Cops

[D3bb4]

They can not just defect you for anything they like...they do defect you for obvious emission violations,

illegal mods and unroadworthy items.

Just like to point out that this... not correct. My cousin's a cop. Even he agrees that highway patrol make up their own rules.... and they do.

I got defected for bullshit. Told engineer about it, and he upfront said is b/s. Nowhere in ADR does it say that car must/musn't have shit i was defected for. And compliance with ADR is the basis for defects; and thus.... b/s. they deliberately wasted my time when i was on my way to work, nomatter how poliete i was, etc. I told them i've gtg work; they like "go and wait by your car. and like "but i didnt do anythign wrong?" and again got told to go and wait by car. Then they finally come up and issue me with a defect notice, tell me how lightly i got off, etc. which was a load of crap. They just bored dickheads on power trips.

Have been travelling along a major road, passed a cop in a right turn lane... soon as i went past; he flew outa the lane straight after me; he went in far left lane (me in far right), tried to overtake some people to catch up, lights infront went red, i pulled up with a car infront of me before the line, cop stuck in middle of intersection with lights on.... suck shit

[FATAZZ]

Wonder if mazda 323's will be on the ban list now somebody got caught doing 137 in 50 zone...

Or, perhaps they might re-consider their b/s laws...

Or; somehow i doubt it.

nah,read up,a cop already drives a 323 so i cant see that happening.

maybe it was him,maybe he felt inadequite to the copper and his wife doing donuts(on dirt)

MayBe

[4teecal]

BTW you are not obliged to open your bonnet if you know you are clearly supporting illegal modifications like most show cars, unless the police suspect you of hiding drugs. For example if i owned a full-sick-subwoffer-drifting-hecktic-Rbaby-gangster show car, and the police HWY patrol pulled me over as i was leaving Autosalon for an RBT i wouldn't open my bonnet. But you have to be prepared to be taken down to the station and time in a holding cell. Most cops don't want to go through the pain of taking you down to the station, but some will. From memory if you do that you get some time before your car has to pass EPA. ie EPA always have a backlog.

u do have the right to not open ur bonnet, but i dnt think many of us have the balls to do so, giving up the chance we might get thru with it clean,

p.s. u can still get defected for a engineered item BUT they cannot issue u a fine. sux i know but they still do it just to be a pain. the only thing is even if u get epa'd and go spend 1k to get it tuned to pass, and u have the cert to prove it, they can still epa u again a week later... and thats f*ked cause u might have a different batch of fuel. i would always with out a doubt fight it.

i found a very very affective way of having a cop not defect u for some things, is wen he says to u hes going to defect u for a undefectable or engineered item, like car to low or boxed up pod or a bov which u can fight... is stand infront of the cops car camera and say out loud i" am getting defected for an item i shouldnt be getting done for and i will be taking this to court. very affective. try it, i have for a few things and has always worked. BUT... MAKE SURE U RECORD IT ON UR PHONE 2 BECAUSE POLICE TEND TO EDIT THE RECORDING AND MUTE THE THING, just make sure after u press the record button, u let the officer know. it might let the cop know u will be taking it to court and he cant be stuffed or he knows he aint doing it right.

Sorry, but here is the legislation that says they CAN go right through your car to inspect it. If you don't open it then they will either use enough reasonable force to gain entry to the engine bay, send to yover the pits /EPA . I don't think the cops will care if you tape them. Why bother. You are recorded on their in car video anyway, which can't be edited, and I'm sure they would love the conversation anyway.

ROAD TRANSPORT (VEHICLE REGISTRATION) ACT 1997 - SECT 26

Defective registrable vehicles

26 Defective registrable vehicles

(cf Cth Act s 28)

(1) A police officer, or the Authority, may inspect a registrable vehicle (whether or not on a road or road related area) for the purpose of deciding its identity, condition or the status of any registration or permit relating to the vehicle.

(1A) A registered operator or owner of, or any person in charge of or having the custody of or selling or having in possession for sale or otherwise of the registrable vehicle must afford the police officer or the Authority all reasonable facilities for making such an inspection.

Maximum penalty: 20 penalty units.

(1B) Without limiting subsection (1), for the purposes mentioned in that subsection and in connection with any inspection, a police officer or the Authority may:

(a) enter in or on the vehicle on a road or road related area, or

(b) enter in or on any premises ordinarily used for the sale of registrable vehicles and in or on such a vehicle on those premises, or

© enter in or on any other premises if the officer or the Authority has reasonable cause to believe a registrable vehicle is for sale, held in possession for sale or in a damaged condition as a result of an accident, and may enter in or on any such vehicle on those premises.

