How can I get 50rwhp more?

[MRK25T]

I would like 50rwhp more out of my s2 R33 gtst and would like suggestions on how to achieve it.

I was thinking custom exhaust manifold + plenum like what Brendan had done to his car. One mechanic said it would cost me about $5k.

Currently I have 3" exhaust from turbo back, POD without air box, high flowed turbo, hiflow cat, EBC set at 0.8bar achieving 252rwhp, heavy duty clutch, fuel pump, adj regulator, powerFC, adj cam gear and I think that is about it.

Mark

[benm]

You have all those mods and only on 188rwkw ? (If my calculations are correct)

With those mods I would be -expecting- around 240rwkw -atleast- (probably need injectors).

I suggest you try a different tuner because something is deffinetly up !!

FYI im currently on 203rwkw (shootout mode) and 188rwkw (standard mode) with only:

12 PSI

FMIC

HKS Pod Filter (unboxed)

Full 3" Exhaust

Std ECU

Std Turbo

[T0nyGTSt]

Ben, yours is prob. an exceptional example.

At Premiere, the avg. 33 was getting 140-150kW. And they were all reasonably modded.

You need an FMIC really, plenum is a toy but nice.

Mark, I'm interested in a Greddy plenum as well. I need to talk next meetup...

T.

[RS500]

i'd definitely go for a nice FMIC (GTR core is good) as this would free up the already restricted air-flow from the hi-flow turbo and allow for a cooler charge which would also increase horsepower.

[Steve]

Definately get a decent front mount.

I have EBC, cooler, power fc, and full exhaust and put down just over 200 with stock turbo (at 0.85 bar) and stock fuel system (injectors hitting about 83%)

The change to the car when I put the cooler on was quite dramatic, well worth while.

The stock cooler according to http://www.horsepowerinabox.com/mall/ic07.asp quotes a Zoom test stating the stock cooler has a 7 psi drop at 7000rpm.

edit, the 200 I get is not in shootout mode.

[predator]

benm.... ahhh.. the real truth is revealed..shootout mode you're the same of the rest of us here in VIC getting 185rwkw or so non-shootout.. and you have the 95 ECU which gives better ratios so you don't need the S-AFC like we do

...MRK25T with that highflow and powerFC you should getting a lot more than that.. do you have an FMIC? I'd assume you would? otherwise simple answer: that is what is holding you back

[RS500]

after fitting the intercooler, maybe you should consider getting the Power-FC re-tuned with someone else as the power sounds a bit low for what you have on the car

what spec's is your hi-flow turbo anyway?

these days, 'hi-flow' is a very very broad term.

[rev210]

I got the 95ecu. I definately need the S-AFC.

Why don't you rebuild your engine. It's probably down 50hp or so from being worn.

Most people don't take into account that their base engine is going to be a fair whack down on power after 100,000kms so mods to it is like playing 'catch up'.

[Blitz]

Guys MRK25T has forgotten to mention he has a front mount.

Mark: You could get 200rwkw with the standard turbo so how you are only putting out 188rwkw is cause for concern.

Who tuned your car? Might be worth a trip down to CRD for a proper tune

[MRK25T]

Oops.

As Nick said, I have a FMIC already.

rev210, what does a rebuild cost and what do they do?

Tony, what do they cost (the greddy plenum)?

nick/ben/etc. I might go to a dyno day with you guys so we can compare apples with apples. I dont think i've had it poorly tuned but this is my first quick car so have nothing to compare it against.

Coming home from work tonight I blew away a hatchback style wrx with an exhaust without effort - is that normal for skylines?

Mark

[Cubes]

Yer the WRX's are pretty slow when up and running with the standard turbo's.

Stock they make under 100rwkw around 90rwkw if I remember correctly. They do weigh less but not that much.

[rev210]

MRK25T,

I'm not serious about the rebuild as an option, costs a fair bit. I'm trying to point out to others that engine wear takes it's share of the base power over time.

Seriously don't worry about the dyno stuff mate. The track performance is what matters. A stock R33 turbo line can only expect about 300hp at the flywheel if it's lucky and with a brand new engine. I've had a few people suggest that their 200rwkw means 350HP at the flywheel or so, they are ill informed. None of them have 1/4 mile evidence of this power either.

right now I reckon I'm under 300HP at the motor, best condition of tune it's ever had and alot quicker than any other stock R33 turbo line I've ever come across or driven. My engine has over 100,000kms on it.

