2008 F1 Season

[m3gtr]

watch closely and you notice the camera in Paul-Henri's hand goes off a split second before he goes down

would LOVE to see that shot

definitely +1

[wolverine]

wasn't that still pic shown at the end of the vid link?

[Paradizzle]

Guys! Seriously, Carhier was only stepping on the end of his umbrella for crying out loud. As if Raikonnen does that to a guy infront of the watching world for absentmindedly putting a foot on the corner of the "great ones" umbrella. Its the cameramans job to get in their faces. If Kimi doesnt like it, go play chess or somethhing.

What a bloody wanker.

Im beginning to dislike Raikkonen more and more.

Heres a better video - a much clearer one.

fark Raikonnens a wanker...

If someone was going to blind you by the flash on the camera basically being in your helmet before a start of a grand prix you should be able to KO him.

[m3gtr]

If someone was going to blind you by the flash on the camera basically being in your helmet before a start of a grand prix you should be able to KO him.

Yeah.

Well, arent we glad the FIA doesnt go by your rules then, eh?

[Roy]

I didnt always agree with Montoya, but he was an amazing talent and i miss him not being on the grid. Rather then the vid posted earlier, this is what i remember him for

http://youtube.com/watch?v=YOW-jngVoT4

And DC will be missed...

Now Kimi is no Mr Personality for journos but he comes up with some pearlers

[Marco-R34GTT]

I didnt always agree with Montoya, but he was an amazing talent and i miss him not being on the grid. Rather then the vid posted earlier, this is what i remember him for

http://youtube.com/watch?v=YOW-jngVoT4

Yeah ditto!

Late on the brakes (ie: Alesi 'late'), early on the 'gas', balls nearly as big as Schumacher's...

This video sums it up nicely..

[ctjet]

nearly as big?

didnt watch him in champcar too much did you lol

[lingeringsoul]

sigh.....i miss the racing of yesteryear.....

[ctjet]

and yes, the day he left the politics and went back to the US was a very sad day

guys like him who tell it like it really is are sorely missed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOW-jngVoT4

long live the monster... love you buddy

Edited July 13, 2008 by ctjet

[ctjet]

and lock it into your calendars people, Alonso is looking like a 2010 ferrari pilot for sure

too bad it wont be Massa he's replacing

[Duncan]

hahah isn't youtube funny. they must have a Mb or two of stuff stored on there. 2 different videos about a bloke taking a photo lol

[Marco-R34GTT]

nearly as big?

didnt watch him in champcar too much did you lol

I watching him a few times when he was racing with Chip Ganassi... I likewise just loved how he called a spade a spade, I'm no fan of him, but I loved the way he raced. So characteristic is watching him pilot an F1 car, coming out of slow or tight bends, then coming very early on the throttle (like he would've in a champcar to get the turbo spooling) then just stamping on it as soon as the car was remotely straight... I think McLaren killed him as an F1 driver.. Williams with either Webbo/Montoya or Rosberg/Montoya would've been a great combination with some reliable but powerful cosworth engines..

[Beer Baron]

I didnt always agree with Montoya, but he was an amazing talent and i miss him not being on the grid. Rather then the vid posted earlier, this is what i remember him for

http://youtube.com/watch?v=YOW-jngVoT4

And DC will be missed...

Now Kimi is no Mr Personality for journos but he comes up with some pearlers

bah, no you tube at work, but i'm going to assume that vid is kimi with his pele pearler. JA "kimi, what are you doing, you've missed pele's presentation", Kimi: "I was taking a shit". lol priceless.

[ctjet]

I watching him a few times when he was racing with Chip Ganassi... I likewise just loved how he called a spade a spade, I'm no fan of him, but I loved the way he raced. So characteristic is watching him pilot an F1 car, coming out of slow or tight bends, then coming very early on the throttle (like he would've in a champcar to get the turbo spooling) then just stamping on it as soon as the car was remotely straight... I think McLaren killed him as an F1 driver.. Williams with either Webbo/Montoya or Rosberg/Montoya would've been a great combination with some reliable but powerful cosworth engines..

lol the king of oversteer

but Mclaren didnt end him, Ron Dennis did... he has a history of doing that

[Marco-R34GTT]

Ron Dennis IS McLaren...

Really, if it wasn't for Uncle Ronny staying true to the team, McLaren, as an entity/team, would've been gobbled up by a major manufacturer long ago...

[ctjet]

I think most people are aware of that. What im saying is that Ron has a history of bad driver management, and that has cost the team dearly over the years. He seems to take liking to one driver, and to a point, its to hell with the other one.

Montoya’s mechanics LOVED him, much like Alonso’s love him, but for some reason Ron gets shirty about one of his pilots not fitting into the teams ethos or some other minor reason and directly or indirectly forces them out. Sometimes it feels like he puts his own beliefs before the good of his team.

