2008 F1 Season

[wolverine]

Yeah- You'd wanna hope the worlds most profitable car manufacturer could find some pace

the experience they have built up during the manufacture of 4 billion corollas, the diligence and care designing the avalon or more correctly the pimped & stretched camry has made all the difference.

two thumbs up for keeping many +50yr olds heart rates up.

two thumbs up for their F1 team, better late than never.

[m3gtr]

Just incase anyone of us forgot the most monumental crash we have ever witnessed a modern day F1 driver walk away from...

awesomely done in 3D

[m3gtr]

Your forgeting that in 1999 and 2000 the Jordans were basically on par with the Williams in terms of race speed... Mika's Mac and Schu's Fez were really the two horses of the F1 show... Behind them you had some experienced drivers that would put in very good drives that often performed beyond their machinery... May I mention Verstappen and his Arrows? Alesi in the Prost, and later at Jordan in 2001... Even at this stage the Benettons of Fisi and Wurz were competetive on their day... Jenson was a rookie thrown into a genuine midfield team that was in its first year of an engine deal (BMW, as prior in 1998 and 1999 Williams used Mechacrhome and Supertech respectively)...

Williams circa 2000 WAS NOT McLaren 2007/8, you must be joking....

I still have the commentary from the Melbourne 2000 race (Thanks VHS!)... I especially recall Murray saying something along the lines of "And look at Jenson Button, in his first race and he's cutting through the field like a hot knife through butter"... Even so, I realise he never made the podium that season but he brought the car home on many occasions and often in the points... Same thing goes for Webbo... FFS he started in a Minardi... When he finished 5th in 2002 he did a supreme job to keep a Toyota behind him (Salo I think) throughout the closing laps... First race, home crowd, slowest car on the grid...

Take even Kimi and Massa for examples, they both drove at Sauber in 2001... Sauber was probably on par with Arrows as a rear midfield team... Not exactly the most prestegious start to one's career... The Mac let go a potential World Champion in favour of an unknown quantity with Hamilton, with his easy nature and his race experience, and with the 2007 car, Kimi would've won the WDC for the Mac... However they wanted the golden boy and the British media and they literally handed the prancing horse it's lost glory.... Very few people have had the grooming that Hamilton has had throughout his career, you don't need to be a 12y/o sign up to be a world champion... You need character, that is build by hurling a Jordan to 7th place at Spa Francochamps with a Ford V8 on debut, it is build by catching the 'Professor' Prost in the wet, at Monaco in a Toleman...

Hamilton may very well become a champion in years to come... However... He won't ever have that 'steely' edge that the best of the best acquire naturally by driving beyond the limits of inferior machinery and extracting every last ounce of performance, to go quicker in a slower car than a slower driver in a 'faster' car... You can't buy that, you can't fund that... Loiuse's journey has denied him of that experience and he will never be the recipient of the benefits of that hard path... On that note, THAT is why aside from the 'fan boys' and ITV, no where as many people will ever hold Hammo in such high regard as Schumacher, Senna, Clark, Stewart, Fangio, Ascari, Prost ect ect ect... In fact, I reckon you'll find more people (British aside) that would not necissarily 'like' Alonso more, but would in fact 'respect' him more... A good driver should always be tempered and tested by tough challenges, competing in inferior vehicles and other such obsticles... No matter if Hamilton broke every F1 record in the book.... His own fostering (ie: Spoonfed by 'Uncle Ronnie') will ultimately become his own demise in the minds of true Formula 1 fans, enthusiasts and commentators...

That was fantastic. Pure and simple and i couldnt agree more..except...

Yes, Senna was prodigious throughout his career and especially in his early years with Lotus and Toleman. He was a master in the wet, only rivaled for skill by MS himself. Undoubtedly, there have been times when inferior machinery was made to look better than it was because of the hands steering it but one thing i want to add to that is this...

Just because Lewis Hamilton had been handed the keys to one of the most competitive cars on the grid in his first year in F1, doesn't mean it detracts from any of the awesome skill we all know he naturally possesses. Going by your argument Marco, you would have it that he start in Webber's shoes, in a Minardi much like Alonso or like Massa and Raikkonnen in a Sauber. Yes, prove his worth before being able to "rightfully" take those keys but you're forgetting one important point.

Ron Dennis is no fool.

Ron Dennis knows F1 drivers. He knows when he sees something special and Lewis Hamilton is no different ( Bloody hell, im starting to sound like James Allen here... )

Ron Dennis has had the Creme de la Creme of drivers in his 20 something years in F1, modern day names like Senna, Prost and Hakkinen and yet, he invested HEAVILY in the career of a youngster that hadn't even hit 10 years of age, a young kid that knew even at that age, where he wanted to be and what he wanted to be doing.

Before we get further into this discussion, we need to give credit to a guy that saw this as early as he did and took care of the person in question.

That speaks volumes for me and its nice to know a driver is being looked after, really looked after and not dumped by the wayside like so many names we care to mention when things aren't going so well or when the coffers run dry. Just look at the way poor Fisi was left out with the garbage by Renault only to be thrown a lifeline by F.I. Wow, now that i think about it i could run that list into the hundreds.

Its no surprise then that RD had no qualms about letting an F1 champion "go", as you would have it, because RD and MB have invested so much time in the development of LH with the absolutely clear and rational expectation that LH will be champion in the future soon anyway. LH was only 1 point, 1 POINT away from realizing this and repaying the many years of faith that RD and MB had correctly placed in him. Not a bad achievement, really.

