How To Get More Power From A Naturally Aspirated (na) Engine

[GTS4WD]

haha - the lighter the car the less brakes you need right???

just down shift and let teh engine do teh slowing right!!!!

seriously brake upgrading is the best thing anybody can do to a car....

Smaller brakes = less weight

Less weight = Smaller brakes..

thats my theory..

I was lucky enough to already have 5 stud and turbo brakes cos it was a Rb20DET GTS4.. then again.. I did give up a turbo for an NA..

*^$%#@ govenrmnet!

brakes,,,, the best thing to do to a car?!!!?!!!?!!

You clearly havent done track work.. or twistie work..

Edited November 26, 2007 by GTS4WD

[342Four]

brakes,,,, the best thing to do to a car?!!!?!!!?!!

you obviously have never tried to pull up really quickly trying to avoid an accident.....

increasing the braking affect (by either better pads/rotors, or bigger brakes full stop) is to increase the brake threshold - the point were you can brake just b4 the tyres lock up

cars are manufactured to fall inside a certain range (i think its got something to do with GVM, stopping distance and engine power)

often a manufacturer will give a car brakes sufficient enough to fall just inside that range - meaning lower cost and less r&d

increase engine power in a car and you need bigger brakes to fall in the range

increase GVM and you need bigger brakes to fall in the range

keep engine power and GVM the same and increase brake size and you are well in the range - and can stop quicker and safer

and in the fact of track work or twisty sections - brakes are used a lot more, they heat up and increase in heat=less braking ability

sometimes a manufacturers brake specs are sufficient to warrant a better pad/rotor combo when power increases

sometimes it requires a whole new brake package

Im weighing up the cost of turbocharging my excel - something i could do for 4g's, 500$ of which would go to slotted rotors, new pads, and possibly converting my rear drums to discs...

/end spiel....

[GTS4WD]

you obviously have never tried to pull up really quickly trying to avoid an accident.....

increasing the braking affect (by either better pads/rotors, or bigger brakes full stop) is to increase the brake threshold - the point were you can brake just b4 the tyres lock up

cars are manufactured to fall inside a certain range (i think its got something to do with GVM, stopping distance and engine power)

often a manufacturer will give a car brakes sufficient enough to fall just inside that range - meaning lower cost and less r&d

increase engine power in a car and you need bigger brakes to fall in the range

increase GVM and you need bigger brakes to fall in the range

keep engine power and GVM the same and increase brake size and you are well in the range - and can stop quicker and safer

and in the fact of track work or twisty sections - brakes are used a lot more, they heat up and increase in heat=less braking ability

sometimes a manufacturers brake specs are sufficient to warrant a better pad/rotor combo when power increases

sometimes it requires a whole new brake package

Im weighing up the cost of turbocharging my excel - something i could do for 4g's, 500$ of which would go to slotted rotors, new pads, and possibly converting my rear drums to discs...

/end spiel....

Heard about dropping 4g63's in excels?.. This possible?

Had a pub talk with some bloke.. said it costed him 4K all up..

possible?

[342Four]

mines an X3 excel

the X2's were mitsu engined anyway so a 4g63 drop wasnt that hard at all...

in the X3's requires custom driveshafts = big money

can do a 1.8 or 2 litre hyundai lantra engine swap and then turbo, but requires a bit of piss farting around (and the standard gearbox HAS to be used, and the extra torque from the 2 litre kills em really easy)

[unarmed_skyline]

hey eug, im being lazy atm cause im between job's what still needs to be written up, i duno much bout the rb30 build up's but most other stuff i should be able to find some links floating around for. when i was reading i wasn't to sure how much you wanted covered.

Though i'd add a link to a short write up i did about a year and a bit ago before i'd started actually modifying everything, i'd re-word, evaluate it a lot now but it a good basic write up on what's out there.

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/N-...want+more+power

[Eug]

same here jarrod, i'm at uni right through the summer holidays.

where was that thread??? i've been here since 2004 and never came across that, sorry for doubling - i'll try to merge the two together when i can. cheers for that

i dont expect these (this) thread to happen over night, it's something we can do and progressively build on it.

