It's Sad That Nissan Aus Is Bringing In The R35gtr

[ian]

It's sad that Nissan Aus is bringing the new GTR in - as that means most of us won't be buying one ever..

I suspect the main reason they are bringing them in is so that we can't import them via the SEVS scheme, as once they have brought a few in - and sold them for silly prices - we won't be able to..

ie they are going to sell them for $150K (or higher). Yet, if they didn't bring them in and get monopoly protection, we could buy a 2 minute old one for say 8M yen. Using the calc at http://www.prestigemotorsport.com.au/modules/costCalc2/ shows we could probably get it in our driveway for $105K..

And when they got a few years old (they will depreciate fairly fast in Japan, as all cars there do..) it won't be long before we could get one in our driveway for $70 to $80K, and $50K isn't too many years away...

In contrast, when Nissan Aus brings them in and sells them with another $50K markup (on top of the Japanese nissan markup, and the Japanese dealer markup) at $150k, not only will most of us not be able to afford that, they are going to depreciate much slower as well in this protected market.. So they probably are never going to be reasonably priced..

So unless we get law changes (to remove the monopoly import rights) I don't think many of us in Aus are ever going to own a r35gtr...

The only good thing (for us) about the R35 GTR release is that we can still bring in r34 GTRs (we are lucky nissan aus didn't bring a few in to stop us doing that..) and their price is going to drop noticeably in the next few years.. :-)

:-( Ian

[mitchy_]

aren't they only bringing in a certain amount?

which will make it like the R32 GTR?

[sh@un]

as that means most of us won't be buying one ever..

it's not like the ordinary model will ever be going up in value on the second-hand market

[DECIM8]

I'd say we could also import them just like evos and s15's dont you worry.

For one we'll get base model not best ones and secondly the aus model will be jammed with crap, cup holders, exhaust restrictions etc. same as all the aus spec models.

But yeah.. still going to be one hell of a machine

[sewid]

They will still be on the SEVS list for 2007 and 2008.

Nissan Australia probably wont have them here until 2009.

[funkymonkey]

hehe you'd be surprised ian what gets on the SEVS list

there is a 2 year period before they are available in australia... and if history is anything to go by (S15 anyone?) then there's a window of opportunity to get em in still.... even if Nissan get full volume status on them. And if they don't get full volume sales status on em, then yeah, exact same situation as Evo's.

Also keep in mind $150,000 gets you a factory warranty and other bonuses. Probably not worth $40,000 but hey... that's what exclusivity is all about.

We've actually got one of the best import laws in the world (well... probably next best after the European laws on imports). You get to choose from new cars instead of rusted old 15 year old shitboxes, and there's a decent quality control system (compliance).

[BIGS]

Lets face it we won't truly know until they do come out here. Heres hoping they do come out 2 years from now and we can import them like you can the s15.

[ian]

We've actually got one of the best import laws in the world (well... probably next best after the European laws on imports). You get to choose from new cars instead of rusted old 15 year old shitboxes, and there's a decent quality control system (compliance).

Actually, I think the opposite is true. We have very bad import rules ie the 30 year monopoly rule, and unlike other countries we aren't big enough internally to get any real competition going... And compliance isn't really about quality, it's about restricting the number of imports, and increasing the costs.

We should go the same as NZ, ie remove all import restrictions.

Back to the GTR - if we can get a date 'window' through SEVS ie 2008, that would be really good. And if we can get a window through on the 'models' that would be good too - though I suspect (I don't know that there are going to be enough gtr models to do that one).

Lets hope I'm wrong!

Ian

[BIGS]

Cool thing is, because they are hand built and small amount made each year than its like a current lambo or Ferrari where you don't question the year it was made its just the same vechile regardless. If you get what I'm saying haha

Eg As in it comes out here in 08 and we get to import 07's

Edited November 21, 2007 by BIGS

[djr81]

Actually, I think the opposite is true. We have very bad import rules ie the 30 year monopoly rule, and unlike other countries we aren't big enough internally to get any real competition going... And compliance isn't really about quality, it's about restricting the number of imports, and increasing the costs.

