.

[gtrtech]

I hope you are not waiting for Australian Muscle Car to put a Nissan on the cover! Putting the obvious (slightly racist) no Japanese only American/Australian/South African/British oh bugger it Anglo Saxon cars here mate editorial policy it is actually a good publication & written by people with half a brain. Which contrasts it markedly to much of what is out there.

The good bit about such articles is that people like Fred Gibson can, finally, tell it like it was but without the politics & lobbying that was such an integral part of any public pronouncement in the Group A/C era.

Also worth a look is the other quarterly, Race which has some intersting stuff in it on occasion.

Agreed, AMCM is a bloody good read. I have just about every copy, but I do wish Mark and the gang would open up there scope a little.

Considering the amount of work that GMS put into refining the GTR surely they could see fit to run an article? I'm sure they could sell plenty of copies.

Still, they may still be shell shocked after running the Overlander story

Have picked up RACE on the odd occasion, also a good read. Excellent tech stuff.

[djr81]

Agreed, AMCM is a bloody good read. I have just about every copy, but I do wish Mark and the gang would open up there scope a little.

Considering the amount of work that GMS put into refining the GTR surely they could see fit to run an article? I'm sure they could sell plenty of copies.

Still, they may still be shell shocked after running the Overlander story

Have picked up RACE on the odd occasion, also a good read. Excellent tech stuff.

Unfortunately I looked at the first few issues & thought "I don't need to read more about the Tru Blue Falcon or one of Brocks old Commdores." Unfortunately I didn't take into account the quality of the content, nor the fact that the early issues now sell for $100 each. FK it all. Bought all the rest, however.

You shoudl also try Motorsport. Monthly Pommie mag. Old as the hills - started in 1925 or so. Usually has good historic stuff & being partially historic the articles don't date 5 minutes after the thing has been published like, say Auto Fiction does. http://www.motorsportmagazine.co.uk/

[Jetwreck]

It's seemingly impossible for anyone in the media to research historical facts properly when it comes to these cars. Can't believe the amount of inaccurate information I've read over the years.

Oh well, at least the editor has the balls to put a Gibson GTR on the cover and run a story on it. I've been waiting for a certain other magazine to do this but I'll stop holding my breath on that one.

LOL...you should go to a historic meeting were the Group A's are racing....they have NFI!!!!. Mind you the Muscle Car 2007 DVD Group A commentary was good.

Edited January 31, 2008 by Jetwreck