Ecu's

[BigEngland]

Hi everyone just joined up on this forum today seems like theres plenty of these cars around now so was looking for some help on my ecu choice! At the moment i am in the process of fully decking out my engine bay! So far i  have managed to only do the turboback exhaust and frontmount on the car while running the stock turbo at 11-12psi. Now i am replacing the stock with a gt35/40 garrett internal waste gated turbo with a 0.63 rear housing to jump on boost quickly in auto and am also doing a custom fuel rail with 660cc bosch top feed injectors, installin a turbosmart e boost 2 boost control to replace the manual turbosmart one on there currently replacin the oil and water lines oil filter fuel pump etc. now what i want a little help on is finding the best possible ecu to help with the immense power which will be coming through this as i continue to work more and more on it down the track! I have heard the greddy e manage ultimate is a good unit for the stageas? and also herd good things about power fc's from local drivers here but are these power fc's compatible with a tiptronic setup at all? and where is the best place to buy from!!<BR>looking for as many replies as possible as the more info i get the more options i have to search and learn about them, so please post ur replies! i will be posting pics soon of the progress on my car so far so keep tuned!

[Tangles]

a remap to the standard ecu could be the best choice.

wolf v-500 might be doable, Im not sure

about to try the powerfc with my series 1 stnd auto.......

[BigEngland]

a remap to the standard ecu could be the best choice.

wolf v-500 might be doable, Im not sure

about to try the powerfc with my series 1 stnd auto.......

wat about the e manage ultimate unite tho from greddy? have herd mixed results from that seems to work great as per some cars from this forum but local performance shops here in perth tend to have another opinion on them! maybe as to the fact that they dont know what they are doing with these units as they are not the easiest to get results from unless the installer really knows wat to do with them? whos an australian retailer for wolf v 500's i cant seem to find any apart from there website

[unique1]

wat about the e manage ultimate unite tho from greddy? have herd mixed results from that seems to work great as per some cars from this forum but local performance shops here in perth tend to have another opinion on them! maybe as to the fact that they dont know what they are doing with these units as they are not the easiest to get results from unless the installer really knows wat to do with them? whos an australian retailer for wolf v 500's i cant seem to find any apart from there website

The Wolf man to see in Perth is Top Racing, Steve Thomas is the tuner and has done wolfs for years and years.

http://www.topracing.com.au/

[Spunky Munky]

a remap to the standard ecu could be the best choice.

wolf v-500 might be doable, Im not sure

about to try the powerfc with my series 1 stnd auto.......

Apexi PowerFC on an automatic Skyline? I heard this is not possible...??

[chuckie]

WHAT ABOUT THE EMS STINGER I HAVE BEEN TOLD GOOD THING ABOUT THEM,BARRIE`S DYNO 93505829,HE`S AN AGENT FOR EMS ,GOOD LUCK BIG ENGLAND,ALLSO GOOD TO SEE ANOTHER STAGEA IN PERTH,SEE YOU AROUND,CHEER`S chuckie.

[Sydneykid]

Welcome, you will find SAU is the most informative forum on Skylines anywhere in the world. Being new to the forum the first thing you should learn how to do is use the search button. Use it frequently.

Once you have done a search you will find that there is no ECU that is 100% suitable for an auto Skyline. They are all compromised in one way. Nissan uses extensive logic (programming) of the engine ECU to protect the auto gearbox on gear changes. This is accomplished by a complex set of ignition retard and cut mapping that is designed to remove the variations in engine load from the gearbox input while it is changing gear, that's up shift and down shift. So that there is no confusion I should point out that there is a separate gearbox ECU which does exactly (an only) that, control the gearbox itself. The engine ECU has nothing to do with when the gearbox changes gear, its task is simply to retard/cut the ignition to protect the gearbox and make the change smooth and seamless. It's one of the reasons (the main reason) why Nissan autos last so long.