So use that dyno you go to and as long as the tune your doing on it works out a little extra each time then you can be happy.

You might find that high flow turbo you got needs over 1 bar to work well also (verify this with the turbo builder). For instance the HKS units are generally rated at 1bar and go a little higher.

[rev210]

as something of interest for those who incorrectly try to compare dyno's to determine performance.

I ran 13.3@106mph with a 2.3 60ft, with an effective power band of around 4500rpm. Straight after I had it on the dyno ,not to look at my 'power' but rather determine a problem and it showed 230rwhp odd at 4500rpm. To tell the truth I doubt very much that I was at the time making too much more than that at the flywheel in total. The very strong torque band I had tuned into the car enabled the time.

so there you go. I had a whole 230rwhp(not that it matters) and did a 13.3. Perhaps people telling you that 250rwhp is too low should start addressing my quite obviously slow 1/4 time as well?

[MM2death]

Originally posted by Steve

The stock cooler according to http://www.horsepowerinabox.com/mall/ic07.asp quotes a Zoom test stating the stock cooler has a 7 psi drop at 7000rpm.

Is this true? So if i'm running 13psi (plenum) with the stocko cooler, then my turbo is running 18+?

Farrkkk....

Regards,

Scott.

[MM2death]

Are the 32 coolers as bad or worse than 33?

[Cubes]

The same MM2deat...

[Cool Hand Luke]

I doubt that you will get a 7psi gain in boost. When i changed my cooler to a PWR tube and fin with custom end tanks i picked up around 1.5psi, i think that the big gain is intake temps and the fact the turbo doesnt have to work as hard.

[Cubes]

Luke you wont gain 7psi of boost because the wastegate controls the boost.

What it means is that for the plenum to see 10psi the turbo has to push maybe 13psi in the higher rev range due to the restriction of the stock cooler.

When that restriction is removed the car will still run 10psi just the turbo won't have to push 13psi to see 10psi at the plenum. Hence the air won't be as hot in turn you should pick up a little bit of power, it will be more noticable on warmer days.

Remember its not boost that makes power it is airflow.

[Steve]

Originally posted by rev210

....Seriously don't worry about the dyno stuff mate.....

Rev210, I am seriously concerned about your obsession with dynos

Alot of people agree that dyno doesnt mean a heap, when compared to actual performance. And the peak dyno figure means even less.

But, a dyno is one way to roughly compare power figures, and can assist with trying to determine if a car is performing near its optimum.

You talk of times, but they are not the be all and end all when you are trying to compare output of vehicles, as there is a much greater fudge factor that needs to be applied- ie driver experience, suspension, tyres etc - all adds up to alot more than the variation between dynos.

How many people can't except that you have been able to achieve the times you posted, because they have similar mods and can get no where near those times, or worse still, much more heavily modified and still cant match you times. How then would it be possible to rate the efficiency of the modifications, as you are not comparing apples and apples. Would you have seriously ever bought a skyline if someone told you, you could do a full exhaust, FMIC, management, wider wheels, and if you are lucky you will drop the time from 14.4(rated by factory) to 14 flat (what some people with these mods acheive)?

It would be like trying to compare a car driven by me, compared with the same car driven by peter brock around a circuit - chalk and cheese - and the figures would mean absolutely stuff all with regards to the perormance of the car.

Then there is the problem that alot of people dont want to take their car down the strip - and why should they if they dont want to? Should these people then just mod the car, not knowing what to expect (ie actual kw gain), or if the money they have spent is wisely spent, or if there may be a problem somewhere else, and where it may be? Not every one has the luxury of past experience, and an idea of what to expect, and then if that expectation is not met - investigating the cause and hopefully rectifying the problem - its alot like modding a car and then trying to squeeze everything out of that mod at the strip until you have milked it for all its worth, then do the next thing - just not on a strip, on a dyno. Even top drag cars use dynos for this, prior to putting the car down the 1/4.

Bottom line, while dynos are not perfect, their is not much else that can be used to compare apples with apples, unless of course you have another suggestion, and I missed the point of what appears to be an obsession against using dyno figures ever?

[Cubes]

Rev210.. So have you had u'r car on the dyno?