Chasing Reliable 300rwk

[R33GOD]

hey guys im thinking about givin the hiflow the boot and want my car up around the 300rwk range.

from where i am now how much would it cost?

i got all the supporting mods except internals and cams for the moment.

600cc inj, z32afm, pfc,fmic, bigger fuel pump,

im looking to spend between 5-8k on top of what i have.

i want it RELIABLE too.

turbo i can put in myself, just not internals

thanks in advance

[silva33]

If you want a relaible 300rwkw I'd say most of that 5 - 8k will be on building a new motor..

[Cubes]

Best bet is if you do the work yourself:

Thicker headgasket drop it to ~8.5:1 comp. ~$300

While the heads off block the rear oil restrictor ~$2

GT30r .6 ~$1800

Oil/water lines ~$200

Dump - $300

Inlet - $50-$180

10mm Spacer - $30

Carbide bur used for port matching $30-$40

256 or 260 Cams ~$750

Spool Cam gears ~$170

VRS kit ~$300

And a good tune. ~$400

Total $4472.

Then price up what its worth the replace valve stem seals and get a valve grind done. Maybe consider a little head work, just a tidy up they respond well to it, get seat pressure up at least 50pounds. Ideally you want around 70-80lbs, that can only be achieved with aftermarket springs. QLD performance springs ~$300. And on it goes.. snowballs.

If you don't wish to go cams you'll need the GT30 .8 rear to get close.

You'll then need a good clutch. I can recommend the GTR 4puk Exedy from Kudos; awesome clutch, drive ability is great, pedal weight is great and it grabs hard. They are a little over $700 but well worth it.

Thats IMO your best bet to get it and keep it reliable on a stock bottom end with pump fuel.

Some tuners are able to get a stock untouched motor reliable at 400rwhp but there's a hell of a lot that can't and break ring lands. Best to play it safe and drop the static comp .5 of a point and not worry about it. Especially as .5 of a point you won't notice.

While its off take the opportunity to block the rear heads oil restrictor of which keeps more oil in the sump and prevents surge and oil floating around the inlet pipes.

[R33GOD]

should i get the block strengthened also and better pistons. how much would that be?

and labour on everything?

[R33GOD]

or if i decided to get a set of cams and cam gear what power figure would i be looking at? im at 231 rwk now

[R31Nismoid]

Rebuild - 7000

Diff - 1100

Clutch - 1200

Tune - 600

Turbo - 1800

Manifold - 1100

+ misc bits like oil/water/gaskets/labour - 1000

So around $14,000

Realistically 300rwkw is a 20k adventure to have the motor run for the next 5+ years. So you've spent only a 1/3 basically.

If you choose to skimp on parts, costs, you'll end up paying more in the long run 9 times outta 10.

Your 5-8k, as stated is for the bottom end mate without even thinking about anything else.

While people have 300rwkw on the stock bottom end, there are even less (5-6 people come to mind) than have lasted more than 18months.

So the motor is going to die eventually.

I suggest you be happy with 250-260rwkw.

Its more than half the price and still uses a lot of factory gear you have on the car which further cuts costs and keep the reliability of factory parts working in your favour.

If your car is predominately a street car, much more than 250/260rwkw you then need to spend another 5-7k just on suspension/brakes. So now its closer to 25k (total cost)

If my car was finished i'd take you for a ride and see just how useless 300rwkw is on the street

But it wont be for another month or so yet.

[**RB2530**]

My 2c worth is to build an RB25/30...Peak torque at around 4000 rpm makes an awesome street engine...It may exceed your budget a bit but you wont regret it once its done....I am making 220-230rwkW at 0.8-0.9bar with standard inj and ecu. AFRs dont exceed 12:1...

[Cubes]

Yeah I do agree with Ash.

The bottom end will eventually go but I was factoring in that when it does go (hopefully not bottom end bearings as they can also take the turbo with it) you would simply rebuild it.

300rwkw is fairly useless on the street and without spending lots on really good tyres its a little dangerous especially in third gear if you overtake on the open road etc.

Mines no quicker to 100km/h from a standing start than a 200rwkw r33 gtst. Without spending lots of tyres I can't see mine hooking up all that well. But its fun and won't be 'just' a street car anyway.

[R33GOD]

Rebuild - 7000

Diff - 1100

Clutch - 1200

Tune - 600

Turbo - 1800

Manifold - 1100

+ misc bits like oil/water/gaskets/labour - 1000

So around $14,000

Realistically 300rwkw is a 20k adventure to have the motor run for the next 5+ years. So you've spent only a 1/3 basically.

If you choose to skimp on parts, costs, you'll end up paying more in the long run 9 times outta 10.

Your 5-8k, as stated is for the bottom end mate without even thinking about anything else.

While people have 300rwkw on the stock bottom end, there are even less (5-6 people come to mind) than have lasted more than 18months.

So the motor is going to die eventually.

I suggest you be happy with 250-260rwkw.

Its more than half the price and still uses a lot of factory gear you have on the car which further cuts costs and keep the reliability of factory parts working in your favour.

If your car is predominately a street car, much more than 250/260rwkw you then need to spend another 5-7k just on suspension/brakes. So now its closer to 25k (total cost)

If my car was finished i'd take you for a ride and see just how useless 300rwkw is on the street

But it wont be for another month or so yet.

so just put a set of cams in and be done with it?

and yea il take u up on that offer ash

[sl33py]

Nismoid brings up and interesting point. I'd say it's very heavily dependant on the setup of the turbo - if it kicks very hard when it hits boost then of course it'll be useless/crazy on the street, but something with a relatively smooth/linear curve would be much more manageable and easier to drive...

