It Has Begun.........

[H@ME]

hey, has an interesting sound, at least no rasping (well not bad rasping as other N/A engines seem to do) i watched the clip, was NOS used?? got any others? however she coming along nicely!

hame

[Sliver]

Fantastic, this is the first reference I have found of a N2O fitted to an N/A Skyline anywhere

I am based over in the UK and have a N/A R34 GT 4door, that I am looking to add N2O to it.

Everything on the car (other than Splitfire coils) is standard, so not sure what gains I am going to see.

Could you post a scan of the dyno graph so I can get a better feeling for both the hp / fueling and torque that your acheiving.

It is legal to run N2O on the roads in the UK as long as you have insurance that covers the modification.

I have a couple of questions, if thats OK.

- You mention and aftermarket ECU, could you highlight what this is, does it provide different fueling?

- Do you have any other modifications that may affect the performance (exhaust, intake etc?)

- The feed from between both intakes into the rocker covers, did you block this? It has a one way valve that draws air from the rocker cover on idle, I may reconfigure this as I am not really happy with N2O and fuel getting anywhere near the rocker covers.

- Are you having any fueling issues? Did you fit a larger fuel pump?

- Why did you only go for 55hp, rather than 75hp?

- Do you have a 'progressive' controller on the N2O?

- At what revs do you dring the N2O on, do you trigger manually, microswitch on the throttle, or a TPS? Is this set to 80% or more?

- Are you running a manual or tiptronic box?

Thats a lot of questions, sorry, but I have been hunting for information for a long time, and this is fantastic to find somebody who has already had great success.

This will have a LOT (and I do mean a LOT) of torque over a turbo system, with zero lag and the option to 'switch it off' anytime you want to just bumble around town. Very nice setup! Would be fantastic to see what sort of times you have down the strip.

Now I am going to wander over to the newbies section to introduce myself

[MissR34]

I have a couple of questions, if thats OK.

- You mention and aftermarket ECU, could you highlight what this is, does it provide different fueling?

its an Apexi Power FC, and allows you to change the fuelling.

- Do you have any other modifications that may affect the performance (exhaust, intake etc?)

i have a 3" Trust Stainless Steel Exhaust, Custom Extractos, Splitfire Coilpacks, GTT Fuel Injectors

- The feed from between both intakes into the rocker covers, did you block this? It has a one way valve that draws air from the rocker cover on idle, I may reconfigure this as I am not really happy with N2O and fuel getting anywhere near the rocker covers.

the lines going in (nitrous.fuel) do not go anywhere near the rocker covers, it goes in just before the throttle bottle.

- Are you having any fueling issues? Did you fit a larger fuel pump?

no, even with the bigger injectors, however i will be getting a Walbro Fuel Pump soon, the car mainly ran either too rich or too lean too begin with with bigger injectors with the inital tuning in of them

- Why did you only go for 55hp, rather than 75hp?

i was orginally told they were 75 hp jets, but then found out i was given the wrong ones, but i am buying 75 hp jets in the next few week, as they need to be ordered in.

- Do you have a 'progressive' controller on the N2O?

?

- At what revs do you dring the N2O on, do you trigger manually, microswitch on the throttle, or a TPS? Is this set to 80% or more?

about 3500-4500 rpm, i flick a switch, or the other way is i can turn the switch on, and when the car hits full throttle, the nos will automatically come in

- Are you running a manual or tiptronic box?

manual

ill try and get a dyno chart or two added on this afternoon

[Sliver]

Thanks!

You have a nice car there and its generating some great figures, I am assuming the power is at the wheels (rather than at the fly?)

Looks like I have a bit of modifying to consider before going down the N2O route.

Not sure I need the injectors as the N2O manages its own fuel, did you have to modify the ECU to run the N2O, trying to determine if the stock ECU will be sufficient for my needs?

I am coming off the back of a 300bhp 200SX which I modified myself, thought I would try something slightly different with a 4 door N/A, running N20

Edited January 4, 2008 by Sliver

[MissR34]

i would probably recommend getting the aftermarket ecu, or even a piggy back.

injectors u probably wont need, i just decided to get them cause i got them at a bargain price but if u want to do anything like that you will definelty need the aftermarket ecu.

other things you can do are get bigger cams, bigger valve springs, get stronger pistons (all on the list for me!!) etc.

my Apexi Power FC was put in the same day the NOS was tuned in.

[MissR34]

THOSE DYNO GRAPHS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

these two are from the extreme horsepower show

[rev210]

Has the nitrous setup been tuned jet wise or did you just stick the packet matched 50hp sizes in? I'm not sure what the Zex kits are like but, I only ever use the listed jet matches as a starting point to test the fuel jet listed for correct flow. Typically you will find that the reccomended jets are a jet size or two out for optimum results, more so on larger shots.

If the internals on the NA RB25 are as strong as the turbo's then you have the same power limits. Your car will be faster for the same peak power value, given you will have lots more torque and average power. Be good to see some turbo lines get blown away

[MBS206]

Your low readings initially, are due to a poor dyno operator.