It’s a sad state of affairs, because if the guy he forces out doesn’t have the opportunity to rejoin a top team, they leave the sport all together. Deep down nobody wants a guy like Montoya driving NASCAR when there were guys like Fisi and and Trulli circulating around in cars that they didn’t deserve.

[djr81]

Where is the bad driver management? Montoya was the problem, not Ron Dennis.

Dennis has been running McLaren since the early 80's. Apart from the Senna Prost thing (& I would defy anybody to keep those two happy) there hasn't been a great deal of driver unhappiness. Mostly it has been pretty good.

Yes you could claim Alonso - but that was because he is a twat not because of anything Dennis had done. Same for Mansell. Pretty much everything else was transitory belly aching.

[ctjet]

so, other than the inabilty to satisfy Senna, Prost, Montoya, Alonso and Mansell... you dont see some kind of reoccring theme here? most of which are multiple WDC winners mind you. Im not even getting into kimi

Some of the best guys to past through the sport and all of them not working out in a Mclaren seat? While a good portion of the time, the car they were provided was amoung the best in the field.

Look I admire and respect Ron more than anybody else in F1. He has more integrity in his little finger than a good portion of the paddock put together. That doesnt stop the man from being quite obviously rubbing guys the wrong way to the point whereby that they feel compelled to leave the team altogether.

Edited July 14, 2008 by ctjet

[Roy]

Where is the bad driver management? Montoya was the problem, not Ron Dennis.

Dennis has been running McLaren since the early 80's. Apart from the Senna Prost thing (& I would defy anybody to keep those two happy) there hasn't been a great deal of driver unhappiness. Mostly it has been pretty good.

Yes you could claim Alonso - but that was because he is a twat not because of anything Dennis had done. Same for Mansell. Pretty much everything else was transitory belly aching.

Come on Richard, in my days of watching F1, McLaren has only been a happy place when there has been a lap dog in one of their cars. ie DC and Berger who were both talented drivers, but didnt cause a fuss and were just happy to be in a competitve drive that let them win races, but never really the championship

Stefan Johansson and especially Rosberg were not hacks but didnt get near Prost. Neither of them lasted more then a season. The when Prost and Senna were together and both competitve animals there was problems.

Senna and Berger were happier times, but again even when Senna winning the championships Berger was down in 4th or 5th in the WDC. Then you had Andretti, he wasnt happy. Then you had Mansell and Brundle who both stuffed around for less then a season.

It wasnt until you got the subservient DC alongside Mika that there was any routine to the McLaren operation, and people agree that most other drivers would have torched the joint if Dennis handed them the same hand he did DC. When DC left we are back to the pre DC era of drivers only lasting a season at best.

The team is obviously not a happy place for most drivers, and even when their favoured driver is winning WDC there other driver is back 3 or 4 places. Look at Ferrari and Williams when they have dominated the championships. Often the number 2 driver comes in 2nd or 3rd in the WDC

[djr81]

Well I take the view point that the normal (If F1 could ever be referred to as that) position is to have one gun driver & a hack. It makes for happy teams. McLaren is one of the few teams to go against this trend.

Ferrari in recent history haven't (Thinking back the last time they did was Prost/Mansell - Mansell left in a huff then Prost got sacked a couple of years later)

Renault haven't. (although in their earlier iteration they got close)

Williams haven't.

Lotus didn't.

Brabham didn't. (In the Ecclestone era anyway)

So over the time Ron Dennis has run McLaren he has had drivers such as De Cesaris, Watson, Lauda, Prost, Rosberg, Johansson, Senna, Andretti, Berger, Hakkinen, Mansell, Blundell, Coulthard, Montoya, Raikkanen, Alonso, Hamilton & Kovi.

Of those partnerships I would say that six pairings have had two top line drivers:

Lauda/Prost

Rosberg/Prost

Senna/Prost

Hakkinen/Senna

Hakkinen/Coulthard (just to show I care, Roy)

Hakkinen/Montoya

Alonso/Hamilton

Over the equivalent time I struggle to think of 6 top line pairings in the remainder of the field that could genuinely be said to be competitive.

Maybe Mansell/Prost at Ferrari in 1991 or thereabouts. Ended badly.

Arnoux/Prost at Renault in the early eighties. Ended badly.

Mansell/Piquet at Williams in the mid eighties. Ended badly.

Hill/Villeneuve at Williams in the early/mid nineties. Ended badly with Hill leaving for Arrows.

Villeneuve/Pironi at Ferrari in 1981. Ended in disaster.

Which gets me to my main point. Given the pairing of two gun drivers you expect problems. So I would contend that you need to lower expectations about how much love is in a team when there are two good drivers. I mean it goes back further than BRM with Graham Hill not getting on with Jackie Stewart....

By the way the Hungarian dear lovers society will be in touch to discuss your opinion of Stefan Johansson.

Lastly, yes you are right Mark Blundell (Got the wrong MB) deserved better treatment, mostly because he was/is a nice bloke. Not that that ever counted in F1.

Edited July 15, 2008 by djr81