Aircon Regassers In Melbourne That Use Hychill Hr12 Gas

[Shaker351]

Hi, I'm new to this forum so forgive me if I'm asking questions in the incorrect area ! Main reason for this is I was browsing for info re : HyChill Minus30 formley HyChill HR12 & was directed to this forum. I have since joined & would appreciate any info or suggestions .

My main question refers to a portable fridge freezer which is gassed with R12. Firstly I presume the HyChill will be compatible & availability of pressured gas cans ( I only require approximately 150-200gm of the refrigerant gas ). After reading this forum I am seriously thinking of changing the gas in my Falcon.

Any Help or Suggestions would be much appreciated.

[level323]

Hey there Shaker351.

You're in luck. I actually work for HyChill. Not only that, but I'm a proud skyline owner! '89 Gts-t 4 door RB25DET 280rwkw... and of course the AC runs cold as ice on HyChill Minus 30 ;-)

It's funny how many times I see enquiries like this on various forums. I say it's funny because I know that all you need to do is call us and we'll give you a list of our last known HyChill-using workshops in your local area.

Specifically, call Ross on 0407 545 548 and he'll get you the info you're after.

I guess many people think of companies generally just want to sell stuff and don't want to talk with customers - but we don't work that way. Call us any time and we'll do our best to help (even if you're using other gases!).

Cheers

John W Clark

Technical Advisor

HyChill

[Shaker351]

Hi John,

I'm not always this lucky but many thanks for your advice & reply. I do realise that I'm not only asking advice in the wrong forum but I now own a vechicle that in 2016 will most probably will be unserviceable ( Ford Australia ) ? Looks like a change to a 'Skyline', which most probably will be a good thing ( I think they did win Bathurst awhile back).

Back to the HyChill subject, I did notice on one of HyChill's internet pages a vechicle being serviced and a can of HyChill ( possibly 300-400gm can ) with attached flexible hose & service attachment's. Hopefully if I could purchase a can complete with filler hose then I could regas using a service valve attached to my small fridge after Vac & save the expense of a new fridge ( $1g )? Doesn't help when your a pensioner & the manufactures advice is to chuck it !

Anyhow no sob stories, many thanks again & I will give Ross a ring.

Cheers, Dennis ( NSW Northern Tablelands ).

[level323]

Hi Dennis,

For some reason I didn't get a notification when you replied - so sorry for the delay in responding.

Yes, we do supply Minus 30 in 300 gram cans (they look like aerosol cans). We don't advertise to end-users - we focus on supplying tradespersons. However, there is ultimately nothing stopping you from getting the gas, hoses etc from one of our distributors and DIYing it. Keep in mind though that it is illegal to handle R134a (the traditional refrigerant that is normally fitted to vehicles at point of manufacture) without an ARC license, so the proper course of removing the R134a is to take the vehicle to an ARC licensed tradesperson and have them recover the R134a gas first. This is the law because R134a is an extremely potent greenhouse gas.

As to your fridge - if it runs on R134a then Minus 30 will work in it's place, however I would suggest you think carefully before going down this route, for the following reasons::

1. The hazards surrounding the use of a hydrocarbon refrigerant as a "drop in" replacement to R134a in a fridge are actually significantly higher than using it in your car AC. The reason is that the interior space in the fridge is a quite tightly sealed space and some fridges (especially the older ones) may have sparking components within that space (thermostats, door switches etc). In open spaces, if you're lucky (or unlucky) enough to get a hydrocarbon ignition, it typically results in a fairly uneventful "flash fire" that flames out in under one second with minimal secondary impacts. However, ignition inside an enclosed space (such as inside a fridge) can lead to a dramatic build-up of pressure which could result in a rather dramatic rupture of the fridge like an explosion. There are documented cases of this happening (albeit rare). It's also occurred as a result of faulty whipped cream cans leaking their pressurisation fluid into the interior of the fridge. That said, around half of the worlds fridges now use hydrocarbons, but these fridges are all designed specifically with non-sparking components to eliminate the possibility of ignition in the rare case that there is a leak of just the right amount, at just the right time, at just the right location, to pose a flammability risk.

2. Fridges use very low charges of refrigerant. In the case of current models of hydrocarbon fridges the charges are typically around 60 grams. You really need to have experience with charging fridges and possess sufficiently precise tools in order to avoid overcharging or undercharging. Getting the charge wrong will (at best) result in poor efficiency and (at worst) significantly shorten the life of your compressor.

There's a bit to think about in there so I'll leave it at that for now.

Cheers!

John

[Rolls]

Only the most honest sales person discusses solid reasons not to sell a product to a potential buyer. Gotta give you credit for that.

[level323]

Thanks Rolls. As with any successful business that's in it for the "long haul" the success comes from creating happy and informed customers, not quick sales.

