Stagea Finialy Tuned

[Revhead]

Oh and I hope you enjoy it Bernard, I have some fond memories of that car and it's good to hear it's found a good home!

[bernardshorty]

i do enjoy this car i rate it as one of the best i have owned. as for the turbo it is an externial gate turbo but you can buy an addaptor to run an internial gate. in other words it doesnt have an internial gate it just has a hole for one . its blocked off as you can buy a plate of gcg to do that. but they say a dedicated ext gate one will allow more power .

and cy on a bike have funny lil pictures going through my mind now ha ha. sorry mate had to have a giggle. should buy my zx9.

if any one knows of a cheapish gt35r going let me no k.and as for the head all the manifolds i bought were wrong and i looked at a new intake at advan and pete said he would have to mod it as stageas run a neo head.which would prob explain the wrong high mount manifolds i got as they were for a r33.

[Ska]

I am on a 50cc scooter atm Looking for turbo kits

[Revhead]

So hot right now

[bernardshorty]

the misses should watch out mate you will be pullin all the babes on that bad boy . just need some streamers on the bars and some spokie dokies ha ha if you put a footy card in the spokes it may even sound like a bike ha ha bet ya have fun on it mate watch out for them there cars try and take ya out all the time .well they try to in port macquarie anyway . god dam crutch rockets .

[Tangles]

the misses should watch out mate you will be pullin all the babes on that bad boy . just need some streamers on the bars and some spokie dokies ha ha if you put a footy card in the spokes it may even sound like a bike ha ha bet ya have fun on it mate watch out for them there cars try and take ya out all the time .well they try to in port macquarie anyway . god dam crutch rockets .

lmao

[mitchy_]

something isnt right....

i replaced the exhaust manifolds, and gaskets on both my s1 r33, and kylies s1 stagea, and both were identical.

the ONLY difference was that nissan had updated the studs for the s2 head, but both stud types fitted both heads (series 1 studs are threaded all the way to the end, series 2 studs the thread stop about 3mm short of the head end of the stud)

either you've got a NEO motor, or very least a NEO head... or something just isnt right..

[bernardshorty]

the manifold gaskets are the same but all i have to say is r33 top mount manifolds i bought didnt fit except the x force one. it was the only one that mounted up right so i could bolt my turbo on. i have a top mount manifold i could send you to try if you want mitch. and advan said that a r33 rb25 intake has to be modded to fit my stagea it wont just bolt on wont no till i try but . will keep all posted when i find out but should have 100mm throttle body after x mass so will buy the manifold early feb and see if it will fit or not.

[IMPORTD]

(mitch here... i cant login to my account!)

interesting...

i dont doubt you that it doesnt fit, just seems odd.

the manifold i put on kylies stagea was a R33 stock manifold too... what was your high mount manifold fouling on?

PS - you can keep your manifold, i had enough fun replacing two manifolds and two gaskets within the space of one weekend, thats enough for me

Edited December 17, 2007 by StageaGirl

[bernardshorty]

it was hitting on the rocker cover badly and also not enough room to run a dump pipe but i could of soughted that it was more the turbo hitting the rocker cover . and you sure you dont want that manifold.

ha ha. and only 2 manifolds in one weekend. wish i was that lucky i got all my car done and started it and one of my mates who thought he was a good help put one of the gaskets on the wrong way and it leaked was so shattered i had to pull it all back off again never mind the other 6 times with all the different manifolds i got. car was nearly a fire ball. but now i back in love with it again so all is good.will post pics of engine bay soon people just wanna tidy it up a bit still waiting on my stainless to remake my cooler pipes as mild steel ones look nearly as funny as cy on the scooter hah ahah .

[captinsane]

ok... so let me get this straight... we have an S2 RB25head??? and NEO exhaust ports/studs???

wtf are you on????

there's no way! you couldn't have a NEO head without NEO cams,contiusouslyvariable valve timing... and an accomodating ECU-

what????you have mef reaking confused... and then on top of that someone said that R33 S2 poncams don't fit- only R34 NEO ones do... can someone explain what people are going on about... sorry to diverge from a great tune and job done on Cy/Bernards car...but it has been discussed here and i think it needs to be sorted out before someone makes expensive mistakes and starts buying stuff on 'misleading' presumptions...

please explain what you think is the issue... and is it just your car???

[Sydneykid]

it was hitting on the rocker cover badly and also not enough room to run a dump pipe but i could of soughted that it was more the turbo hitting the rocker cover

Last bit first, they are cam covers, there are no rockers in an RB25DET to cover.

From this I deduce that the exhaust manifold bolted onto the cylinder head. As it should because my Stagea currently has an R32GTST (RB20DET) exhaust manifold on it following the obligatory cracked manifold that RB25's are so fond of. I compared it with the RB25DET manifold off the R33GTST and it was the same. In fact there are pictures in the thread of all 3 manifolds, Stagea S1 auto, R33GTST and R32GTST and they are Zacharies.

