R32 Rear Subframe To S13?

[mello88]

Hello from Las Vegas! I've lurked here for a while researching info on my RB swap, but this time I have some questions regarding R32 rear subframe onto a S13 chassis.

Basically, my s13 rear subframe has been tweaked for months now (curbed, woops). My next project I want to complete is:

* Replace my rear subframe

* Go with solid subframe bushings

* Go 5 lug at the same time

* Upgrade the brakes to larger caliper.

* Keep cable e-brake if possible... Otherwise step up to hydraulic

* Add rear multilink arms

* Go to 4.4 final drive

* Goal: Keep/Re-use my 2way s13 non-vlsd/non-abs Kaaz

* Goal: Keep/Re-use my s13 coilovers

* Goal: Keep/Re-use my Whiteline rear sway bar

* Goal: Minimize labor & costs, do most of the work out of car and install as a unit.

I've just recently started researching this project, but I have some questions:

I think an R32 rear subframe bolts directly up to s13, but will of course require a HICAS eliminator. I am thinking of sourcing a complete r32 rear: subframe+diff+axles+arms+hubs+brakes. I will add solid bushings and multilink arms.

1) Can someone please verify the s13 and r32 rear arms are identical?

2) I believe the r32 non-GTRs came with 4.36 R&P final drive in an r200 housing with 5-bolt output shafts? Will I be able to swap my S13 non-ABS non-VLSD Kaaz 2way diff into this new housing?

3) Was non-ABS an option on non-GTR r32s? I ask because my s13 does not have ABS, not sure if this is going to be an issue (driveshaft length?)

4) One last question, will I be able to use my S13 coilovers with the R32 spindles? Not sure but I think I will need to use r32/z32? coilover lower halfs.

I am open to any suggestions you may have.. From what I have read there is no real difference between the S13 and R32 rear subframe, but I want the 4.36 and the 5 lug hubs/brakes also. I can source complete R32 subframe/rear end from our japanese importer, but I need to be sure what I'm ordering first.

Thank you for your help

Edited November 1, 2007 by mello88

[1400r]

better off with a non hicas rear subframe i.e s13 with all the 32 gear bolted on

even if you lock the hicas with a bar Ive seen a number wear out the hicas ball joints on 32's a31's

swap to the r32/r33/a31 drum style handbrake just need to use 33 cables or you can buy kits x japan off yahoo

1. yep there the same (gts-t were talking about )

2. hmm not sure on this one r200 is r200 though so should be possible

3. yes I have a non abs R32 gts-t probably more non abs than abs around in gts-t's

4. if you use a gts-t craddle yes if you use a gtr craddle no the bottom mounts are different (there forked sorta)

my suggestion as above get

new s13 non hicas craddle (or even s14,s15 Ive heard these are better)

r32 gts-t diff 4.38 ratio (use it just for crown wheel and pinon)

r32 gts-t brake setup (calipers, drum setup, hubs ,backing plates these are important as the drum setup mounts to this)

cable kit x japan or 33 cables

reuse your driveshafts, camber arms, toe arms, traction rods etc or get aftermarket items

the above setup is pretty much what I now have in my R32 Gts-t although I didnt have to worry about the cables

[mello88]

better off with a non hicas rear subframe i.e s13 with all the 32 gear bolted on

even if you lock the hicas with a bar Ive seen a number wear out the hicas ball joints on 32's a31's

swap to the r32/r33/a31 drum style handbrake just need to use 33 cables or you can buy kits x japan off yahoo

1. yep there the same (gts-t were talking about )

2. hmm not sure on this one r200 is r200 though so should be possible

3. yes I have a non abs R32 gts-t probably more non abs than abs around in gts-t's

4. if you use a gts-t craddle yes if you use a gtr craddle no the bottom mounts are different (there forked sorta)

my suggestion as above get

new s13 non hicas craddle (or even s14,s15 Ive heard these are better)

r32 gts-t diff 4.38 ratio (use it just for crown wheel and pinon)

r32 gts-t brake setup (calipers, drum setup, hubs ,backing plates these are important as the drum setup mounts to this)

cable kit x japan or 33 cables

reuse your driveshafts, camber arms, toe arms, traction rods etc or get aftermarket items

the above setup is pretty much what I now have in my R32 Gts-t although I didnt have to worry about the cables

Great reply, lots of good info!

I was thinking the hicas lock bar might be an issue...

Mostly wanted the 5 lug, brakes, 4.36 and complete rear as a unit. But you're right it would be easier to buy those bits separately and use the s13 cradle.

I have also heard the s14, s15 cradle are superior, but from my research a s14 cradle will not bolt to s13 without some fabrication. Do you know if this is the case for the s15 cradle?

thanks again!