It is amazing how quickly people have forgotten how rancid & rife with dodgy practices the second hand car import industry was before the new laws were introduced. Everyone should say thankyou to John Anderson that he had the understanding & foresight to introduce the processes & the legislation.

There are only two groups of people who dislike the rules.

1. Dodgy businesses.

2. People who want to import third rate, thashed & badly modified sh!tboxes.

I don't care much for the former, nor for the drifting community either.

[ian]

It is amazing how quickly people have forgotten how rancid & rife with dodgy practices the second hand car import industry was before the new laws were introduced. Everyone should say thankyou to John Anderson that he had the understanding & foresight to introduce the processes & the legislation.

There are only two groups of people who dislike the rules.

1. Dodgy businesses.

2. People who want to import third rate, thashed & badly modified sh!tboxes.

I don't care much for the former, nor for the drifting community either.

Simply not true.

Yes, there were dodgy cars coming in. But that could easily have been stopped without giving the importers monopoly rights.

I'd say that the only people who LIKE the current laws are people making money from buying compliance 'slots' and selling them.

If I can walk into a dealer in Japan - ie retail - and buy a car, put it on a boat (retail again), and bring it here much cheaper than the manufacturer wants to sell it to me, why shouldn't I be allowed to? The manufacturer has made it's money (in Japan) a dealer has made their money (also in Japan) and I've ended up with a car the same (or sometimes better) than what they will bring in to the country.

For just about every other product in Australia you can do that. But not cars. Why not?? For example, if you don't like what the hi fi stores have, get it overseas and bring it in yourself (my speakers came from canada, my amp from the usa, my CD player from the UK), or if you don't like what the local camera store has, buy it somewhere else - all of my cameras, up until a few years ago, came either from Japan or the USA. The only reason they don't now is that local camera stores picked up their socks both in terms of what they offered and the price they offered it for.. Because of the competition..

The same would be true for cars. If there was actual competition in imports, you'd see a massive improvement in what you could buy, and how much you were paying for it...

And if you want to protect the local assemblers (which I wouldn't, but that's a different topic), the way to do that properly is tariffs, not import monopolies.

Ian

[ricsvtr]

You really like the word monopoly dont you? Did you just learn what it means or something?

Edited November 21, 2007 by ricsvtr

[dangerous_daveo]

I'm thinking they are as said above $150k new because of all the warrenty etc. But maybe mostly because of a big arse luxury car tax they are going to cop over and above the normal tax? I'm guessing that would have a bit of an impact.

And I suspect the main reason they are bringing them is so Nissan can sell them to us, so they can make money out of us... Not so nissan can sell them to Japanese people who will then sell them to us.

Either way, my money Id be buying a new M3.

[funkymonkey]

sigh, ian, we've been through this before with your crusade againt the import laws and importers n all.

unfortunately there are regulatory laws for cars as its kinda hard to kill yourself with a parallel import speaker or a camera which don't have to comply with australian ISO standards, or be tested for, nor covered by a warranty or quality control system... but a car that isn't quality tested most definitely can kill you.

There's nothing stopping anyone from applying to import a car that's not available locally, as long as they're a certified RAW who can demonstrate the required technical knowledge. Compliancers aren't just making money on cars, they are also liable for any recalls and defects that may be raised in the future. Technically they are the manufacturers of the car as far as the government is concerned. If something was to go wrong with the car, the buck would stop at them, and it is this gurantee that you pay for.

As for competition and import "slots"... are you kidding me? You couldn't give away compliance to an R33 with the hundreds of compliance workshops in australia. if a model is popular, there will be competition, if it isn't then the workshop can demand whatever the hell they want... like Modena Imports, who comply high end masserati's and ferrari's... no competition means they can ask whatever they want.