Cheers

John

Edited May 30, 2013 by level323

[EliseViv]

This post is 18 months old, but just saved me a WHOLE heap of grief, as I though i had to change everything.

Thanks to the collective "brainstrust", and Ill be sure to document my progress over the next few weeks on this thread.

Regards

Brett

[EliseViv]

Hi Peeps,

How much of the HR SRO Oil should I put in. I've drained the old oil out, but cannot find a "weight" to put it back in?

Its a boggo, R32 GTST (1989) RB20DET.

Cheers

Brett

[level323]

Hi Brett,

Unless you've physically disassembed every part in the circuit and individually drained (and flushed, using an appropriate fluid that will flush the lubricant) there will almost certainly be some oil left in the system. This means that even if you know the correct quantity of oil that should be in the system for optimal operation, you will have a tough time knowing exactly how much to put in in your particular circumstances because of this unknown quantity of residual lubricant.

I hope that makes sense :-)

Before we go further, could you clairify what you mean by "I've drained the old oil out"? Could you explain what you did in a little more detail. I need to get a better handle on the proportion of oil you've likely removed.

Cheers

John

Hi Peeps,

How much of the HR SRO Oil should I put in. I've drained the old oil out, but cannot find a "weight" to put it back in?

Its a boggo, R32 GTST (1989) RB20DET.

Cheers

Brett

[EliseViv]

Hi John,

Been busy till now, so holidays just arrived and toy is out again.

So the complete story.

Moved to Isa from Tassie and Aircon is a must!

I had the system evacuated by the local Nad-Rad, expecting that a $500 re-gas and it would work, but they scared the crapper out of me with a quote which indicated the Skyline is a write-off!

So I did the e-bay shuffle bought a vacuum pump and a set of gauges, taps etc, ~$200 all up

- a dryer receiver from Repco (part # RD5010) ~$50

- and a couple cans of Hychill and some Hychill AC oil from Burson's, ~$75

and watched a dozen or so videos on youtube to get the idea on how to read the gauges.

So plugged the gauges onto to a work car that had the ac functioning, and was exactly as per Hoyle, and got a good practical feel on how it all works.

So onto the R32 RB20DET Skyline

The system still had a vacuum on it from the Natrad people. (About 2 months ago)

Put the Vacuum pump on the system and pulled about -22mmhg instantly, and about -25 (ish) after 5 minutes. Turned off the taps, and it stayed there over night. I then replaced the receiver dryer and re-vacummed for 30 mins.

I shut off the taps at the gauges, and put the can of Hychill onto the "centre yellow hose" hose, and bled it at the gauges till the hychill fluid came out of the bleed point. I opened the low "blue" side and the fluid flowed in (could see it in the sight glass in the gauges).

The low pressure side climbed rapidly to 80mmhg, and stayed there. I started the car, put the AC on "FC" (down to 18 and then held the down button till Full Cold "FC" came on). The engine lifts a few revs, I presume expecting the power drain from the AC compressor, but the compressor simply wont come on..

The pressure climbed slowly to 100mmhg and stayed there for an hour before I gave up.

I left the engine running, checked fuses etc, but couldn't see anything a miss in the obvious.

So next I was going to "jump" the AC compressor to make it run, but thought I better check here first.

I didnt put any oil in, as there didn't seem to be any in the RD5010, and nothing is obviously being sucked out by the vacuum pump.

Any help gratefully taken :-)

Cheers

Brett

0419388038

[EliseViv]

Oh and one can of Hychill feels about half full (can compare with he unopened one :-)). So I guess I got 150-200 grams of gas in.

[level323]

Gday Brett

I had the system evacuated by the local Nad-Rad, expecting that a $500 re-gas and it would work, but they scared the crapper out of me with a quote which indicated the Skyline is a write-off!

First things first... re your mention of this weird quote from NatRad. Specifically what did NatRad say about your AC system? What was their diagnosis?

PS - Apologies in advance if the holiday period adds additional delays in responding over the next two weeks or so.

Cheers

John

[EliseViv]

Hi John,

Firstly the skyline is a toy, so I'm never stressed on timelines. The work 'rolla, will always have functioning aircon :-).

Natrad effectively refused to quote, and pleaded ignorance (couldnt find a dryer even), told me that R134A would not work, and that I would need to replace everything including the condensor, as the higher pressures would potentially bust the system. They put 134A nipples on the system, evacced the old gas, regasses it with 134A, diagnosed a "blockage" and then evacced the gas and left it in a vaccum. The cost was a few sheckles from $400, which I expected, but hoped it would work.

To be fair, the bloke doing the work wasn't difficult to deal with, nor was he rude, but if I put myself in his shoes, he saw a 30 year old jap import, and a middle aged balding bloke who was trying to recapture his boyhood. I suspect he wanted me to go away! At which point I did a bit of internet research.