A Nissan engineeer told me some years ago that the gearbox protection mapping in the engine ECU actually contains more code than that required to get the engine to run. As a result of that complexity no ECU manufacturer (not even Apexi with the Power FC) has spent the programming time required to develop a set of aftermarket maps. So don't bother looking for one, they don't exist and probably never will.

As your search will reveal there are partial solutions;

1. Ditch the auto and go manual

2. Use piggy backs to trick the standard ECU, there is a limit as to how far you can go power wise with that approach. Around 265 rwkw seems to be the limit there.

3. Change the auto gearbox to a more durable drag spec style with the strength to survive full throttle upshifts. There is no power limit with this approach, there are autos with 1,000 bhp.

4. Strengthen up the standard auto gearbox with hydraulic mods (valve body change), once again there is a limit as to how far you can go power wise with that approach. Around 300 rwkw seems to be the limit there.

5. Do a proper job on the gearbox, the valve body change plus upgraded bands and clutches. I don't know anyone who has exceed 400 rwkw with this approach, but more than that is possible.

With options 1, 3, 4 and 5 it doesn't matter which ECU you use, none of them have the mapping logic. So simply choose the one that has a good tuner that you can use locally. That's more important than any minor differences in the ECU's themselves. All of them will "run" the engine, with the Power FC probably being the easiest to install and giving the closest to standard "niceness" to drive and live with everyday. If you want "advanced" functions like antilag, launch control, data logging, intercooler spray control etc, then a Motec or Autronic would be my choices.

Merry Xmas, enjoy the search button, it is your best freind

Gary

[Tangles]

good little review there gary

merry xmas 2 you and family.

[jippa]

emanage ultimate is the ecu i was looking at, i know it has been instaled in a series 1 and can be installed in an s2. ask for mark at cred as he has recently been at some training over east on the emanage units. seems like a good option to me and i hear it can change shift points on your auto.not shure if mark can get that bit to work unless u want to be the guinea pig and i can go after u. halltec is another option but i have not looked into it to much. will post when i get more info

[FelixTRX]

How about getting Dr.Drift to remap the standard ECU? I know it's about $1300 but all factory Nissan goodies that have been mentioned get left alone!

Cheers, Greg.

[leetom]

one way to get sk back on is to mention ecu's in auto skylines, good to see you back gary, by the way i dont think i,ve heard you discuss re-mapping any thoughts there gary?

[Sydneykid]

one way to get sk back on is to mention ecu's in auto skylines, good to see you back gary, by the way i dont think i,ve heard you discuss re-mapping any thoughts there gary?

I really only talk about stuff I have tried myself. I haven't had a remapped ECU since the original R32GTR with RB30DET and that was nearly 7 years ago. What we found then, and I can't see it being that much different now, was that there were limitations on how far away from the "standard" maps you could go. So it was full of compromises, pretty much the same compromises as we face with piggy backs. If your modifications fit within the "window" then they are a good way to go. But if you want something a bit more, then you hit the wall.

Let me try an 3 example. With a larger turbo fitted (T04E) we wanted to improve the response. The best way is by advancing the ignition timing. Since the bigger turbo is not generating as much boost (at the rpm and airflow that the standard turbo is) there was an opportunity to advance the ignition timing A LOT, over 20 degrees in fact. But the standard ECU simply wouldn't let us do it, it had some form of limit built in that stopped us going that far. There were similar limits on fuel tuning because of the dramatic change in boost characteristics of the turbo. So we ended up with a compromised tune.

No doubt things are better now, with much more knowledge around, so the tuning limits may well be higher. But (the big one) I can tune, by myself, my Skylines/Stagea with a Power FC, a Motec, an Autronic, a Haltec or a Microtech. I can't tune with a ROM upgrade because I don't have the knowledge or the equipment. So it's not a cost effective solution for me.

Cheers

Gary

[BigEngland]

Welcome, you will find SAU is the most informative forum on Skylines anywhere in the world. Being new to the forum the first thing you should learn how to do is use the search button. Use it frequently.