No system is ever created to please one person, and its unfortunate that it doesn't please you, but as with everything else in a democracy, its a compromise that sees everyone happy. I'm sure you'd love the thought of an american import system being put in place in australia.

Also new zealand doesn't have a local auto manufacturing industry... so its a free for all... you only need to drive down the streets of auckland to see the rusted pile of shit cefiro's and stagea's to realise there's no quality control there when it comes to what enters the country. Apples with oranges.

[1C3B3RG]

Simply not true.

Yes, there were dodgy cars coming in. But that could easily have been stopped without giving the importers monopoly rights.

I'd say that the only people who LIKE the current laws are people making money from buying compliance 'slots' and selling them.

If I can walk into a dealer in Japan - ie retail - and buy a car, put it on a boat (retail again), and bring it here much cheaper than the manufacturer wants to sell it to me, why shouldn't I be allowed to? The manufacturer has made it's money (in Japan) a dealer has made their money (also in Japan) and I've ended up with a car the same (or sometimes better) than what they will bring in to the country.

For just about every other product in Australia you can do that. But not cars. Why not?? For example, if you don't like what the hi fi stores have, get it overseas and bring it in yourself (my speakers came from canada, my amp from the usa, my CD player from the UK), or if you don't like what the local camera store has, buy it somewhere else - all of my cameras, up until a few years ago, came either from Japan or the USA. The only reason they don't now is that local camera stores picked up their socks both in terms of what they offered and the price they offered it for.. Because of the competition..

The same would be true for cars. If there was actual competition in imports, you'd see a massive improvement in what you could buy, and how much you were paying for it...

And if you want to protect the local assemblers (which I wouldn't, but that's a different topic), the way to do that properly is tariffs, not import monopolies.

Ian

Mates and matees

I'ts all about protecting Ford and Holden. If Australia allowed us to shop for cars overseas at cheaper prices these two companies would be in a swift flush down the loo. In my opinion it is crap but i'ts reality. The new GTR is one of few cars that brings a tear to my eye and sets my heart racing, mostly coz i know it's a car i probably could not afford. Funny how the reason is in the last word of the previous sentence.

[R-PWR]

Man I hope we cant import them, I would rather pay 150k and know that I am getting a car that is exclusive and also one that isnt going to drop overnight like everyother GT-R. At least this time if the price stays up not every damn hoon can ruin the name of such a wonderful sports car. Plus it will have all the local support and wont be frowned upon like an import. Seriously do u really want it to just be another r32 r33 or r34 GTR which as soon as price drops they just get mass imported in and no longer get the respect they deserve. The GT-R name deserves more respect and if its sold for top dollar in Aus and unable to be imported thats what it will get.

Althought it would obviously be nice to save the coin and get one cheap ...

[ian]

sigh, ian, we've been through this before with your crusade againt the import laws and importers n all.

unfortunately there are regulatory laws for cars as its kinda hard to kill yourself with a parallel import speaker or a camera which don't have to comply with australian ISO standards, or be tested for, nor covered by a warranty or quality control system... but a car that isn't quality tested most definitely can kill you. ...

Actually, there is a direct parallel - electrical goods (using 240v) can kill you, and burn down your house etc ie are just as dangerous as a car is.

However, we trust that something that meets (say) the UK electrical standards is safe enough to use here.

It should be the same for cars. I personally have no problems driving a car that has passed the Japanese design standards, or the UK ones, or the USA ones, or the German ones, ... or the Australian ones.

So if a car meets the design standards of a country we are happy with (there would be a list) AND can pass the local road worthy test, we should be allowed to own it and import it..

But yes, you're right, we have been through all this before. And I agree that the side that wanted to pay more money for less choice has effectively won for now..

You really like the word monopoly dont you? Did you just learn what it means or something?

