Intercooler able to cool intake air to ambient temp?

[lambo]

Hi all,

anyone measure their intake temp before? Can they ever reach ambient? Say 20degree ambient and 21 degree intake?

Are there any intercooler that can do that?

If there is such a intercooler. Will there be a big performance boost?

[Ronin 09]

No chance. Thermodynamics tells us that it is possible, buy in real life no - it is like having your cake and eating it too. PS yes i am an engineer.

[browny]

What about when using a water spray? That means you can start approaching the wet bulb temperature. This should theoretically be able cool it lower than the dry bulb temp (ie what is referred to as "ambient").

[predator]

liquid nitrogen cooled... lol

[Roy]

If you use water to air, you have a chance.

If you say get a 5L cylinder (put it in the boot) and place a spiral copper coil in it, and pack it with ice. Then with the water passing thru the copper tubing in the bucket as well as the heat exchanger in the front bar, you can get great effeciency out of a water to air for dyno runs or 1/.4 mile runs.

Plus you are able to run an extremely short inlet tract, as little as 250mm long for improved throttle response.

...oh and never listen to engineers, they know just enough to be dangerous:D (especially mechanical)

[R31_IceMan]

Well i disagree with the engineer even though my dad has been for over 35yrs. you can and i have seen it.

a mate R31 turboed with HKS coller 600x300x75 and HPC coated piping normally has the intake temp at 18deg. and this was on a 27deg day. you should see what its like when we were pushing the car in a 9deg night the intake side said 4deg.

now you think how does he know its right. well its running a Wolf and the programer from wolf thought the temp sensor was broken so he replaced to find the same result. HPC coated piping rocks and gets insane results like this.

cheers Dave

[predator]

To be honest I don't get that.. How can the air pass through the engine which is internally very hot, be combusted, and come out the otherside actually colder than it went in?

Also, as air is compressed it heats, simple physics, there probably is a formula attached too.

[browny]

There is probably a good explanation about why it is happening. Whatever the explantions is tho - it wont be defying the second law of thermodynamics.

Where is the ambient temp measured?

Where is the intake temp measured?

[R31_IceMan]

Predator, were not talking about it going through the engine. the air that is compressed had no contact with air that is from the engine. and yes there is a formula but there is not point telling anyone cause it will just look like letters to everyone.

as for my mates cooler i have no idea how the **** it works. all i know is that if i had the money i'll HPC coat everything that i could

Dave

[browny]

HPC is just an insulator - all that means is that the pipework wont heat up and increase the temperature of the charge air.

Where are the temperature sensors located?

[Ronin 09]

Let me qualify my response - i was talking about no water cooling, liquid nitrogen, dry ice etc etc. The velocity that the air passes through an air to air intercooler means that there is no way that the intercooler can heat xfer fast enough to get down to ambient. PS yes i like to break stuff

[R31_IceMan]

Break stuff or not this does work and its working at 21psi.

and the temp sensor is located on the intake pipe above the rocker cover.

if HPC coating is just insulating stuff how come its used on drag cars, military aircraft, race cars, space ships and it does a little more than insulate. it lets out heat but not letting heat in.

Dave

[browny]

Ronin 09 - I guess the other qualification you need is that the intercooler has to be small enough to fit into the car as well

ok HPC used as a broad group of products does not just insulate stuff. There are different of coatings which are designed serve different applications, ie

* Insulation

* Corrosion protection

* Reduce friction

* Retain oil

* Shed oil

* Look nice

In intercooler pipework applications, the coating prevents the (relatively) hot engine bay from transferring heat to the cooler charge air by acting as an insulator.

So the temperature sensor you are calling ambient is not measured at a point external to the car?

[R31_IceMan]

The external temp sensor is sitting outside of the car whilst the post intercooler temp sensor is sitting on the intake pipe between the cooler and the t/b and above the rocker cover.

dave

[browny]

So it is measuring the temperature of the outside of the pipe - not the charge air itself?

[R31_IceMan]

So it measuring the ambient temp and that is what is going into the turbo or a little hotter and what the temp is when it gets just before the t/b. and just as the original post asks it is taking the ambient temp and making the compressed air colder than the ambient.

[browny]

If the temperature sensor is mounted on the outside of the pipe this may not represent the temperature of the charge air accurately, especially since the pipe is HPC coated (ie insulated).

[Roy]

Sorry R31_IceMan have a chat to your dad, what your saying is impossible.

A more likely explanation of what you friend is witnessing is that he is using a cheap thermocouple, Tandy or something that is out of calibration.

Do me a favour and submerge the intrument he is using to get inlet temps in a beaker of warm water, and then cold water. Check its readings with an accurate thermometer (get one from the Chemist)

My money is on the fact that the instrument he is using to read inlet temps is way off.

Also as browny said, the HPC coated pipes external temp will differ quite an amount from the internal air stream temp.

[Belly_up]

If we are talking about an air to air intercooler, then it is physically impossible for the post intercooler air, to be at ambient temperature, unless the turbo is in backwards and is decompressing the air. No air to air intercooler is 100% efficient, so it can't happen.

[Ronin 09]

Thank you.