Once you have done a search you will find that there is no ECU that is 100% suitable for an auto Skyline. They are all compromised in one way. Nissan uses extensive logic (programming) of the engine ECU to protect the auto gearbox on gear changes. This is accomplished by a complex set of ignition retard and cut mapping that is designed to remove the variations in engine load from the gearbox input while it is changing gear, that's up shift and down shift. So that there is no confusion I should point out that there is a separate gearbox ECU which does exactly (an only) that, control the gearbox itself. The engine ECU has nothing to do with when the gearbox changes gear, its task is simply to retard/cut the ignition to protect the gearbox and make the change smooth and seamless. It's one of the reasons (the main reason) why Nissan autos last so long.

A Nissan engineeer told me some years ago that the gearbox protection mapping in the engine ECU actually contains more code than that required to get the engine to run. As a result of that complexity no ECU manufacturer (not even Apexi with the Power FC) has spent the programming time required to develop a set of aftermarket maps. So don't bother looking for one, they don't exist and probably never will.

As your search will reveal there are partial solutions;

1. Ditch the auto and go manual

2. Use piggy backs to trick the standard ECU, there is a limit as to how far you can go power wise with that approach. Around 265 rwkw seems to be the limit there.

3. Change the auto gearbox to a more durable drag spec style with the strength to survive full throttle upshifts. There is no power limit with this approach, there are autos with 1,000 bhp.

4. Strengthen up the standard auto gearbox with hydraulic mods (valve body change), once again there is a limit as to how far you can go power wise with that approach. Around 300 rwkw seems to be the limit there.

5. Do a proper job on the gearbox, the valve body change plus upgraded bands and clutches. I don't know anyone who has exceed 400 rwkw with this approach, but more than that is possible.

With options 1, 3, 4 and 5 it doesn't matter which ECU you use, none of them have the mapping logic. So simply choose the one that has a good tuner that you can use locally. That's more important than any minor differences in the ECU's themselves. All of them will "run" the engine, with the Power FC probably being the easiest to install and giving the closest to standard "niceness" to drive and live with everyday. If you want "advanced" functions like antilag, launch control, data logging, intercooler spray control etc, then a Motec or Autronic would be my choices.

Merry Xmas, enjoy the search button, it is your best freind

Gary

Thanks for that review there gary very informative cleared my mind quite bit cheers! im currently looking at a haltech

Thanks for the review there gary very informative cleared my mind quite a bit cheers! im currently looking at purchasing a halteck e11v2 ecu and working the gearbox properly as per numbers 4 and 5 quoted above! 5 is the ideal solution as it will therefore be fine once the turbo starts to really get tuned up to a serius performance level. Would have any idea as to how much either might cost to get done?

merry xmas for tomoro all

[MyStag260]

hey guys great thread, sorry to hijack a little but just have a few questions to ask. Mainly to do with the Power FCs they seem to be massivly popular everyone seems to know them is that because they are really good? or cheap and just perform a bit better job than the stock ecu. I called a bloke who was an autronic tuner etc and the things he was saying that were so a big plus for the autronic were things like u said garry antilag etc... but i don't want any of that i just want the injectors tuned and timing tunned real good for whatever sort of turbo etc. Don't want to go big internal bore etc mods, so will the Power FC do these sorts of things alright?

Cheers sorry for the hijack

[b8r]

merry xmas everyone ! I have been running the emanage ultimate for the last year or so, an consider it to be a viable upgrade, but like stated previously itll only take you so far.

currently with the vg30 turbo the rb25det managed 180 awk on around 1 bar boost. Any more boost and itll hit r&r. The car feels great on the road and is nice and responsive.

Im happy as hell with this power level more than enough for me, rarley the right foot reaches the floor.