Nope, found out what it meant decades ago. I use it as it is the right word, and it is pretty rare in Australian import rules. The only other one I can think of right now is the drug (legal) import rules.

Man I hope we cant import them, I would rather pay 150k and know that I am getting a car that is exclusive and also one that isnt going to drop overnight like everyother GT-R. At least this time if the price stays up not every damn hoon can ruin the name of such a wonderful sports car. Plus it will have all the local support and wont be frowned upon like an import.

Hmm, I suspect - though again, maybe I'm wrong - that if we have them officially imported and a handful or two are sold, vs if they weren't officially imported and we had 10 times that number because they were cheaper (just guessing what the multiple would be) - that the 'support' would be much better in the latter situation!

You just have to look around for the level of support that's around if you have a r33 or r34 gtr - it's not exactly hard to get parts or to find workshops who can do things with them!

In the old days (pre internet and easy ability to get parts from anywhere in the world..) I think you would have been right.

And yes, I agree with you - if you value exclusivity (which I don't, but I know other people do) it's much better for Nissan to officially bring them in.

Anyway, I stand by my original comment, it's a pity they are bring them in. Although I will add a big UNLESS we can still privately import them, or even better Nissan sell them for the same margin a Japanese dealer would and they do come on the market at a similar price to what we could import them ourselves for - I think that would be a very smart move for Nissan and would help them a lot, but I suspect they aren't going to do it...

Ian

[djr81]

Mates and matees

I'ts all about protecting Ford and Holden. If Australia allowed us to shop for cars overseas at cheaper prices these two companies would be in a swift flush down the loo. In my opinion it is crap but i'ts reality. The new GTR is one of few cars that brings a tear to my eye and sets my heart racing, mostly coz i know it's a car i probably could not afford. Funny how the reason is in the last word of the previous sentence.

It is not about protecting Ford or Holden (Or Toyota or Mitsubishi either). Although you can be damn sure that they (Especially Toyota) lobbied hard not to allow any imports in. People also forget that the road safety lobby (an industry of itself really) are massively influential aswell. What do you think their opinion of 15 year old "high powered sports cars' being imported into the country is?

What it is about is allowing the imports of sports & specialist cars (ie stuff we want) that comply with the relevant ADR's (Like everyone elses cars have to) by a quality assured workshops (Of the type you would want to use, ie not some busted arse outfit) that have to warrant their work. If you take those three things as the basic tenet of an importing system why would you have an issue with the way the RAWS/SEVS scheme is conducted?

If you look at the cost breakdown for the cars you will see that the compliance cost (for anything half way worthwhile) is not a huge proportion of the total bill. I am not talking about a shitbox S13 held together with cable ties here.

With regard to tarriffs you will note that the manufacturers are squeeling now that they are down to 10% (Nil for some countries like the US, Thailand) One of the major political parties has announced a bullsh!t "enquiry" into the level of protection should they win...

The only real wrinkle in the system (As this thread started on about) is that the manufacturers themselves can fk it up for everyone by bringing only a few cars in at "full volume". On the flip side they can also do what Mitsubishi did with the Evo's & keep everyone happy.

[steve88]

You really need to lobby the ACCC for stuff like this. there are government bodies about corporations pulling dodgy strings, unfortunatley I dont think itd be terribly successful. nissan can cook up so many costs between its parent and subsidiary companies in australia

[ian]

The only real wrinkle in the system (As this thread started on about) is that the manufacturers themselves can fk it up for everyone by bringing only a few cars in at "full volume". On the flip side they can also do what Mitsubishi did with the Evo's & keep everyone happy.

Which is the whole point of my original and subsequent post. Even if you accepted the argument that you need all this 'compliance' stuff, why wouldn't you let individuals (or other companies) bring in the SAME cars that the 'official' importer is allowed to bring in! Thus the words 'monopoly imports' above! In fact, the phrase I should be using is 'monopoly import racket'

Ian