braided lines

[Roy]

Hey Ben next time your on the freeway cruising along, whilst you have your right foot on the throttle at say 100km/hr in 4th, lightly pump the brake pedal with your left foot.

It should go damn hard, and stay firm if you were to jump on the brake pedal.

One day at Wakefield i started noticing what you may be describing (Repeat MAYBE... MAYBE)

It turned out the master cylinder was allowing brake fluid to pass the piston, because of a dodgy/worn seal. This meant pedal pressure never relly equated to piston pressure in the caliper. This may explain the low pedal.

Now when i do the above test, the brake pedal goes rock hard, i suppose its a crude test to see if pumped up pressure is stored in the lines or whether it can seep back past the piston on the brake master cylinder.

[benm]

Originally posted by Roy

It turned out the master cylinder was allowing brake fluid to pass the piston, because of a dodgy/worn seal.

This is the part where JimX above got quoted $85ea for ?

[Guest Miss_Nismo]

Originally posted by JimX

So..... How much were they, and will they mail them to Sydney? PM me if you don't want to disclose details publically.

I think mine was $83 a hose.

There number is (08) 8295 7002 and speak to James, tell him that you have spoken to Mel with the skyline. He can then give you a more accurate quote.

Mel

[JimX]

Originally posted by benm

This is the part where JimX above got quoted $85ea for ?

No, I was talking about the caliper pistons. The master cylinder also has a piston inside it.

My brakes feel fine other than a little stickiness every now and then so I think my master cylinder is ok for now.

Hang on, where did you get $85 from? That was the price of rubber hoses rather than metal braided, and not the seals of anything. The caliper seals are $48.

[blind_elk]

I asked this question some time ago (April), and asked for a spare set of hoses to use as a template for a mob in Geelong (Maltech), and even proposed a group buy, but no-one was interested then.

The lines (front only, ADR7-00 approved) were going to set me back around $440 the pair.

[red900ss]

Hijack!

Originally posted by benm

...

Ever since boiling my brake fluid (old fluid) at EC Trackday a month ago i got new fluid put in and my pedal is low and firm and i dont have the confidence in it like i used to have with the standard setup.  

...

Sounds like you may have a stuffed master cylinder benm. If they bled the brakes by pumping the pedal it may have damaged the seals.

When the pedal is in normal use the last bit of the cylinder doesn't get swept. When you bleed the brakes the pedal and cylinder go all the way to the end of travel. Crud builds up on this last little bit and damages the soft rubber seals.

If you push the pedal firmly and hold it down does it slowly keep going in? or is it solid?

If it moves in your master cylinder needs to be looked at.

[JimX]

Blind_elk, unfortunately I wouldn't be interested in a group buy now either, because I'm too poor

But $440 for only 2 lines is exactly double what you should be paying. Give Race Brakes in Melbourne a call and you should be able to get all 4 for that price. The guys in Sydney actually get them made in Melbourne and courier'd up, so it might be even cheaper than that for you to buy locally.

[benm]

Originally posted by red900ss

If you push the pedal firmly and hold it down does it slowly keep going in? or is it solid?

Its low and solid but it just doesn't feel like their is any massive 'bite' its just a constant low pedal braking. I can push the pedal probably an easy inch before anything at all, then another inch and i feel it starting to brake and maybe another inch and thats it... solid and firm! Certainly not what $1,000 worth of new braking gear should be giving me.

I might drop in today while im getting new tyres fitted around the corner and talk to them about it coz i just don't feel 100% safe anymore (part of that was that my tyres were badly worn).

[benm]

I spent part of my day down at "Race Brakes" today and I must say that these guys run an absolutely top notch business. The shop closed at 1pm and I rocked up at 12:50pm just wanting to pickup a front set of RB74 pads and abit of discussion about my current brake issues.

Steve was incredibly knowledgable with my problems and spent the time showing me exactly where the problem was and what needs to be done to fix it. They stressed how important bedding in these RB74 pads were (they said if it isn't done properly the pads are good as useless) and I actually suddenly became quite scared of bedding them in so asked if they could fit n bed there n then which they quite happily did (even after hours).

