Turbo Current Engine, Put In A Turbo Engine Or Sell And Buy A Turbo One?

[J3TR33]

hey guys, i currently have a series 2 R33 Skyline. Iv had it for about a year, and have done the sound system and things like that. But its time for more power. I am considering either turboing my current engine, getting a rb25det engine and doing a transplant or sell my car and buy turbo one. The thing that i am considering is which one is gona cost me less, i want to keep the loss at a minimum.

I have read all the topics about how to turbo a skyline, i'v read DAN666 topic as well but im still in 3 minds lol if it makes sence.

So if you guys can let me know whats best for money and performance wise. The car is in awesome condition and if i sell it considering its non turbo and auto i know i wont get no way as much as i bought it for.

How much is a rb25det engine going for?

How reliable is the engine when just putting a turbo on it? I know the compression ratio will have to be reduced if i run high boost.

all opinions considered

Edited December 6, 2007 by J3TR33

[krzysiu]

Cheapest way? Sell it and buy a turbo.

[Hillzy]

^^ agreed

[stolen_s15]

Sell it, buy turbo. Case Closed.

[GTS4WD]

Sell and buy.. because for a DE+T you need:

(this is off the top of my head and very rough estimates.. Im sure I missed out on a few things)

ECU ~$200 R33 Turbo Auto

Turbo pistons Pistons (to get the compression ratio right).. ~$300 (???) (for a second hand DET pistons)

Turbo ~$200 (for a second hand R33 turbo)

Turbo manifold ~$100

You may need a new AFM ~$150 Rb25DET

You may need a fuel pump ~$200 Boch 044

You may need new injectors ~$200 for DET items

Labour ~$500 - at least

So a rough total: ~$1850

So yeah.. its the rough price of a Rb25DET.. hunt around and you do find bargins now and again with engins needing cheap repairs. There are also cheap examples floating around.

Shoot H@ME a pm and ask him. He just baught a front cut and just completed his RB25DET conversion..

Thats the thread:

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/t174698.html

[SKiT_R31]

pfft, im gonna go against the grain here,

Turbo your current motor.

I have seen it done, without internal modifications etc, and it is much easier than an engine conversion.

All you have to do is;

get an RB25DET ECU, plug it in

Get 370cc injectors, plug them in

Get a manifold and highflow turbo (stock 33 will run out of puff very quickly) bolt them on + Dump

oil and water lines, your engine already has the provisions, just bolt them on

FMIC & Piping

DONE! that is ALL you need to do, things like dump/exhaust, fmic etc you would have to do anyway, and the rest are easy as piss, fitting a manifold and turbo, fitting injectors, plugging in an ecu...

because of the extra 1pt compression the turbo will spool quicker and make more power off less boost, running anywhere from stock to ~ 10psi is ideal (after that the good old ecu goes R&R) There is no detonation issues, with 95 or 98 petrol.

The RB25DE+T i saw got 210RWKW @ 9.5PSI, highflow R33 Turbo, 3" exhaust, FMIC, std 25det ecu (no piggy back), and the a/f mixes were bloody SPOT ON.

and it was definately one of the more responsive turbo cars ive been in, plenty of power. Combine that with a SAFC, FPR and an Adj cam gear to get setup on the dyno and you'll be a happy chappy.

My mate used the stock fuel pump to get that power, but laster upgraded, which i would also recomend

imo all that shit is MUCH easier than buying a turbo engine and putting it in, you could do it in a day, and would cost less than $1000 (not inc fmic) AND you know the condition of your current motor, you wont risk a lemon etc,

Edited November 8, 2007 by SKiT_R31

[SKiT_R31]

You dont need a new afm, 25DE works fine

and injectors $200? nah, i picked mine up for $25 with a rail! no one wants them, as people only upgrade

Edited November 8, 2007 by SKiT_R31

[Eug]

i'm going to agree with skit_r31 here. if you have half a mind - turbo'ing the current motor will be cheaper.

and plus, you would have done other mods to the car as well... it'd probably work out more expensive to sell the car with your coilovers, bodykit, stereo (all of which you'd lose money on) - only to buy them again for your new car.

[inthisglass]

Turboing the current motor would be cheaper but i was always under the impression that alot of the N/a components were not tough enough to handle the huge increase in power.