Your high reading was run in the correct mode. Shoot_6

Your low readings were run in Shoot_4

YES, it DOES make a HUGE difference.

Personally, put it down the quarter

If it REALLY has 170RWKW, you should net a flat 14.

Also, if you made 5 dyno runs, and some purging, I'd say you're going to make a massive amount of 2 drag runs before running out...

5 pulls in 4th, would be a bit more then having to go through the 4 gears down the quarter, enough that you could just do it twice.

On the street, this isn't going to be useful to you if you plan to have a "toy" with some cars, as you'll get two good hits, and be all out if you're running it. OR

You'll run someone on the track, just beat them, and all of a sudden, they're all over you on the road.

Also only useful for drag racing really.

Also, I'd be fairly shitted off with that torque curve being so rough...

What're they doing with fuelling and timing?

Edited January 8, 2008 by MBS206

[Eug]

a high 13 with 170rwkw if your a half decent driver with a nice launch and correct suspension/wheel setup.

although the ID on the 170rwkw graph isn't even of your car????

[rev210]

a high 13 with 170rwkw if your a half decent driver with a nice launch and correct suspension/wheel setup.

although the ID on the 170rwkw graph isn't even of your car????

a nitrous based 170rwkw is an easy 12 second pass if you manage to hook up a 2.1-ish 60ft (not that hard really).

A 170rwkw GTST R33, assuming it is bonnet down reading (closer to what you are actually making out on the road/track) is going to net a low 13 or high 12 with a similar launch.

I ran 13.8's all day , 2.1 60ft's, with about 145rwkw (bonnet down dyno). A mid 13 is possible with a few tenths better 60ft.

Most R33 Gtst's I see at the track with the usual bolt ons and standard turbo make the same or less power than a stock car due to bad setup. There is the false assumption that a dyno has confirmed power increases/magnitude of them with the bonnet high in the sky. Hence lot's of dissapointed young blokes at the track. It's not isolated to skylines or a new thing I've seen the same thing for many years with V8's you name it. People do mods and then wonder how they can't seem to match even the factory stock times or mph.

Having said that,when on the gas, the intake temps aren't too badly effected by bonnet down or up power runs (although the tuning of the ecu should have a finish off with the bonnet down) It's always fricken cold going in the motor so nitrous doesn't suffer from hot days at the track either, in fact it helps bottle pressure too

MissR34,

You will be mauling the stock turbo gtst's at the track. NA and a girl adds extra value to the lads getting handed their ass

Edited January 10, 2008 by rev210

[MBS206]

a nitrous based 170rwkw is an easy 12 second pass if you manage to hook up a 2.1-ish 60ft (not that hard really).

A 170rwkw GTST R33, assuming it is bonnet down reading (closer to what you are actually making out on the road/track) is going to net a low 13 or high 12 with a similar launch.

I ran 13.8's all day , 2.1 60ft's, with about 145rwkw (bonnet down dyno). A mid 13 is possible with a few tenths better 60ft.

Most R33 Gtst's I see at the track with the usual bolt ons and standard turbo make the same or less power than a stock car due to bad setup. There is the false assumption that a dyno has confirmed power increases/magnitude of them with the bonnet high in the sky. Hence lot's of dissapointed young blokes at the track. It's not isolated to skylines on a new thing I've seen the same thing for many years with V8's you name it. People do mods and then wonder how they can't seem to match even the factory stock times or mph.

Having said that,when on the gas, the intake temps aren't too badly effected by bonnet down or up power runs (although the tuning of the ecu should have a finish off with the bonnet down) It's always fricken cold going in the motor so nitrous doesn't suffer from hot days at the track either, in fact it helps bottle pressure too

MissR34,

You will be mauling the stock turbo gtst's at the track. NA and a girl adds extra value to the lads getting handed their ass

Personally, I wouldn't be claiming the MissR34 will be "mauling" them.

I beleive Adrian was doing Mid 12s, day in, day out, in an R33 GTS-t on the stock turbo. With a 75HP hit of nitrous.

I don't see an NA matching those times with no where near the grunt.

And of 3 runs I saw that car do, they were all with 0.5 seconds of each other... You can't say he's a shit driver...

And personally, I'd be finding a new tuner... That power curve is VERY up and down... It's almost like a stock ECU in an overboosted GTS-t

Also, most people can't match factory claimed times, as generally factory times are run on PERFECT days, with PERFECT drivers, on EXTREMELY grippy tyres, with an extensively well prepped track.

That, and your average driver, isn't a race car driver, and they won't get everything perfect, hence they'll run "slow"

Edit: Let's take this to the circuit... Then see who gets mauled

Edited January 9, 2008 by MBS206

[rev210]

Personally, I wouldn't be claiming the MissR34 will be "mauling" them.

I beleive Adrian was doing Mid 12s, day in, day out, in an R33 GTS-t on the stock turbo. With a 75HP hit of nitrous.

I don't see an NA matching those times with no where near the grunt.

