There Should Be An R35 Gt-t

[Amir]

There's too much of a gap between the infinti and the R35 GTR.

For most of us on this forum an inbetween version would suite us very well. Very few of us want an infiniti and most wont be able to afford an R35 GTR.

So I say Nissan, give us a 3.5/3.6/3.7 or a 3.8L single turbo version rear wheel drive.

[scathing]

The new GT-R is meant to be a supercar. That's one reason why they took it away from the "Skyline" range, so it can stand by itself. Building a shit version would just devalue the GT-R.

They should build a faster V36 Skyline, not a slower R35 GT-R.

[sh@un]

im quite sure that's what he meant

a turbo'd V36 would fit quite well in between the two price points

[scathing]

im quite sure that's what he meant

a turbo'd V36 would fit quite well in between the two price points

I dunno. He says he doesn't like "the Infiniti" (which is how the V35/V36 is badged in the US) and his subject line says he wants a pissweak "R35".

But yeah, a twin turbo V36 would do nicely. I did the numbers myself once. For Australia, we'll use the cost of the 350Z since we get that car officially imported.

$70K - 350Z Track model

$16K - APS Twin Turbo Kit (full ADR compliance, full turnkey solution) for 280rwkW

$1.5K - New Clutch

$2K - Torsen diff

$1K - Uprated oil cooler / power steering cooler

$5K - Wider lightweight forged rims

So, $95K all told. Practically half way between the NA 350Z and the GT-R's projected price.

The stock Brembos are "good enough" for street use with FI (no worse than the Touring brakes on the NA car) so they wouldn't "need" an upgrade, although it would be nice. Otherwise, a set of AP Racing 6pot/4pot brakes with 355mm rotors is $8K, which pushes it to just over $100K.

If you do specific suspension (say a different version of the $4K Bilstein option available for the regular Z), maybe $108K.

Bear in mind that the above costs for the aftermarket bits are all retail, so wholesale pricing for an international market would reduce that by a fair amount. It also doesn't remove the cost of not having to buy the NA items that are getting replaced, and the cost of the APS kit includes installation, which wouldn't be a factor if its factory fitted. You could conceivably build the car, which would have an OEM level of quality, reliability and NVH, for under $100K with the same profit margins.

The V36 G37 has already been favourably compared against the BMW E92 330. Build a twin turbo version, and it could carry the fight (or blitz) the 335.

The question is, who in Australia would buy a $100,000 Nissan? The GT-R has a nameplate, and $300,000+ rivalling performance. Conceivably a twin turbo V36 Skyline could be an M3 killer but it would struggle for mindshare against the bulletproof reputation of the M3, the class of the AMG, or the current kudos Audi is getting for their range and the RS4 is enhancing.

Edited November 3, 2007 by scathing

[Bliksem]

you need to remember that its going to be alot more difficult to single turbo a V6 aswell

[scathing]

you need to remember that its going to be alot more difficult to single turbo a V6 aswell

HKS has a single turbo kit for FM cars. Its really nice, actually. I got a drive of one a few months ago. Power delivery has turbo rush but its not too peaky. Feels like an otherwise OEM GTS-t / Silvia with an exhaust when its set up at 4psi, which nets 230rwkW .

Its a bit cheaper than the twins, and from what I've heard it'll make practically as much power if you're being "reasonable". The car I drove is up at around 260rwkW these days at 7psi. That's about 10rwkW down on the APS TT kit at the same boost, which isn't significant given the cost differences.

[Amir]

I dunno. He says he doesn't like "the Infiniti" (which is how the V35/V36 is badged in the US) and his subject line says he wants a pissweak "R35".

But yeah, a twin turbo V36 would do nicely. I did the numbers myself once. For Australia, we'll use the cost of the 350Z since we get that car officially imported.

$70K - 350Z Track model

$16K - APS Twin Turbo Kit (full ADR compliance, full turnkey solution) for 280rwkW

$1.5K - New Clutch

$2K - Torsen diff

$1K - Uprated oil cooler / power steering cooler

$5K - Wider lightweight forged rims

So, $95K all told. Practically half way between the NA 350Z and the GT-R's projected price.

The stock Brembos are "good enough" for street use with FI (no worse than the Touring brakes on the NA car) so they wouldn't "need" an upgrade, although it would be nice. Otherwise, a set of AP Racing 6pot/4pot brakes with 355mm rotors is $8K, which pushes it to just over $100K.