(2) A police officer, or the Authority, may, in accordance with the regulations, on discovering a defective registrable vehicle:

(a) issue a warning or a defect notice, or

(b) impose conditions on the use of the vehicle, or

© prohibit the use of the vehicle.

(3) A defect notice may be withdrawn or cleared in accordance with the regulations.

(4) After inspecting a registrable vehicle, a police officer, or the Authority, may seize any device, plate or document in or on the vehicle if it is suspected on reasonable grounds that the device, plate or document is being used in committing an offence against this Act or the regulations.

(5) In this section, "inspect" in relation to a registrable vehicle includes observe the vehicle’s performance, with or without the use of instrumentation.

[padey]

Sorry, but here is the legislation that says they CAN go right through your car to inspect it. If you don't open it then they will either use enough reasonable force to gain entry to the engine bay, send to yover the pits /EPA . I don't think the cops will care if you tape them. Why bother. You are recorded on their in car video anyway, which can't be edited, and I'm sure they would love the conversation anyway.

Yes and no.

They can only make you open the bonnet on the spot in suspicion of hiding drugs in your engine bay. So what you do is, walk to the front of the police hwy patrol car where the conversation is video recorded and make mention of the fact that you were pulled over for an RBT, and not regarding a suspicion of drugs. That you are happy for the officers to search your car, but are not willing to open the bonnet because you suspect that the officer is only using the RBT as an entry to defect your car. You would rather be taken to the police station, have your car towed home and face an epa inspection.

Now why would you do that? Because an EPA inspection buys you some time to fix your car.

Look guys, i know you have been brought up as kids to think the police have all this power. Put simply they only enforce the law from their interpretation. You have the right to challenge their interpretation. for example, when cousins got pulled over, he didn't give a breath test or complete a drug test back at the station.

Just act in a civil way, but don't get pushed around.

[D3bb4]

I think there was something about them changing laws after cronulla riots; gave police more power to search/strip cars looking for whatever... more power to them, less to us.

[4teecal]

Yes and no.

They can only make you open the bonnet on the spot in suspicion of hiding drugs in your engine bay. So what you do is, walk to the front of the police hwy patrol car where the conversation is video recorded and make mention of the fact that you were pulled over for an RBT, and not regarding a suspicion of drugs. That you are happy for the officers to search your car, but are not willing to open the bonnet because you suspect that the officer is only using the RBT as an entry to defect your car. You would rather be taken to the police station, have your car towed home and face an epa inspection.

Now why would you do that? Because an EPA inspection buys you some time to fix your car.

Look guys, i know you have been brought up as kids to think the police have all this power. Put simply they only enforce the law from their interpretation. You have the right to challenge their interpretation. for example, when cousins got pulled over, he didn't give a breath test or complete a drug test back at the station.

Just act in a civil way, but don't get pushed around.

Well what can I say. I thought it was pretty self explanatory but,

(1) A police officer, or the Authority, may inspect a registrable vehicle (whether or not on a road or road related area) for the purpose of deciding its identity, condition or the status of any registration or permit relating to the vehicle

and another part of the act.....

(a) enter in or on the vehicle on a road or road related area,

I have just shown it in black and white where the law says they can inspect a vehicle. If you think they can only do it "to search for drugs, then go for it. :laughing-smiley-014:

BTW. Show me where is says they can only search the engine bay on suspicion of drugs?

[4teecal]

I think there was something about them changing laws after cronulla riots; gave police more power to search/strip cars looking for whatever... more power to them, less to us.

Different laws altogether. Must be in an authorised area that is declared due to major civil unrest, similar to the laws that wer eused for APEC as well. These areas are only authorised for a sertain peiod of time and allow police to set up roadblock and search all vehicles.

[D3bb4]

wrong!

Those laws are now being ratified or whatever... they shall remain in place. THey're even thinking of giving them more powers. Is in a SMH article a few weeks back.

Edited November 28, 2007 by D3bb4

[4teecal]

wrong!

Those laws are now being ratified or whatever... they shall remain in place. THey're even thinking of giving them more powers. Is in a SMH article a few weeks back.

Wow, it's like bashing my head against a wall in here tonight.

I never said they arent laws.