But more along the lines of R33GOD's post, I wonder:

1) If you take a stock R33 GTST and do NOTHING to it but give it more power and the drivetrain to handle it, how much power is "good/manageable" on the street?

2) If you completely redo the suspension, how does that affect the maximum "manageable" power?

I suspect it'd only a narrow range maybe 50kw difference between "nice" and "too much" between a thoroughly modded GTST and one with just engine modds.

I ask because I'm coming from completely the opposite direction: everything except power has been done: handling/tyres/brakes (well pads anyway), cooling system soon, THEN power.

Edited October 26, 2007 by sl33py

[SilverECR33]

And a good tune. ~$400

Hey, where do you get these 'good' tunes for only '$400' . Ive been having trouble finding them lol. they all seem to end up blowing way past the $400 mark

[R33GOD]

creatd motorsport around that figure

[R33GOD]

i spoke to a mate and he rekons for cams only run 256/264. good for a internally stock rb25?

how much power from where im at now would that get me. car will be running same boost level @ 16

[R31Nismoid]

Nismoid brings up and interesting point. I'd say it's very heavily dependant on the setup of the turbo - if it kicks very hard when it hits boost then of course it'll be useless/crazy on the street, but something with a relatively smooth/linear curve would be much more manageable and easier to drive...

But more along the lines of R33GOD's post, I wonder:

1) If you take a stock R33 GTST and do NOTHING to it but give it more power and the drivetrain to handle it, how much power is "good/manageable" on the street?

2) If you completely redo the suspension, how does that affect the maximum "manageable" power?

I suspect it'd only a narrow range maybe 50kw difference between "nice" and "too much" between a thoroughly modded GTST and one with just engine modds.

I ask because I'm coming from completely the opposite direction: everything except power has been done: handling/tyres/brakes (well pads anyway), cooling system soon, THEN power.

Ye, tis a good point to consider, and a very real one at that as I went across similar things when you get into larger power figures and RWD.

My HR31 was right as rain with 270rwkw/17psi & traction, griped and went like a bullet.

Bumped it to 330rwkw/24psi and it honestly was a joke. It would spin the tyres 1st through 3rd as it ramped onto boost, nothing could be done about it as I was constantly backing off to settle the car from even 3/4 throttle acceleration. Perfect for drags, useless for street

(different IRS setup so hard to compare literally in this situation)

To your points, lets put in a good driver with good throttle sense rather than some dude who is new to the power for the sake of the points.

1. I would say in the range of 220-240rwkw is about the limit with stock "grip bits" and just power (with average tyres/stock rims)

2. I would say closer to 280-300rwkw, but then by that stage from suspension/brakes/tyres & wheels/diff, you have spend quite close to 7000 just there on everything as a whole as the whole manageable thing comes from a total package setup of various small areas.

Tyres probably being the most costly part of all, say using 18" wheels with lower profiles.

If the cars from 1 & 2 were pitted against one another with even 240rwkw, car 2 would be beyond faster everytime given both drivers are equal.

R33GOD - i reckon either change the turbo if you want a little more power and focus on the grip factors.

Or just focus on grip factors to begin with, and then if you still want more go the turbo.

That way also, you'll be able to take it to your club level circuit days and really enjoy the car you have, with 230rwkw and a good setup it should be rather fun to drive.

Rather than just being a 280rwkw 'straight line' style car with grip parts and loosing your license one day because you get a bit excited at the lights

But thats my personal ideal kicking in there

[Cubes]

Hey, where do you get these 'good' tunes for only '$400' . Ive been having trouble finding them lol. they all seem to end up blowing way past the $400 mark

There's workshops within 5-10mins of each other everywhere here in Adelaide.

$400 is 4hrs on a dyno; plenty of time for a fine tune especially when most tuners run a datalogit have maps already suitable and then simply touch up.

[R33GOD]

my car is a street car the mjority of the time. all these past experiences have totally put me off lol. if it was purely a drag car i would definately do it. gonna get some ajustable upper camber arms for the rear to help grip even now!

[BAMR33]

You'll then need a good clutch. I can recommend the GTR 4puk Exedy from Kudos; awesome clutch, drive ability is great, pedal weight is great and it grabs hard. They are a little over $700 but well worth it.

Hey Cubes,

What are these clutches like when dropping it in first or snapping second. I bought a cushion button off slide before anyone else had troubles, but mine is absolute rubbish slips all time and has a lighter pedal feel than stock.

[Cubes]

The pedal is lighter than my old xtreme XHD but its still heavy.

Dropping it in first, second or third it grabs hard. In traffic I do have to allow a little room before taking off as it does take up quite quick.

BUT if you are super super carefull you can ride it.

The instructions say to run the clutch in; I took it easy for the first 1000km's; its feel changed noticably. It was an absolute pig to drive the first 400km's or so then it smoothed up and is now really nice. Feels identical to a mates OS Giken Twin.

[candy33]

i spoke to a mate and he rekons for cams only run 256/264. good for a internally stock rb25?

how much power from where im at now would that get me. car will be running same boost level @ 16

For a rb25 i believe its only safe to run 256 cams, as rb25's use hydraulic lifters, unlike gtrs with solid lifters.

If you go more than 256 cams, its advisable to upgrade valve springs/seats etc or run a low lift cam eg. 8.8mm?

And cams don't really give you much power, more power delivery than anything. Unless you have a big turbo for them to consume more air.etc

[Cubes]

I believe its the lift that is the problem + apparently more than 260degree and VCT is not a happy camper.

If your not at the flow limit of the turbo be it exhaust or inlet then cams do make more power. Especially as this thread is 300rwkw; push 300rwkw with std cams requires more boost than if you were to run a set of little 256's.