If you do specific suspension (say a different version of the $4K Bilstein option available for the regular Z), maybe $108K.

Bear in mind that the above costs for the aftermarket bits are all retail, so wholesale pricing for an international market would reduce that by a fair amount. It also doesn't remove the cost of not having to buy the NA items that are getting replaced, and the cost of the APS kit includes installation, which wouldn't be a factor if its factory fitted. You could conceivably build the car, which would have an OEM level of quality, reliability and NVH, for under $100K with the same profit margins.

The V36 G37 has already been favourably compared against the BMW E92 330. Build a twin turbo version, and it could carry the fight (or blitz) the 335.

The question is, who in Australia would buy a $100,000 Nissan? The GT-R has a nameplate, and $300,000+ rivalling performance. Conceivably a twin turbo V36 Skyline could be an M3 killer but it would struggle for mindshare against the bulletproof reputation of the M3, the class of the AMG, or the current kudos Audi is getting for their range and the RS4 is enhancing.

nah, not a piss-weak GTR, just a single turbo model using a 3.6L motor. The GTR is now very high league. The infiniti and 350z when turboed are still too expensive and not factory. Something inbetween from factory that fits into the R34 GTT category that we have now. 250kw and costs no more than 75K.

[scathing]

nah, not a piss-weak GTR, just a single turbo model using a 3.6L motor. The GTR is now very high league. The infiniti and 350z when turboed are still too expensive and not factory. Something inbetween from factory that fits into the R34 GTT category that we have now. 250kw and costs no more than 75K.

My question is, which body do you want this single turbo model to use? The V36 body, or the R35 body? If its the former, then the numbers I ran earlier are valid (and I didn't even include the cost of the custom bottom end required for the 3.6L displacement you're after, at least the VQ30 and VQ35 are shared across several platforms) and, in the grand scheme of things, not that expensive. If you're talking about using the R35 body then yes, it is a piss-weak GT-R wannabe and its that exact mindset of tarting up a povo Skyline coupe to make it look like a GT-R that Nissan would want to avoid with their new supercar.

A NA 350Z or V36 costs $70K. You want to get model with a turbo engine not shared with any other car, but presumably a similar spec level, for another $5K? Unfortunately Nissan doesn't have any other RWD platform aside from FM, so unless you're talking about sticking this engine into a povo-spec V36 Skyline (with cloth seats etc and the VQ30 or something) your numbers are a bit disconnected with reality.

And how is a car at $75K "bridge a gap in the market" between the $70K car and a $160K car you named in your first post?

[Amir]

My question is, which body do you want this single turbo model to use? The V36 body, or the R35 body? If its the former, then the numbers I ran earlier are valid (and I didn't even include the cost of the custom bottom end required for the 3.6L displacement you're after, at least the VQ30 and VQ35 are shared across several platforms) and, in the grand scheme of things, not that expensive. If you're talking about using the R35 body then yes, it is a piss-weak GT-R wannabe and its that exact mindset of tarting up a povo Skyline coupe to make it look like a GT-R that Nissan would want to avoid with their new supercar.

A NA 350Z or V36 costs $70K. You want to get model with a turbo engine not shared with any other car, but presumably a similar spec level, for another $5K? Unfortunately Nissan doesn't have any other RWD platform aside from FM, so unless you're talking about sticking this engine into a povo-spec V36 Skyline (with cloth seats etc and the VQ30 or something) your numbers are a bit disconnected with reality.

And how is a car at $75K "bridge a gap in the market" between the $70K car and a $160K car you named in your first post?

good points really. Didnt think of it as thoroughly as you did. I was it would use a similar looking r35 gtr (more basic, not as mean looking) shell with infiniti running gear. Youre right it could not be at 75K as I said. Probably 5-10K under ypur figure, so 85-90K

[Amir]

HKS has a single turbo kit for FM cars. Its really nice, actually. I got a drive of one a few months ago. Power delivery has turbo rush but its not too peaky. Feels like an otherwise OEM GTS-t / Silvia with an exhaust when its set up at 4psi, which nets 230rwkW .

Its a bit cheaper than the twins, and from what I've heard it'll make practically as much power if you're being "reasonable". The car I drove is up at around 260rwkW these days at 7psi. That's about 10rwkW down on the APS TT kit at the same boost, which isn't significant given the cost differences.

those kits are amazing. Cant believe the power increase from 4 to 7 psi. Phenomenal. It really sounds like no boost at all when I compare what Im running in the rex (24psi)

[N1GTR]

Should there be an R35 GTT?