They are , and have been in place since Cronulla. It is in fact and amendment to the Law Enforcement (Police and Responsibities ) Act which was created in 2002. As I said, they are only enacted when a senior officer declares and area as an authorised area under the act and is only in place for a certain period of time.

[D3bb4]

Just don't think that's what i read about it. Won't say more on it until i find more definate info, but afaik, people don't have so many freedoms any more.

[4teecal]

Probably some addition to the anti terror laws?

[padey]

Well what can I say. I thought it was pretty self explanatory but,

(1) A police officer, or the Authority, may inspect a registrable vehicle (whether or not on a road or road related area) for the purpose of deciding its identity, condition or the status of any registration or permit relating to the vehicle

and another part of the act.....

(a) enter in or on the vehicle on a road or road related area,

I have just shown it in black and white where the law says they can inspect a vehicle. If you think they can only do it "to search for drugs, then go for it. :laughing-smiley-014:

BTW. Show me where is says they can only search the engine bay on suspicion of drugs?

I prefer qualified comment. So when you've completed your law degree, then come and give me legal advice. Actually, i don't need your advice, i've got my own degree.

[BallSx]

neways, u always have a right to refuse nething, u will be taken in and processed, as for wat happens with the car i dnt know...

and 4teecal im not beating on u here BUT yes police can edit the in car recorder. it happened to me. and i won cause there wasnt sufficient evidence to bak him up where i recorded the whole thing.

i also got pulled over not long ago for holding an internet ipod thingy in my hand leaning my head on it while i was driving, and the officer was going to book me for talking on the phone, i stood infront of the recorder and said out loud "this is not a phone in neway, it has no phone capabilities, it is a internet ipod thingy made by windows" the only thing written on it was windows. never heard bak from him. thing is maybe i was on the phone

Edited November 28, 2007 by BallSx

[CJR32]

I prefer qualified comment. So when you've completed your law degree, then come and give me legal advice. Actually, i don't need your advice, i've got my own degree.

so mr law degree,a police officer has no right to open your bonnet to inspect your vin and engine number to confirm that they match with rta records and rego papers,

back to uni for you

[padey]

so mr law degree,a police officer has no right to open your bonnet to inspect your vin and engine number to confirm that they match with rta records and rego papers,

back to uni for you

Hey now don't get me wrong, I'd love to go back to uni. Three months off over summer, heaps of chicks around, although most the time I was broke.... But these days the mrs, kids, mortgage... et al, wouldn't be too pleased.

The legislation regarding right of entry is not 'black and white'. You may like to think it is, but it's not. Saying it is 'black and white', cut and pasting it on a forum, doesn't change the reality that there are shades of interpretation that get tested through due legal process everyday.

That's why people get off from seemingly 'open and shut' cases. I remember reading about a case when a guy had his speeding penalty reduced because he successfully put to the judge that his Bentley was designed to cruise on german autobahns at a higher speed, and thus should have his fine reduced because he wasn't driving dangerously or potentially risking other peoples lives. I can't remember who it was, but it was a high profile person and it kicked up a public stink. And I can understand why. (BTW any skyline owner attempting to try that defense for speeding, your on your own, don't call me )

[4teecal]

BallSx. Don't worry. I don't think you are beating up on me. If I enter into a debate I don't mind a good rebuttal.

. They can turn Audio on and off, but cannot edit the actual ICV due to its security features. (Wait for the conspiracy theorists to jump in and start staying that the coppers would go to all the trouble to alter the video so the copper can convict them on a pissy ticket.)

Padey. I dont know what to say. If you want to have a go with "legal interpretation" then who am I to stand in your way. Go for it and lets us know how you went with it when you try it. You right of entry theory mught hold water if we are talking about entering onto private property, but that is covered both in common law and statute law and yes, you are right, it is not black and white, but a car is a different matter. It is defined under the appropriate legislation and people are authorised to enter into it at any time by legislation

Legal interpretation had nothing to do with the Bentley case as he pladed guilty with an excuse and was given a S10 dismissal by the magistrate. How is that legal interpretation when the offence is proven and the magistrate is merely excercising his right under the Crimes (Sentencing Procedures) Act 1999.

Now back to not opening the bonnet. I dont think your pieces of papers on the wall make no difference to the fact that Police are authorised officers under the Road Transport (Veh registration ) Act and they can inspect a car.

Edited November 28, 2007 by 4teecal