High Flowing A Turbo

[stasis]

FRP?

As for motor limit, same as everyone else mate. 300-330rwkw depending on condition.

opps soz i meant fuel pressure regulator.

Motor condition is good. When i got the car its done 60k and its dead stock. Not even an exhaust system.

[R31Nismoid]

Dont need 800cc

And dont need FPR

Nismo 550's are bolt in, and you use the stock reg.

[stasis]

im thinking lon term too. If holden decides to put out a smoking HSV with 400kw we can let the HSV smoke me right? So get the biggest injectors and when i want to use its there dont need to waste 2x the $$

[-_-StRyDeR-_-]

its called power to weight ratio mate... sure the HSV has 400kw(thats at the fly)... and your car makes 320 (At the wheels!!) your car still weighs alot less!! and you got AWD.

if any HSV beats you, you should be ashamed haha.

Edited November 17, 2007 by -_-StRyDeR-_-

[wolverine]

im thinking lon term too. If holden decides to put out a smoking HSV with 400kw we can let the HSV smoke me right? So get the biggest injectors and when i want to use its there dont need to waste 2x the $$

bigger isn't better. buy something appropriately sized. ie. listen to what you are being told by those that KNOW what they are talking about.

800cc is good for 800hp @ the flywheel. when you rebuild your engine to cope, a new set of injectors will be the least of your worries.

[Bumblebee]

800cc = 800hp?? damn how incorrect is that...

standard GTR injectors r what... 444cc?? so it has a max output of 444hp @ fly? lol ok champ no worries

sit down b4 u hurt urself

[stasis]

OK i will settel for a smaller injectors. A 555cc is enough? What capacity are the 555cc injectors working at if im pumping out say 320kw@wheels which is roughly 390kw@craml? I never like to max out a capacity of an equipment. I like to leave it at 80% capacity instead of having to work out max.

But i think now i will go for the 2860R -5. Should this be sufficient to make 320kw@wheels? And will the 555cc injectors match the turbos?

Im also confused between the terms GTSS and 2860R-5. Im presuming that the power output is fairly similar? And "GTSS" is just a garret turbo market. The euilvalent to the "GTSS" is the 2860R -5? Theres about A$800 difference between the 2turbos. Is it worth it to buy the Hks "GTSS"? Or just get the 2860R -5? Thanks guys for the input. What would i do without you guys.

[wolverine]

800cc = 800hp?? damn how incorrect is that...

standard GTR injectors r what... 444cc?? so it has a max output of 444hp @ fly? lol ok champ no worries

sit down b4 u hurt urself

yeah chuckles that's right allowing about 85% duty cycle at standard rail pressure.

are you saying higher or lower?

Edited November 18, 2007 by wolverine

[Bumblebee]

im sayin higher.. but its also dependant on the engine type and tuning.

My car atm is makin around 390hp @ 4 wheels... which is higher than 444hp @ fly.. MUCH higher.. drive train loss will be atleast 100hp on a conservative 25% loss.. it will be higher, but say its not. that puts the injectors @ 490hp flow and theyre not @ 85% yet. i think they were sittin @ 80? cant remember too well but it wasnt that high. I thikn i can get another 40hpish outta the injectors b4 i start runnin into duty cycle problems.

But depends on engine.. my last car was an rx7. i ran 4x 1600cc injectors.. ill be damnd if they could supply enough fuel for 1600hp lol... i think that one was makin around 700hp @ fly with injectors @ around 90%

as for losing 70kw over a 4wd system which using hydraulics to transfer torque to the front.. ur dreamin buddy.. 320 @ wheels is well over 450kw @ crank

Edited November 18, 2007 by Bumblebee

[R31Nismoid]

im thinking lon term too. If holden decides to put out a smoking HSV with 400kw we can let the HSV smoke me right? So get the biggest injectors and when i want to use its there dont need to waste 2x the $$

Yeah, but then you'd need to change turbo's, build a motor, etc etc. So basically another 15k

So if you dont really plan on that then 550's will be ample for the task at hand.

800cc = 800hp?? damn how incorrect is that...

Not incorrect at all, read the next section of this post.

im sayin higher.. but its also dependant on the engine type and tuning.

My car atm is makin around 390hp @ 4 wheels... which is higher than 444hp @ fly.. MUCH higher.. drive train loss will be atleast 100hp on a conservative 25% loss.. it will be higher, but say its not. that puts the injectors @ 490hp flow and theyre not @ 85% yet. i think they were sittin @ 80? cant remember too well but it wasnt that high. I thikn i can get another 40hpish outta the injectors b4 i start runnin into duty cycle problems.

But depends on engine.. my last car was an rx7. i ran 4x 1600cc injectors.. ill be damnd if they could supply enough fuel for 1600hp lol... i think that one was makin around 700hp @ fly with injectors @ around 90%

as for losing 70kw over a 4wd system which using hydraulics to transfer torque to the front.. ur dreamin buddy.. 320 @ wheels is well over 450kw @ crank

You dont get 25% drivetrain loss, what are you on about mate?

I think someone has been feeding you some wrong information.