[iijj]

merry xmas everyone ! I have been running the emanage ultimate for the last year or so, an consider it to be a viable upgrade, but like stated previously itll only take you so far.

currently with the vg30 turbo the rb25det managed 180 awk on around 1 bar boost. Any more boost and itll hit r&r. The car feels great on the road and is nice and responsive.

Im happy as hell with this power level more than enough for me, rarley the right foot reaches the floor.

What does it FEEL like when you hit rich & retard??? Is it similar to the feeling of hitting the top speed limiter? Like an instant power cut for like a second or so??? My boost controller says I'm only boosting to 0.85 bar but even on lower boost of 0.6 it will still do this occasionally! Ta!

Merry Xmas all!

[pixel8r]

What does it FEEL like when you hit rich & retard??? Is it similar to the feeling of hitting the top speed limiter? Like an instant power cut for like a second or so??? My boost controller says I'm only boosting to 0.85 bar but even on lower boost of 0.6 it will still do this occasionally! Ta!

Merry Xmas all!

I believe there are 2 different effects you may feel. One is when the engine switches to the "failsafe" fuel mapping that is R&R - this feels like a sudden flat/dead spot and doesn't really accelerate the same. The second is when the ecu detects excessive airflow or something (maybe the AFM maxing out?) and cuts the fuel/ignition briefly or something like that - i dont know exactly, but I have felt it and its like everything cuts out, for a half second or so, and then cuts back in just as suddenly and keeps going.

I think these 2 things are just different manifestations of R&R and are cured by the same thing, some kind of tuning for the AFM to "trick" the ecu into believing all is ok.

As for what ecu's are available, as Gary mentioned, look at a "shift kit" (valve body upgrade) for the auto first, and then you have more choices. My choice (always budget conscious) would be the GReddy emanage blue. Its not as feature packed as the ultimate but very affordable (<$400 from nengun) and way better than an Apexi SAFC as far as tunability.

However, I've never done this before so I'm only guessing these can be used. They are a piggyback so your stock ecu is still working, it just taps into the sensors etc. and uses your factory tune as a "base tune" to work from. A while ago some people had issues with coilpacks packing up with the emanage (ultimate i think) but this issue has long been resolved now. Plenty of people use and recommend this ecu. The powerFC is the most common by far but a little more expensive...and is a standalone replacement ecu rather than a piggyback.

Bottom line is whatever you choose, make sure your tuner knows how to install/tune them, or choose a tuner that knows how to tune that specific one on your car, because in the end that will make more difference than the ecu itself.

[Sydneykid]

Thanks for the review there gary very informative cleared my mind quite a bit cheers! im currently looking at purchasing a halteck e11v2 ecu and working the gearbox properly as per numbers 4 and 5 quoted above! 5 is the ideal solution as it will therefore be fine once the turbo starts to really get tuned up to a serius performance level. Would have any idea as to how much either might cost to get done?

merry xmas for tomoro all

Valve body upgrade is around $500 in parts, that's the replacement (exchange) valve body itself, transmission fluid and filter. If you don't DIY, labour would be around $100 or so. One of the guys did a Group Buy with MV Autos in SA and the saving was $100 or so. The Stagea S1 auto is the same as the R33GTST auto, so plenty of guys to join in. Check out the Group Buy section.

The full auto upgrade is around $3K (including the valve body upgrade) as it involves a lot of parts and is most definitely not a DIY project. Except removing the gearbox yourself if you want/can.

As with everything mechanical, you get nothing for nothing. The valve body upgade gives faster shifts that are also firmer, hence not as smooth. The full upgrade adds quite a bit to that, not quite as bad as a savage manual gearbocx change, but certainly much harsher than standard. Add to that the lack of ignition retard and you end up with heavy handed manual gearchange feel, all of the time. You will find yourself backing off the throttle, anticipating the gearchange, just to smooth it out a little.

Bottom line, don't expect anything like the nice smooth gearchanges you get now.

Happy New Year

Gary