Honestly, we need to look in FA's direction to ask why and how he couldn't have known this. BMW were similarly ruthless when they axed JV at the end of 2006 but i don't see anyone crying over that spilled milk.

Hamilton does have that "steely" edge you speak of Marco. He always has and that's why RD has invested in him the way he has. I see no problem with this and who are we to say that Ron Dennis doesn't know what he's doing?

Edited April 7, 2008 by m3gtr

[m3gtr]

Yeah- You'd wanna hope the worlds most profitable car manufacturer could find some pace after 6 years worth of F1 racing (not to mention copious experience in a myriad of other categories) and around $3 Billion dollars investment, but i digress....

Not gonna talk about Hami much- Yeah, he had a dogs**t weekend, but I still think he'll make most of you eat your words in time.

As for Webber- If he was gunna amount to anything substantial, it would have happened ages ago. He's almost at the end of his career anyway. I'd like to see the ex-pat get up as much as the next guy, but it's just not on the cards.

1.Agree.

2.Agree

3.Disagree. Why? I know he still has it. It was "happening" ages ago. He strangled pace out of the cat for 2 years and unfortunately political maneuvering got him a "going downhill before we go uphill" Williams, instead of the potential Championship winning seat next to Alonso at Renault. Remember, both drivers are managed by Briatore so there is way more going on there than what you perceive as going over the hill.

he will assume head mantle at Red Bull when DC retires at the end of this year and next years car will be much stronger than this years what with Newey, Willis, Horner, Webber and crew to get it there.

You'll see.

[m3gtr]

monza?

Ivan youre right, Monza 2000.

I miss the good old days...

This was the most amazing conference ever...ill never forget that interview...

Edited April 7, 2008 by m3gtr

[sh@un]

What I'd like to see, is Adrian Newey doing aero back at McLaren

[dezz]

was quite an emotional conference..I've watched it more than a few times now and it moves me everytime

[m3gtr]

What I'd like to see, is Adrian Newey doing aero back at McLaren

I feel differently Shaun. RBR need him in the same way Honda need RB and FI need MG.

This year will be good, they are solid midfield and they will only get better with the team they have.

Im sad because DC is the last of the "old school" brigade we all grew to love and respect.

[m3gtr]

was quite an emotional conference..I've watched it more than a few times now and it moves me everytime

Totally. Almost as much as when he won that day his mom died. MS is definitely one of the greatest drivers ever and im glad to have met him and to have been old enough to appreciate his career.

The guard has changed now and i feel we are little worse off without those characters in our lives.

Sappy, perhaps but those of us that know, know.

[sh@un]

I feel differently Shaun. RBR need him in the same way Honda need RB and FI need MG.

Yes, but you're forgetting one important fact: I'm the one-eyed McLaren fan, so what's best for them is best for me!

[m3gtr]

Yes, but you're forgetting one important fact: I'm the one-eyed McLaren fan, so what's best for them is best for me!

Lol, i know Shaun, you've said it 3 times in you're avatar already!

What is best for Newey is best for RBR. You know?

[dezz]

Totally. Almost as much as when he won that day his mom died. MS is definitely one of the greatest drivers ever and im glad to have met him and to have been old enough to appreciate his career.

The guard has changed now and i feel we are little worse off without those characters in our lives.

Sappy, perhaps but those of us that know, know.

This one too...

One thing I'll never forget about MS is that every single time he got up on the top step of the podium, you'd swear it was his first win if you didn't know any better.

[sh@un]

Lol, i know Shaun, you've said it 3 times in you're avatar already!

my expertly, painstakingly, ms-paint image composited Av

it is my surname too though

One thing I'll never forget about MS is that every single time he got up on the top step of the podium, you'd swear it was his first win if you didn't know any better.

one of the key reasons he was so successful- he always had a hunger for it. just made him do A-hole things too often though.

[m3gtr]

That was an amazing conference. It staggered me that he announced it just after securing the win and then significantly, he "placed" the "crown" on PM's head, with KR sitting right there on the right. We all know the outcome of 2007 but i think PM isnt done. Not with that kind of endorsement behind him.

Ironically, that P.C had a ferrari in the middle, a Mac on the right and a BMW on the left....spooky.

Ive seen that exact seating arrangement so many time in the past...

Edited April 7, 2008 by m3gtr

[m3gtr]

my expertly, painstakingly, ms-paint image composited Av

it is my surname too though

LoL!

[m3gtr]

"Asked if a podium finish would be possible this season, the double World Champion said: "That is impossible because we would need to gain a second and that just isn't there - that level of improvement doesn't exist."

What a bloody ingrate. Wasn't this primadonna saying only a few races ago that he brought over a second to the McLaren team in his skill alone?

Someone in the paddock is deluded.

Edited April 8, 2008 by m3gtr

[ctjet]

'six tenths' i think you mean

funny because its exactly what Mclaren are missing this year to be able to challange team jihad

[m3gtr]

Right, yes 6 1/10ths...

Gee, i wonder where it went?

Alonso:

Edited April 8, 2008 by m3gtr

[Beer Baron]

I thought you loved alonso? what happend big boy?

[m3gtr]

He was on fire when i met him and loving it. he was different then. Then as soon as Lewis arrived he started showing the world how immature he is and how good he is at chucking his toys out of the pram and getting absolutely slammed by a rookie.

Ive lost a lot of respect for the young guy and i dont rate him as highly as i did a couple of years back.