For example

- stock internals arent as strong as the Turbo modle ones

- the breaking department needs to be upgraded

- your compression ratio could be all out of wack and would take a lot of tuning to get the car running nicely

- the N/a diff isnt strong enough for turbo power levels

I could be wrong but after upgrading all these parts to turbo spec your going to be looking at a few $$

It always comes down to how much you love your current car and how much money your willin to spend on it.

[J3TR33]

pfft, im gonna go against the grain here,

Hey ppl,

Its good to hear different opinions. I want to keep my options opened. I dont want to go the easy way out and sell my car, but in the end if it comes to that then it has to be done.

Getting parts wont be a problem if i was going to go with the option of turboing my current engine, but getting someone to install everything is gona be a pain. I live in Melbourne, and got in touch with Rajab racing but they are not interested in doing it.

Might have to go searching for a few places in Melbourne to see if they will do it.

How hard is it to install all the parts? I wouldnt have a clue, but a few of my mates might, and if i got them together for a weekend might be able to do it.

If anyone has any more information on the best way to turbo my current engine and any recomendations please let me know.

Thanks,

Edited December 1, 2007 by J3TR33

[MBS206]

Turboing the current motor would be cheaper but i was always under the impression that alot of the N/a components were not tough enough to handle the huge increase in power.

For example

- stock internals arent as strong as the Turbo modle ones

- the breaking department needs to be upgraded

- your compression ratio could be all out of wack and would take a lot of tuning to get the car running nicely

- the N/a diff isnt strong enough for turbo power levels

I could be wrong but after upgrading all these parts to turbo spec your going to be looking at a few $$

It always comes down to how much you love your current car and how much money your willin to spend on it.

As a factory turbo owner you'll want to upgrade the turbos diff anyway. They just single leg too much at this age.

Compression ratio, only a slight change from what I've seen, nothing to worry about.

On the N/A engine, keep boost around 7PSi on a free flowing exhaust, other wise you WILL hit R&R and ONLY run it on 98 fuel. GTS-t HATE 95 fuel (Experience here)

Braking department, it's a good opportunity to upgrade anyway.

Stock internals should hold easily with just stock /high flow on the side.

Longevity of a DE+T will all be about driver abuse. At the end of the day, rebuild it, and it'll be just as tough as a fully built DET

Edit: My opinion, keep the R33S2 GTS for a daily run around. Go and buy an R33 S1/2 GTS-t for cheap as, keep it as a weekend car.

The price that you pay for them now is basically nothing. Might as well get both. Then when the performer dies, you've still got a good daily.

Edited November 9, 2007 by MBS206

[Sandeep]

if you're car has sentimental value or your mods are unique then i'd keep it and do the turbo swap. if your car doesn't have that much sentimental value to you or your mods can be transferred over to the turbo car, then buy the gtst and swap your mods over.

i'm most probably going to keep my NA 300 and build up a tt motor to swap in once i'm off my p's and can afford the upkeep on a turbo car. my zed's got sentimental value (first car), plus i've put too much money into it and won't get much back so i'd rather keep it.

[Eug]

Longevity of a DE+T will all be about driver abuse.

sorry, i'm going to partly disagree here. TUNE!

i've put too much money into it and won't get much back so i'd rather keep it.

exactly... by the time you do all the maths in selling the gts and buying the gtst, then bringing it back up to the same level of mods - you're still at square 1 with a motor with an unknown history and a potential rebuild anyway.

[J3TR33]

sorry, i'm going to partly disagree here. TUNE!

exactly... by the time you do all the maths in selling the gts and buying the gtst, then bringing it back up to the same level of mods - you're still at square 1 with a motor with an unknown history and a potential rebuild anyway.

yeh kinda agree with Eug here... the car has been very good to me so far, have had it for more than a year and still no probz what so ever... was bought from a quality dealer so paid a premium price... id be loosing way too much to sell it...

so decision time: most likely i will go with turboing my current engine... as i know exactly how it is running now and if i do have troubles with it later on can always go with a rebuilt or get rb25det.

as for an engine transplant... i know it will cost me more than 3k with motor and installation... so this is kinda stretching my budget... still an option if i find a good cheap motor...

for the time being... i jst want the extra power and dont want huge amount of power so i think i will stick to the 8-10 Psi if i get it turboed..