No.

/thread

[eMsta]

perhaps nissan thought there is no need for a single turbo....why concentrate on a mid level sports car, when u can concentrate on the super car league

[brent32]

an R35 gtt would use the new body and lower power engine (still turbo) but without the 4wd attesa system. Of course this model would be japan only to keep all the "model has to stand by its self" people happy.

Then in five or so years we could start importing them ex japan.

Anyways last time nissan tried to sell GTRs in oz they struggled to sell 100 even after they totally dominated everthing in world touring car racing.

[N1GTR]

Anyways last time nissan tried to sell GTRs in oz they struggled to sell 100 even after they totally dominated everthing in world touring car racing.

..and this time they sold some before the buyers even knew the price, or delivery date

[scathing]

..and this time they sold some before the buyers even knew the price, or delivery date

What a difference about 20 years makes.

In 20 years from now people might actually queue up to buy a supercar made by.....Hyundai. Actually, better make it 40.

Edited November 3, 2007 by scathing

[scathing]

good points really. Didnt think of it as thoroughly as you did. I was it would use a similar looking r35 gtr (more basic, not as mean looking) shell with infiniti running gear. Youre right it could not be at 75K as I said. Probably 5-10K under ypur figure, so 85-90K

The problem is that it would "devalue" the car to a lot of people, especially since this one is going to an international market where these things matter. People who throw down AUD$150K on a supercar don't want it to look like a cheapo model unless they've got some emotional response to it, and as we know otherwise intelligent people influenced by emotions don't need a good reason to do anything. After all, its what leads successful Australian businessmen (which you'd think required a fair amount of intelligence) to buy HSVs (which you'd think required a fair lack of intelligence).

The GT-R, outside of Japan and Australia, doesn't generate that same emotional response among people who can afford to buy them so it needs visual exclusivity to add to the appeal.

The only exception to this, that I can think of, are the BMW M cars. You needed to be an anorak to pick the difference between the E36 M3 and a 318is or an E34 525i from the M5 but both were still highly desired. However, in response to customer complaints that the cars were too subtle, the E46 M3 and E39 M5 picked up more visual aggression but aside from the quad exhausts out the back you'd still need to know what you were looking for to split them. So, once again, the E92 M3 and E60 M5 have moved further away from their Q-Car roots and BMW has dialled up the exterior again to differentiate the M cars.

If BMW can't get away with it, I very much doubt Nissan can.

[scathing]

those kits are amazing. Cant believe the power increase from 4 to 7 psi. Phenomenal. It really sounds like no boost at all when I compare what Im running in the rex (24psi)

It comes in handy when you're blowing boost into an engine 1.5x as big and using a relatively big and efficient turbo.

My understanding is that the GT3037 will flow 2 bar without falling out of its efficiency range, so assuming you could build the engine and fuel system to support it this kit could run as much boost as you do. As it stands, the turbine's not even breaking a sweat.

Nissan should just source / copy the parts for this kit and sell it in a Z33 and/or V36. The intercooler's only half the width of the Z grille, so even with a small oil cooler it shouldn't cause any serious heat issues. And it would bring back a platform that Nissan traditionally does so well, the FR single turbo.

[funkymonkey]

V37 does like 350hp in stock form... that's a lot more than the old Skyline GTSt's. Back in the day Nissan had a gajillion cars with 5 parts differentiating them from each other. Its marketing suicide... which is why they ended up bankrupt, having to be bailed out by Renault.

Under new management there's gonna be defined breakups in the lineup so the different models don't overlap too much into each other's customer base. From a performance point of view... if you can' afford a GTR, your next best option is supposed to be a Z33 350Z.... after that if you want a "luxury spec" sports car... think IS300 style) then you got for the V35 350GT. If you want something cheaper get a 250GT. Cheaper than that you buy a March.

Making a single turbo lower capacity GT-R like in the old day is marketing suicide... I mean... look at the number of heroes on our roads in GTSt's with GTR badges... to the common commodore driver, we all look the same, even tho an R32 GTR in its hayday cost $120,000 and an R32 GTSt would have cost half that. You need exclusivity to make a car stand out... and with the amount of money riding on the new GT-R being a success you better hope it stands out like crazy.

[sh@un]

no problem there

with styling like that, it'll prolly cause crashes in Australia

[Laurence]

..and this time they sold some before the buyers even knew the price, or delivery date

You think they didn't do the same thing last time???