I seem to have also hit this "blockage" as I also have only been able to get 150 or so grammes of fluid in the system, so their diagnosis wasnt wrong. I just think I can do better than their prognosis for my wallet.

I didn't pursue them after that as its clear they are not interested, and that is not an issue for me as I'm happy to invest in my own knowledge and tools. They are not obliged to look after middle aged balding blokes with old jap imports ;-)

Cheers

Brett

Edited December 23, 2014 by EliseViv

[level323]

Hi again,

$400 later and all you were left with was an evacuated non-functioning system. Ouch!

NatRad wasn't lying that R134a wouldn't work in your system. Even if there was no "blockage", charging the system with R134a (flushing beforehand) would never perform well and ultimately likely end in the death of your system. Google R134a black death" to learn more.

What they didn't tell you was that if your system was in all respects functioning (just requiring refrigerant), then you would get great results with HyChill Minus 30. People's opinions on whether not hydrocarbons are a legitimate option has been turned into a controversy by those seeking to protect their existing control of this market. Therefore, many workshops (like your local Natrad, by the sounds of it) won't offer it as an option, despite the fact that the Australian Government's own studies show that hydrocarbons have at least 8% market share in Australia (download the PDF linked HERE and see 3rd last para on p30) and it's on record as being commercialised in car AC for over 20 years with no significant negative safety trends - and despite the most important fact of all.... namely that it's far and away the most cost effective path to a functioning AC system for you (and one that kicks ass, performance-wise).

OK, so back to trying to get your system working.... It seems clear that you have some functional problem with your system. I think it's a fairly safe bet that there is indeed a blockage of some kind. That needs to be resolved as a priority (and any other faults that may exist). Forget about charging the system with refrigerant until you isolate and rectify these faults.

My expertise centers around hydrocarbon safety. May I introduce you to one of our motor vehicle AC specialists who can assist you further? If so, PM me your preferred contact methods (phone numbers, email, whatever).

Cheers

John

[Rolls]

$400 just to empty the system???

You can get an entire new compressor for $1k, I would be going back to them and politely (or not so politely) asking for a large lump of that money back!

[EliseViv]

Not sure of the etiquette here....BUT IT F&^KING works :-)

Cold cold air, and 33C and 50% humidity currently in Townsville and I am an ICY cool 40 something balding fat man in my 30 year old import :-)

So what happened.

I rehooked up the HVAC gauges and put the hychill can back on the refill hose to see if I could get more than 80mmhg in the low pressure side.

I jumped the ac clutch at the relay box (pulled the AC Relay and put a "BIG" bit of wire across the switch (I think 2 and 7). Use plyers as it will get hot.

The clutch jumped into life and I noticed the gauges reacted instantly. The Can of Hychill got cold as it emptied its contents into the system where it belongs :-)

Pulled out my jump wire, put the relay back in, and it seems to be functioning

So Ive got 300-400grams of hychill in there.

Sat in the cabin and enjoyed the ICY cold blast.

Did a short trip and enjoyed the windows wound up sitting at traffic lights wondering if I need a sweatshirt to keep warm.

So Thanks to the collective, ONE HAPPY CAMPER here

[EliseViv]

BTW I think the AC compressor must have simply stopped at a point where it blocked off the filling system and all I had to do was "move" the pump internals so enough pressure was in the system to kick the pressure switch on.

So next question.

How do I know if there is enough oil in the system

and what is the correct HYChill volume for the R32.

The gauges are a bit erratic, so I suspect I cant rely on them as a reading, but I have 60-100mmhg on low pressure and 150-180 on the high pressure.

Also my sensors are shot, as I have to have it on FC to work, but Ill sort those the same way as everyone else.

[RB335]

To know if there is enough oil in the system, after running the a/c for a a while, you need to degas the system, remove the compressor and drain its oil, if you manage to drain about 20-50ml you know that there is an average to good amount of oil in the compressor and therefore the system has a decent amount of oil. If you only can drain a few drops from it then you know that the compressor is running low on oil and therefore the whole system is low on oil.

I'm unsure what sort of guage setup you are using or if you are reading them correctly, and why you are measuring normal operating pressures in mmhg. If you are measuring 100mmhg (2 PSI) on the low side indicates there is a serious fault.

[EliseViv]

Hi RB335 Thanks for the heads up on how to check oil. Was worried as i had no idea how much was in it. So i took the compressor out today and drained 7ml out of it. So glad i did!! So what is the recommended amount to put back in. Also can I tip it in the compressor? Or in via gas fill line.

Edited December 28, 2014 by EliseViv

[EliseViv]

Also i had put in about 300 grams of hychill, what is the recommended amount? My gauges are cheap and im thinking they are not reliable enough to test with, so an empty fill will need to do.

Edited December 28, 2014 by EliseViv