So the fitting problem (hitting on the exhaust cam cover) is NOT a manifold issue, but more likely incorrect turbo selection. My guess is that the turbo has the wrong turbine cover for that application (ie; too big and/or too much offset).

As for the "no room for a dump pipe" I can't explain that without some pictures. Most likely it is the wrong turbine cover issue again.

Merry Xmas

Gary

[Sydneykid]

mitch and advan said that a r33 rb25 intake has to be modded to fit my stagea it wont just bolt on

That is the case for an S2 Stagea (Neo engine), maybe they think yours is an S2, not an S1. Best point out to them that it's NOT a Neo engine.

Cheers

Gary

[Sydneykid]

then on top of that someone said that R33 S2 poncams don't fit- only R34 NEO ones do

R34GTT (Neo engines) have solid lifters and a different CAS drive in the exhaust cam. This is the same as the S2 Stagea, as it also has a Neo engine. Hence you would need to use Neo (R34GTT) cams in an S2 Stagea.

Stagea S1's have hydraulic lifters (like an R33GTST) and the later (S2) CAS drive in the exhaust cam. Perhaps the person who said that R33GTST S2 cams don't fit was talking about an S2 Stagea, not an S1.

Cheers

Gary

[Sydneykid]

OK, so it was a BIG Xmas party yesterday, but am I missing something? I don't see a 255 rwkw dyno graph anywhere. No matter, this one (226 rwkw) will do.

I don't see a torque graph, just a very laggy boost trace. Advan did their usual trick and run the boost labeling to minus, this makes it look like it has boost (it's off the bottom of the graph) when in fact it has zero. It doesn't even make 5 psi at over 3,000 rpm, needs all of 4,500 rpm to get to 15 psi and the graph stops at 6,500 rpm. The average power over the useable rpm range is.......well ..........very average. It would drop off boost on the 1st to 2nd gear change and again on the 2nd to 3rd.

This exactly what you don't want in 1.7 tonnes of waggon. Any decent high flow turbo equipped auto Stagea (12 psi against the torque converter) would dispose of it easily. Why? Because the turbo is too big for a 2.5 litre engine in a heavy chassis. So what is he going to do? Bolt on a BIGGER turbo

Surely I must be missing something...........

Cheers

Gary

[pixel8r]

OK, so it was a BIG Xmas party yesterday, but am I missing something? I don't see a 255 rwkw dyno graph anywhere. No matter, this one (226 rwkw) will do.

I don't see a torque graph, just a very laggy boost trace. Advan did their usual trick and run the boost labeling to minus, this makes it look like it has boost (it's off the bottom of the graph) when in fact it has zero. It doesn't even make 5 psi at over 3,000 rpm, needs all of 4,500 rpm to get to 15 psi and the graph stops at 6,500 rpm. The average power over the useable rpm range is.......well ..........very average. It would drop off boost on the 1st to 2nd gear change and again on the 2nd to 3rd.

This exactly what you don't want in 1.7 tonnes of waggon. Any decent high flow turbo equipped auto Stagea (12 psi against the torque converter) would dispose of it easily. Why? Because the turbo is too big for a 2.5 litre engine in a heavy chassis. So what is he going to do? Bolt on a BIGGER turbo

Surely I must be missing something...........

Cheers

Gary

Hey SK,

Some very informative posts there yet again!

Do you have a graph of some kind or what info are you using to map the speed on the dyno graph to rpm? Or are you just going from memory?

I know I could take my stagea for a drive down some remote long stretch of road in 4th gear (or 3rd to compare with my dyno sheets) and take a few rpm readings for different speeds, but I'd rather not be clocking up 150km/h just to take these readings

Is there any document available online that can give a fairly close mapping of stagea gears/speeds to revs? I know with the torque converter it wont be 100% accurate in the lower revs but I assume this wouldn't affect higher revs so much and in any case it should be possible to have 1 graph per gear by which you can look up the speed and find out what revs the car will be at when travelling at that speed. Obviously this would only work for the stock rim size/rolling diameter as well...(and completely stock drivetrain).

Its just that dyno readouts will only include km/h down the bottom, rather than the (more useful) rpm....which they'd need more info about the car to be able to do i believe.

Also, what is the largest turbo you would recommend for a stagea? Pretty sure mine is still too big, even with supporting mods, but you live and learn.

I think mine drops off boost from 1st to 2nd just for about 1/2 a second (or less) but thats all. I've been contemplating switching it for something like a GCG highflow or Garrett 2871R or a HKS around the same size...but am now thinking I may be just as happy with better tuning. I'm not concerned with making the wagon a race car...just want good performance above 3000rpm, and hopefully reasonable fuel economy around 2000rpm - and I'm pretty close to that now - which is one reason I've decided to keep the turbo (besides money). Except for in hot weather with a/c on, I dont really mind it...in 25 deg or lower temps, it has plenty of go.