320rwkw is NOT 'well over' 450kw @ the crank. Not even close, your honestly beyond wrong on that.

Its probably closer to 380-390kw @ the crank or there abouts.

In a 6 cylinder motor, its pretty basic for injectors. 550cc = 550hp for the sake of the point.

Yes its not an "exact" calculation, but its near enough for what we need to discuss.

Obviously you can 'squeeze' more out of the injectors if you bump the rail pressure, but im keeping it simple as there isn't a need for that detail here.

[R31Nismoid]

Im also confused between the terms GTSS and 2860R-5. Im presuming that the power output is fairly similar? And "GTSS" is just a garret turbo market. The euilvalent to the "GTSS" is the 2860R -5? Theres about A$800 difference between the 2turbos. Is it worth it to buy the Hks "GTSS"? Or just get the 2860R -5? Thanks guys for the input. What would i do without you guys.

Garretts come with just the turbos.

HKS come in a kit with all the parts.

By the time you purchase all the things like gaskets, washers and so on.

The actual difference in price is only as few hundred as GT-SS for the RB26 are cheap due to the good Yen price at the moment.

So its upto you for that as the price really isnt that much different. Maybe $400 at the end of the day (rough stab)

[Bumblebee]

25% incorrect? ROFL ok champ

a RWD car loses between 20-30% power through the drivetrain and axles from the crank.. from crank it goes into flywheel, clutch, gears, tail shaft, diff then axles

the industry NORM is 20-30%

Thats RWD

a AWD loses a shitload more then that. Its not wrong info. its facts. a 300kw rwd car makes about 210-220rwkw. Thats a lose of roughly 80kw. And thats from going from engine dyno.. to a chassis dyno. thats higher than 20%

a FWD car which makes roughyl 140kw @ crank, makes roughly 100-105kw @ wheels.. thats more than 20%

If u think the losses on an AWD car which uses a pump thats virtually the same as an automatic torque converter loses LESS.. ur a dreamer in ur own right.

[R31Nismoid]

How about then you go do some testing please?

GTR RWD to AWD - minimal difference in power loss, and its been seen time and time again by people who drop the front shaft. Do a few runs, then put the shaft back in and do a few runs.

I realise you semi-new here so you've probably missed the dozen threads on it.

ATTESSA doesn't transfer power if it has traction at the rear. Do you not even understand how the car works or what?

To say 320rwkw is MUCH MORE than 450kw @ the fly is wrong. That makes it at over 600hp, and that's rubbish.

[R31Nismoid]

Here are a few threads for you to read over. So good debate in all threads... and some clearly wrong posts as well, but that's half the fun

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/Fu...mp;hl=injectors

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/70...drivetrain+loss

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/25...drivetrain+loss

[Bumblebee]

it wasnt supposed to be 320rwkw... it was meant to be 320awkw.. and u dont lose much power goin from rwd to awd?

so why is it.. i cant crack 300kw in awd.. but in rwd i can easily crack 300kw? not much difference?? no worries CHAMP

im a mechanic and i know exactly how the transfer case works on the GTR and any other car on this planet, given that i have seen it.

on a DYNO the GTR will put power to the front hweels because.. it "slips" the rears.. on a dyno.. the rears move and the fronts dont.. the comp see's loss of traction and engages the front.

sorry dude.. but i seen the dyno figures over and over and over again and i cbf arguing with u or u internet buddies.

u will always lose power going from rwd/fwd to awd

[R31Nismoid]

So where did the 600hp+ argument go all of a sudden, no mention of it in your post? (conveniently)

After all, that is the main issue here that you think 320kw @ the wheels is well over 600hp @ the fly.

[GTRgeoff]

Anyway, back on topic......

With advances in turbo technology the makers have also moved toward a longer life bearing, that of the ball bearing. While there may be some evidence that a BB will spool faster, I consider that is due to the improved geometry in the modern turbos running BB. I'm yet to see any real testing that proves that exactly the same turbos except with journal or BB would be very different. In fact, the journal, running perfectly is only riding on a film of oil, while a BB has to also accelerate the bearings at a greater radius, and so would by every engineering principle be slower to spool if everything else was equal.

Given that cheaper highflows aren't as economical as they used to be when Slide did them I would Highly recommend the GTSS or 2860 setup.

Also common practice is to assume between 25-30% losses through drivetrain and tyres on a dyno unless it is a direct connection to the hubs, such as Dynapack.

No sense arguing with Ash, he only repeats what others say, although he is an authority on prices, especially for others doing the work, so worth listening there.

[wolverine]

But depends on engine.. my last car was an rx7. i ran 4x 1600cc injectors.. ill be damnd if they could supply enough fuel for 1600hp lol.

and

im a mechanic

as a mechanic you should know better that the number of cylinders is an important difference when talking about injectors (and rail pressure).

back on topic, 800cc injectors are overkill for this application and smaller injectors should be a better choice. i'm sure bumblebee can help get the correct size for you.

[stasis]

if i get the Gtss and down the road i blow them can i get them rebuild with the same specifications?

[stasis]

a;so wat the next step of upgrade after GTSS? or is it just a matter of upgrading the turbo, injectors and rebuilt the internals??