[SKiT_R31]

you obviously have never tried to pull up really quickly trying to avoid an accident.....

...

Usually stock brakes with good pads are MORE than enough, for one pull up to avoid an accident, and bigger better brakes arent going to stop you any quicker (infact later, more rolling weight!) yes they are heaps better for track/twisties, as the brakes are constantly in use and get hot etc.

personally, I'm happy with my standard sized brakes, with a really good pad, and DBA4000 (slotted & cross drilled) with braided brake lines. Stops damn quick, plenty of bite, very responsive.

So it really depends on what you want your brakes for, but more often than not, you way better off spending your money on tyres, because thats whats connecting you to the ground.

bigger brakes dont hurt, but you dont NEED them, depends on your driving style, imo - im not driving any faster, its for road ffs, only acceleration, which last time i checked you didnt brake during... Ill go bigger eventually, but its not a high priority as really all its going to do is hurt performance everywhere but constant cornering.

also to missr34 - a bosch 040 wont give you any more power, unless your starving your engine of fuel atm. I noticed when i put a bosch 023 in my car, the fpr held its pressure constant when revving (before i revved it and it halved) making it slightly more respnosive, and also stopped a light ping when shifting straight back into high revs WOT. and on newer car like yours, i wouldnt worry until your making a fair bit more power.

[scotty014]

some stock brakes can be good but my last car was a subaru rx it had disks at the front and drums at the rear and they were the worst brakes ever even with good pads. i just had them machined and all fixed up and they still made a grinding sound after 10 mins of driving,, it sounded like it had no brake pads but they did. and when i had a few people in the car braking was a bitch it wouldn't pull up quick enough. but driving in the wet was great it stuck to the road like glue. anyway cars these days come with good brakes as standard.

[unarmed_skyline]

hey eug, i think it was only around for a week before it got pushed over the page, but in that time you made a couple of comments, it was a while ago now so yeh prob wouldnt remember it. i just remembered writing it up and then when i saw this thred thought i might link into it.

[vinny cos]

hi guys im new to this so help me out if im doing something wrong, i have a quick question about pod filters. If i was to put two pod filters on a N/A skyline r33 would it be any better than having one and will it make a louder sound? This will be in a box and cold air would be coming from the pipe connected to the front bar.

[unarmed_skyline]

hey that topic was covered in the forced induction section bout 2 weeks ago if you do a search in there you'll find a big disscussion but the end conclusion is no putting on 2 pod filters is pointless as your intake can only flow as much as your intake pipe. The only way to get anything out of it in an na format (or would work on twin turbos) would be running 2 pod's into 2 separate intake pipes and then threw 2 throttle bodys into the plenum chamber, this has been done on an r31 with rb30de. would sound mad as complete twin intakes

[Hesh]

hy guys, yes noobs would read this ... i did......and much info was gained .......thanks.....

anyone able to put up info on using rb26 throttle bodies and adapter plate on a 25? thats my next plan after exhaust mods and coils..

Edited December 6, 2007 by Hesh

[dori34]

anyone thought about or have purchased a itb kit off tweakit performance?

they look pretty good but they're nearly 2K + you need aftermarket ECU + tune.

gonna cost nearly 4K all up.

anyone considered this option?..

hehe

i remmeber seeing a youtube clip of a rb20de r32 skyline (a chick drives it) and it had ITB and it sounded so angry!!