[1400r]

not sure to be honest can't read Japanese which doesnt help but there are plenty of S13's running s15 rear craddles in

Japan see if you can find any info on the was rb26 Riverside onevia now 2jz

I got a Tengoku mag featuring his car clearly showing a s15 craddle in it

[DeclareYrWar]

s15 cradle is a bolt-in for s13 chasis

[BHDave]

To get the s15 subframe in an s13 properly you need custom offset bushes (which are available ex japan). But as stated above, it can be bolted up without them but you are depending on slack in the rubber bushes to do it and thats not good for alignment.

mello, it's pretty much a yes to all your questions, though you'd need to confirm that your current diff is an r200 and not an r180.

re the hicas vs non hicas subframe. if you lower the car with s13 subframe you will have to buy toe arms anyway which will flog out eventually. If you get a 32 one you will have to fork out for a lock bar and at some stage tierods. by the time you look at the cost of getting another s13 subframe, and an r32 diff and shafts and brakes separately and the toe arms, vs just buying an r32 subframe, a lock bar and a couple of tie rods it will probably work out around the same sort of money (atleast it would here as we have a lot of r32 stuff available).

It's the same old story, cheaper to buy an entire subframe than it is to buy all the bits separately.

[1400r]

I still wouldnt use the 32 subframe only steal the bits from it

Huddy flogged out two tie rod ends in two months before the swap it adds up very quickly

[BHDave]

Are you talking about tie rod ends or tie rods? Because there's only one person i know of thats done ends and thats t04gtr in his street/track gtr. The tie rods certainly wear out as they get old, replace them with new ones and they are good for another 150-200,000kms. the same can't be said of aftermarket toe arms

[1400r]

hicas tierod ends kept wearing out

[STATUS]

use your s13 hub carrier but fit the R32 hubs and brakes to it (r33 brake cables work best) see this link i did years ago. that way you can use S13 coilovers

http://www.nissansilvia.com/forums/index.p...;hl=5-stud+uras

stay cable with the handbrake and use URAS drum shoes form this guy in the US, http://www.uras-usa.com/index.php?main_page=index

i guarantee a better result than a hydraulic. here is some pics of the gear as i see he does not list them http://www.uras.com.au/syohin/brake.html if you get stuck we could probably send some over.

[mello88]

Well I want to thank all of you for your input, this thread has helped me a lot!

Turns out I found a local guy selling an entire s13 cradle, diff, axles and hubs for $50.. Too good of a deal to turn it down, so for now I'm sticking with s13 cradle. Perhaps on another car in the future I'll try the r32 setup.

URAS Interested to hear more about z32/r32 cable ebrakes vs hydraulic? I'm going Z32 ebrake for now but was planning to upgrade to a hydraulic setup in the future. Can you share some more details as to why the shoes are better than a hydraulic setup? Thank you!

[1400r]

Ive found that hydraulic has no feel to it as your not attached to the brakes in the same way you are with cable type

Im sure you would get use to it but I'd prefer to stick with what I'm use to

[mello88]

good input, I've never driven a car with a hydraulic ebrake. I just don't like how much effort is required to lock up the rear on the cables (and s13 calipers) but that probably has a lot more to do with the pads and calipers than anything. That's why I'm holding off on the ebrake until I see how I like the z32 setup, the drum/shoes are much larger and have a much bigger surface area than my s13 setup... Any other input on this topic is welcome!

[STATUS]

URAS Interested to hear more about z32/r32 cable ebrakes vs hydraulic? I'm going Z32 ebrake for now but was planning to upgrade to a hydraulic setup in the future. Can you share some more details as to why the shoes are better than a hydraulic setup? Thank you!

Z32 is the same as R33 (e-brake) so you wont have an issue providing you use the correct handbrake shoes. Decent cables are a good start as old stretched ones reduce effective adjustment. You get a very sharp engagement and it does not play with pedal feel and if set correctley uses very little driver effort to lock. we were actually the first car in australia to use hydraulic handbrakes in our driftcars but have since gone back to cable operated setups. (Cat has a hyraulic still as she sits to far forward to use the cable setup).

my old 180 had no issues locking 265 r-type tyres on 12" rims all day everyday.

[mello88]

Z32 is the same as R33 (e-brake) so you wont have an issue providing you use the correct handbrake shoes. Decent cables are a good start as old stretched ones reduce effective adjustment. You get a very sharp engagement and it does not play with pedal feel and if set correctley uses very little driver effort to lock. we were actually the first car in australia to use hydraulic handbrakes in our driftcars but have since gone back to cable operated setups. (Cat has a hyraulic still as she sits to far forward to use the cable setup).

my old 180 had no issues locking 265 r-type tyres on 12" rims all day everyday.

Where can I buy your shoes in the USA? online?

Can I ask what prompted the change back to cable setup?

Thanks for the info.