I spent 2 hours with them as they worked on my front brakes and had a look at all possibilites. They took my wheels off and checked over the pads and calipers and then found air in my lines. Even though my DOT5 brake fluid is only 3mths old its completely useless because my caliper seals are gone and are putting shit in my lines.

The pads cost me $130 (SAU discount, normally $148) and the fitting and checking and bedding in of front pads cost $45 (SAU discount, normally $65). I insisted on paying the standard price coz I was their with no notice and they would have been working out of business hours but they wouldn't take my money.

1 of the mechanics took me out while he was bedding in my front RB74's and really gave it a good hammering. Straight away he could notice air in my rear lines and afew other issues. He noticed that the ride height in my front suspension was too low and I was hitting the bump stops quite often. This will cause more pressure to be put on the tyres/brakes and front wheels will have a tendency to lockup instead of slow down. He suggested a 20mm height adjustment.

The week after next my car will be going back to get a complete overhaul. Here is a SAU discounted quote:

* Rebuild front + rear calipers = $440

* Replace rear pads = $125

* Flush brake fluid, replace with GP600 = $100

* Paint calipers, rotors n anything else that can be painted = $40

* Adjust front ride height 20mm = $40

= $745

Not wanting to go back anytime soon (except for pads) I asked about braided lines. He suggested only getting the front done and then go n give it a good hammering as I probably won't need any further work done for trackdays. The front brake system in the Skylines uses 2 brake lines on each side where as most other cars only use 1 line each side. The cost to get the 4 front lines upgraded to braided lines was ~$340 (give or take $20 as he forgot to write it down).

I'm not sure if I will get this done (it is already putting my bodykit fitting back another 2-3mths) but I really would like to get -everything- sorted and done for track usage.

Just would like to say a huge thanks to Steve and the guys at Race Brakes (an SAU Sponsor) a huge wrap as these guys were absolutely fantastic. Time wasn't an issue for them, they let me walk throughout the workshop to look at the work being done and show me the problems etc.

Top notch business.

www.racebrakes.com.au

Steve - 02 9609 1101

[red900ss]

Glad to hear Race Brake did a fine job and also looked after you Ben.

Does your car have ABS? what year is it? mine (early 93) only has one brake line to the caliper per side.

[benm]

I have a '95 S1 with ABS.

When the front wheels were off Steve showed me 2 brake lines.

It has 1 going from the caliper to a small junction near the base of the suspension and the other brake line connecting from that junction to inside the engine bay.

[red900ss]

ahh yeah same same, I thought you meant 2 lines to the caliper (like in parallel) .

[4 Doorz]

So what exactly does braided lines do for you?

Is it just increased pedal feel or better braking as well - wouldn't it be cheaper to just get brake cylinder brace as first step?

[benm]

I've already got a master cylinder brace.

The braided lines stop the standard rubber lines from expanding under pressure and heat... afaik.

[benm]

Still having issues after having all the above work done (including braided lines).

Looks like my Master Cylinder is faulty. If anybody knows where I can buy 1 (or a repair kit) please pm me.

[JimX]

I think Nissan themselves sell the rebuild kit for under $50. Someone here mentioned it a few weeks ago, I think it's the same as another type of locally-released master cylinder (could be 200sx) so you might not have to wait for them to import it if so. Try searching.

[benm]

Interesting, might have to give them a call, thanks Jimah

[benm]

all good, RaceBrakes managed to find a repair kit ($125) so its being delivered tomorrow + 2-3hrs of labour and im back on the road whoooo.

[R31Nismoid]

yes... i'm doing my full upgrade at race brakes here in Vic and i'm more than happy so far with them!

They are doing their ADR braided lines and bustom two piece rotor setup amongst other things.

But to the argument on prices, the Race Brakes ones include fitting. The $83 for the others ones probably wont if they are sent in the mail ?!@?!

[benm]

Well I got my Master Cylinder 'repair kit' done and it gave me -some- pressure back but I obviously still have issues with my Master Cylinder.

So soon as rego n crap is over next week i'll be saving for a new Master Cylinder from Nissan Japan Think its going to cost something like ~$500 fitted.