Wats next: well it looks like i might have to start shopping for the parts... can someone provide me with the exact list of parts needed and rough price....

thanks SkitR31 for your opinion but can you provide me with the exact parts needed and rough price.. and what may or may not be needed to get upgraded...

Cheers guys....thanks for your opinions... will keep posted

[GTS4WD]

I would say if your doing the work yourself.. go DE+T

It crossed my mind for a while to go High comp turbo..

but high pomp NA seems more sexy..

[unarmed_skyline]

de+t anyday thats coming from me who's done it, pretty easy to do yourself just make sure u research it properly otherwise u will spend big dollars fixing what u could have done right easily.

I've drive quite a few diffrent powered skylines na's and turbos and my de+t is so much more fun than any of the more powerfull ones i've driven.

i would suggest minimum needed is turbo/exhaust water lines and oil lines. Ecu turbo one ppl say is fine i chose aftermarket, fuel pump, crossover pipe with bov, either fpr or injectors and cooler, all stock items will do fine and can be picked up cheap

Have seen all above parts go as pakage for around 1K if u search then upgrade as necessecary when you want like a turbo car.

For that kinda outlay i dont think it quilifyes the stuff around of sell and buying a gtst

pm me if you need any help im more than happy to provied any info of how i did mine,

[J3TR33]

hey people just an update,

iv decided im gona go with turboing my current engine...

iv been convinced its the best option for me out of the three and like the sound of having a high comp turbo set up...

iv started looking for some parts

so if anyone has any parts read my post on wanted to buy section or just read through this thread and let me know if you have any parts..

hopefully once i get all the parts together i get a hand from you guys on how install everything and tuning it properly, thats if anyone is happy and willing to help...

well cheers everyone for your opnions will keep posted and hopefully not too far away il have a DE+T :)

[unarmed_skyline]

Congrats on the descision you wont regret it

[Al]

OK i'm going to sound like an a'hole but it must be said.

The amount of money/mods on that car is very minimal (if any), also that audio gear does not appear to be a "custom install", so you'll be able to pull it out and transfer it to another car within minutes. It appears to be a clean car, but if you paid too much for it, it doesn't mean it's in the best conditioned R33 in VIC. I have seen ALOT of 33's in my time, ranging from clean to rough and each category have their own ranges in prices. Look hard enough, and you'll find a clean GTST for a reasonable price; time is your friend.

Have you thought of the legalities of turboing your car? If a cop pulls you over and knows a bit about imports (there are a few out there) then you're farked, as you'll need to get the mods engineered, which will involve fitting all the factory GTST parts and alot more $$$$$$'s.

You also commented: "for the time being... i jst want the extra power and dont want huge amount of power so i think i will stick to the 8-10 Psi if i get it turboed.."

So what happens when you want a little more power?

You can't increase boost; comp too high. Will you throw all that money away and then get a GTST and start again? Will you do a dodgey and fit a metal head gasket in an attempt to lower compression?

At this stage GTS's are holding their value pretty well, due to the new P-plate laws, and GTST's have already come down in price alot. Look at the long term gain and assess your objectives. You want more power now, what about in another year? Allow yourself to upgrade further, rather than being stuck with 8psi max.

Also; if you turbo the car and decided to sell it, at a later stage, most people would not even touch an NA car with a turbo slap job. You'll also probably get hassled when try to get a RWC.

Just trying to show you other problems that may arise from such a "simple" upgrade.

[J3TR33]

yeh it criticism doesnt bother me... you come buy my car for 13k and then il go buy a GTSt... caus ppl think oh yeh sell the car and buy another one... without actually thinking how hard it will be to sell an auto GTS... so if anyone can find me a buyer il be more than happy to sell and buy a gtst..

why do i need a custom job for it to be expensive... the whole thing cost me over 1.5k with dvd player and tv inside..

and as for the price of the car... it was bought for 15k with all onroads and registration... im already loosing alot of money on it...

the way i see it... is il have a car that i already like with more power... and if something does f*k up at least il say i tried...

and as for cops... once i get pulled over and get a defect for it il just pull all the parts out and keep it an NA engine...

i dont want to be another r33t driver... this way il be driving something different...

yeh once i need more power then il think of something... and as for the compression, il keep it high comp for a bit and have the fun and then il upgrade it to make it lower compression...

bt thanks for raising the problems... it has made me think more but hasnt budged my decision...