[bernardshorty]

hey sk, i was only going of what they said that a rb25 inlet manifold has to be modded to fit that all. and the reason for changing the turbo is to go to a dedicated externial gate turbo.not such to go bigger just better.and as for advan i cant complain they done a great job .and will find out soon about the inlet part as it should be here early next year . my car is no race car just a volvo with more go then standard which is all i was after. and yeh it doesnt make boost till 3 but it ok i dont realy mind it comes on hard when its on .my mates stagea is running a gt35r turbo comes on no different to mine just it has the dedicated externial gate rear housing.

cna you please tell me what diff my 90mm throttle body and inlet will make cheers .and with a tune what it should make .

[bernardshorty]

as for the 255awk it was just to show what it maxed at with what i have done is all the 226 is just to be relyable . with less risk of breakage.

[Sydneykid]

Hey SK,

Some very informative posts there yet again!

Do you have a graph of some kind or what info are you using to map the speed on the dyno graph to rpm? Or are you just going from memory?

I know I could take my stagea for a drive down some remote long stretch of road in 4th gear (or 3rd to compare with my dyno sheets) and take a few rpm readings for different speeds, but I'd rather not be clocking up 150km/h just to take these readings

Is there any document available online that can give a fairly close mapping of stagea gears/speeds to revs? I know with the torque converter it wont be 100% accurate in the lower revs but I assume this wouldn't affect higher revs so much and in any case it should be possible to have 1 graph per gear by which you can look up the speed and find out what revs the car will be at when travelling at that speed. Obviously this would only work for the stock rim size/rolling diameter as well...(and completely stock drivetrain).

Its just that dyno readouts will only include km/h down the bottom, rather than the (more useful) rpm....which they'd need more info about the car to be able to do i believe.

Also, what is the largest turbo you would recommend for a stagea? Pretty sure mine is still too big, even with supporting mods, but you live and learn.

I think mine drops off boost from 1st to 2nd just for about 1/2 a second (or less) but thats all. I've been contemplating switching it for something like a GCG highflow or Garrett 2871R or a HKS around the same size...but am now thinking I may be just as happy with better tuning. I'm not concerned with making the wagon a race car...just want good performance above 3000rpm, and hopefully reasonable fuel economy around 2000rpm - and I'm pretty close to that now - which is one reason I've decided to keep the turbo (besides money). Except for in hot weather with a/c on, I dont really mind it...in 25 deg or lower temps, it has plenty of go.

RPM versus kph is easy in a manual, 4th gear is 1 to 1 that's why it is used on the dyno, the common Nissan diff ratios are 4.1 or 4.3 and the tyre rotations per k you get from the tyre manufacturers web site. A quick rule of thumb, a 4.3 diff ratio with 255/40/17 tyres and a 1 to 1 ratio 4th gear = 28 kph per thousand rpm. So 100 kph = ~3,500 rpm.

An auto is tricky, we use 2nd gear on the dyno as it avoids the 180 kph speed limiter, most Nissan autos have standard ecu's. Torque converter slip means you get higher rpm than would be the case with direct drive (manual). That's why on an auto we always use the dyno's rpm sensor, just clip it on where the timing light goes (check out the Changing a Timing Belt thread for pictures). Most Dyno Dynamics dynos have rpm sensors, it's an option on some models and standard on others. Having one and not using it is simply laziness or ignorance as to where the timing light trigger is located.

Autos are far more tolerant of larger turbos than manuals, because you don't lift you foot on the gear changes, so the boost drop is minimised. You can also spool them up against the torque converter, makes for a fast launch in a Stagea with all that traction.

As for turbo sizing it's actually very simple as long as you pick a power target first. To maximise the response, then all you do is pick the smallest turbo that gives that power target efficiently. An example, a GT35R with external gate, 600 bhp is not a very sensible selection when you engine has standard internals and your power target is ~450 bhp. You don't get the advantage (600 bhp) but you pay the price in lag and poorer throttle response than you should have for 450 bhp. It's a lose lose scenario.

Merry Xmas

Gary

[Sydneykid]

as for the 255awk it was just to show what it maxed at with what i have done is all the 226 is just to be relyable . with less risk of breakage.

Firstly, as most of the guys know, I am here to help, not judge. I just tell it like I see it, most people seem to like it that way.

Let me make sure I got it right, it made 255 rwkw but they tuned it back to 226 rwkw for safety. That's perfectly acceptable, if that's the case.

But you are going to put on a "better" turbo, why? If it's not safe above 226 rwkw with the current turbo, why will it be safe with a "better" turbo?

Exactly what is you power target? As per the post above, it makes no sense to choose a turbo 3 sizes larger than your power target requires. Realistically a high flowed RB20DET turbo would have given you an easy 226 rwkw with a 1,500 rpm wider power band than you currently have, together with far superior response and still had headroom to make the 255 rwkw safely. An RB25DET turbo high flowed would have given another 20 rwkw on top of that with very litte loss of reponse or increase in lag. Add a VG30/Neo tubine cover and some Poncams and you are up to ~300 rwkw, with lightening response.

Merry Xmas

Gary