And of 3 runs I saw that car do, they were all with 0.5 seconds of each other... You can't say he's a shit driver...

And personally, I'd be finding a new tuner... That power curve is VERY up and down... It's almost like a stock ECU in an overboosted GTS-t

Also, most people can't match factory claimed times, as generally factory times are run on PERFECT days, with PERFECT drivers, on EXTREMELY grippy tyres, with an extensively well prepped track.

That, and your average driver, isn't a race car driver, and they won't get everything perfect, hence they'll run "slow"

Edit: Let's take this to the circuit... Then see who gets mauled

Hi,

Adrian also ran 12's without gas, 12.7's from memory . He ran an initial 11.9 with a tuned 65hp shot back in 2004, from memory he ended up running mid 11's with the 75 shot pretty consistantly later on.

Lets just say I know little tiny bit about his nitrous setup.

You are correct about matching claimed times in terms of difficulty, although the perfect aspect of day and time etc is not always true, in fact mostly the conditions are far from ideal with the execption of a driver. Hence people getting better than factory claimed times is common for a variety of cars.

You can predict the potential time in a car from the info on the time slips, regardless of driver. On the nights I have been down the drags I always say g'day to people and give a hand if I can. The cars I reffer to regardless of the driver/launch seem to have power issues that show up in the data.

There is nothing wrong with the tuner on Miss34's tune, there would be a bit of timing absent to take care of the motor for nitrous use at the peak torque region (120-145 on the graph) . To help you understand nitrous effects on the power curve you must understand the power curve on a nitrous equiped motor is very cliff like as you are adding 50hp or whatever HP to every part of the curve once activated, there is no 'progression' as such. Hence the torque increase is massive also.

This car will also maul your stock turbo gtst on a circuit. At a 50hp shot you have 200+ seconds of full throttle power in a single 10lb bottle, thats quite a number of laps around most tracks in Australia. For a fairly stock street car that is as much as anyone really gets in a public session. The motor has a massive torque advantage for the same power. But, it's a moot point if the regulations of the track prohibit nitrous use.

Happy to clarify the info for you to help add to the discussion.

Edited January 9, 2008 by rev210

[Eug]

my guesstimate at a quarter time was based on the 'average joe' on street tires. that being cara.

certainly someone who is well experienced in the drag racing scene will be able to shave off more time again.

other factors inclusive (suspension, weight, tires, etc) are up for discussion as well.

a polite reminder for EVERYONE to keep discussions well on cara's topic

cheers

eug

[rev210]

No worries Eug,

There is far less to running an R33/34 sized car into 13's than people keep going on about, 170rwkw (genuine/Caras?) in the hands of a newbie will get mid 13's with a pretty crappy, wheel spinning 2.3 60ft . All it takes is a setup that hasn't departed in the wrong direction from what is basically stock suspension/tyres/weight.

I think if Cara gets down the strip she can have a chat to people who have done it a few times and be running the times I suggested, ie hurting GTST owners feelings.

[MissR34]

a high 13 with 170rwkw if your a half decent driver with a nice launch and correct suspension/wheel setup.

although the ID on the 170rwkw graph isn't even of your car????

yeah i know, the dickheads at profix (who were running the dyno @ extreme horsepower) had no f*kin idea what they were doing, honestly, one car putting out 500 + kW nearly came off the rollers cause they didnt strap it down enough, and with some other cars, they had people sitting in the boot to hold it down.

but it was my car

and i have THE BEST TUNER. Joh has done an excellent job with my car, and always have, but when u have extremely inexperienced dyno people it stuffs everything up. it really does, my car put out 128 on the friday before extreme, and then did 116 at extreme horsepower, now i know that John will normally do a run in both 3rd and 4th for me, and the car did 128 in 3rd, now i told the idiots over that weekend that it was done in 3rd and i was god damn sure of it, but they said "it dosent matter what gear it is in", when i told John the next week he laughed so hard at their stupidity.

when u look at the graphs, especially the nos one, before the curve starts to go straight up, there is a part that dosent look right, where it has gone up and down, that was caused by wheel spin, which was caused by the dyno operator. i was not impressed.

oh and im getting 75 hp jets ............so we will see who gets mauled.

oh and i have a bottle warmer aswell and yes it is hooked up and no im not afraid to use it.

Edited January 9, 2008 by MissR34

[MissR34]

Edit: Let's take this to the circuit... Then see who gets mauled

bring it on

[Eug]

sounds like your surrounded by incompetence cara.

regardless i personally think the dyno/curve is merely a tuning tool or a quick guesstimate at how the engine is performing.

track it and see how it goes.

[MissR34]

its defintley not my tuners(Southern Hi Tech Dyno) imcompetence, the only reason extreme horsepower had profix doing the dyno was they got to use it for free................so they are the ones that are very very imcompetent

[FighterJoe]

when i told John the next week he laughed so hard at their stupidity.

Haha it's hard to imagine John laughing hard lol

[MissR34]

yeah it is a bit lol

but he did find it quite funny