[unarmed_skyline]

i just had a look at the ones on tweekit, they are universal and need to modify and weld on the throttle bodies, this would be quite expensive with an rb to get much of a gain out of them as you would need to weld on an extra bend on the runners to get enough room to then weld on the throttles. this would drastically reduce flow comparied to the gtr set up and would end up costing quite a lot more cash installing them i wouldnt expect any change from a grand if not 2 so then it ends up 3k plus 1500 for a microtech or some other ecu which uses map sensors insted of a/f sensor, then a tune on anything like that needs a lot of work cause the base maps are for a turbo so prob $800 for a tune more for a good tune. then you need ram filers wich adds anotherbit on top

So your 4k ends up being more like $5200 min and it still wouldnt flow as well as the 26 manifold.

the 26 manifolds go for around 1k if you look hard enough and it wouldnt cost more than 2-400 to get an adaptor plate made up then run individul trumpets a microtech and a tune, prob done for 3k bang that would sound tought as f**k and imadigne the response, and hey whilst your at it why not get them ported and polished for increaced flow add another 400 for that and your still in cheaper than the universal ones.

Its well worth looking into but its a big expencive mod which i could probably safely say none of us have actually tried so the preformance gains would be speculation, another thought could be running twin tb's which has been done before, get your standard manifold modifyed to run 2 stock or a little smaller sized throttle bodies and twin induction tubes with twin pods, would be a big improvment from stock for a more reasnable cost.

You have to think of it this way the best way to get preformance out of an na is to increase the flow of everything reduce all intake lengths, reduce as many bends as possible, get the coldest air possible in, if your running itb's with turmpets buy something like a wrx style bonnet scoup and channel the air over the trumpets so it sucks straight cold air.

Increase the intake sucking with cam overlap ect, increace compression for bigger bang, match the exhaust flow for your engine, get someone to do some figures on what sizes will give you the best backpressure for the best exhaust flow then get it custom made. Smothen and increase everything you car, increase engine compacity, use an rb26 crank and rods to give that extra .1 litres of air.

Reduce any moveing or rotational weight, lighter pistons, lightweight pullies, carbon fibre tailshaft, lighter flywheel but not too much to affect drivability. Lightweight wheels

Remember 1kg of rotational weight is like the same as i think 5-10 kgs of still weight.

Then look into best gear and diff ratios for your prefered motorsport, give the car a diet, what you dont need get rid off

[Dan_J]

hey guys,

so who here has actualy got sum decent power from a n/a rb20/25/30 ?

after you get a zorst and pod u'd be spending more money then the turbo version is worth just to get the same power.

Edited December 7, 2007 by Dan_J

[GTS4WD]

hey guys,

so who here has actualy got sum decent power from a n/a rb20/25/30 ?

after you get a zorst and pod u'd be spending more money then the turbo version is worth just to get the same power.

But the toruqe, responce and power band simply shits all over a turbo..

So your not going to be able to go quite as fast (top straight line speed).. but F*CK your gonna get there quick!

And even spritired twitie driving.. a decent NA would still leave a turbo for dead.. (given the same suspention, brake and weight)

[Dan_J]

hey Cris,

but how much effort wud it take 2 get a n/a there

and you can pretty much do the same thing to a turbo so u got n/a torque/response and turbo squirt

And even spritired twitie driving.. a decent NA would still leave a turbo for dead.. (given the same suspention, brake and weight)

yes i do agree but thats a v8 or pretty decent v6

so who here has actualy got sum decent power from a n/a rb20/25/30 ?

anything special been done 2 a n/a rb20 these days?

[Hesh]

the modified standard plwenum running twin throttle bodies, has anyone got power and torque figures for this?

[MissR34]

Fuel Pump - Bosch 044 - <www.bosch.com> <$350> Big increase in power..

look im gonna have to burst the bubble here on the whole "big increase in power" via the fuel pump thing, unless you have put BIGGER fuel injectors in aswell.......you WILL NOT get a "big increase in power" because its the injectors that regulate the fuel going in not the pump!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

so whoever told you that you would get a big increase in power by just doing the fuel pump is full of shite.

my 2 cents. its been bugging me.

i have done the injestors in my car and i will be getting a Walbro fuel pump soon to put in the car. will post results up when i have done it all.

[Eug]

actually if you want to get into specifics, a fuel reg, regulates the fuel pressure cara

you will see added benefits of a fuel pump if your old one is dying/isn't pumping enough fuel.