2008 F1 Season

[Mika]

7.LH GIVES THE POSITION BACK IMMEDIATELY and is trailing KR into turn one.

Yep...trailing into turn 1? You have to look at all the other laps, how many cars ever got that close to another out of the corner onto the pit...he was there because he cut the corner

8.LH has telemitary to back the speed difference up.

I dont debate this, he had to back off to let Kimi past. But he was still graced with a favourable track position even after having backed off. He woud not have been up his clacker if he had taken the normal line coming onto the straight.

Funny that Lewis was able to make up 2 seconds in the space of a few corners once the rain came down. He was right on Kimi's gearbox on the approach to bus stop.

9.The gap going into the busstop and coming across the start finish line is exactly the same.

Come on Adam, it doesnt work like that. Please go back and look at all the other laps where cars were bumper to bumper into the Bus Stop then tell me how close they were before the start finish line. They certainly werent side by side like they may have been into the Bus Stop, and a car diving up the outside at the Bus Stop, off line and out of position has evern right to lose a few car lenghts as a result. Not be favoured with a better situation

If you aren't blind you would have noticed Kimi could not get traction down pit straight. Is that Lewis' fault now? Was LH meant to slow down more and wait for Kimi to get his shit together? Puhlease.

[Marco-R34GTT]

100% money.

100% bullshit

Edited September 8, 2008 by Marco-R34GTT

[Roy]

Adam.... F1 has long been about politics and drama. That is really most of the appeal. Its not just about the racing. If it were we would all be watching Formula Vee.

I can see the decisions as being dodgy, but i cant see how this calls for storming of the tower. In my eyes, Lewis had the race in his hands. He put himself again in this silly position where the rules are questioned and debated. Its a tough call, and one that i dont completely agree with, but i can easily see how its come about and really in recent history i say its probably consistant. He gained an advantage. Now how the FIA were supposed to handle the situation...well it would have been kind of mute if Hamo hadnt tested the rule in the first place.

Everyone sayign how Kimi ran wide as well a few corners before binning it....you forget that Lewis was out there as well and Kimi went around him so was even more off track as a result. Its not like Kimi took to the run off and gained an advantage...

Anyway...next few races will be interesting. Come on Nick, will see f he can get another podium. I want to put Webber back in the seat alongside him and see how they fair in 2009

[Beer Baron]

yep at the end of the day there is one man who had the power to avoid all this nonsense it's lewis. he was catching kimi no question. and with the rain starting the chances of a mistake, or at least a drop in kimi's relative pace was looking pretty certain. so all he had to do was sit back and wait for the RIGHT place to make a move. instead he chose to try one from a long way back at a spot that is nigh on impossible to pass UNLESS the other party let's it happen (and no way is anybody going to LET you past for the race lead). he could have avioided all this crap by not cutting the chicane.

troy, we both know webber would cane that little gyppo bastard they call heidfeld.

[Roy]

Funny that Lewis was able to make up 2 seconds in the space of a few corners once the rain came down. He was right on Kimi's gearbox on the approach to bus stop.

If you aren't blind you would have noticed Kimi could not get traction down pit straight. Is that Lewis' fault now? Was LH meant to slow down more and wait for Kimi to get his shit together? Puhlease.

No, i am not blind. Lewis was in the best seat in the house. Damp, changable conditions means you would always rather be following the other car and let them find the limits. Its no surprise he was able to clsoe in quickly, Kimi slowed as he had no idea of grip levels. Lewis could see that the Ferrari looked ok in the grip department and drove accordingly. It was great driving by Lewis.

And re the traction down the straight, well Kimi was comign out of a tighter bend from a slower speed, Lewis was straight lining a corner so i question your point, do you think the power down out of the corner would have differed dramatically if they were following each other through the corner? Under brakes Kimi would have either out broken himself guessing the grip levels or Lewis would have sailed under him seeing that Kimi was brakign too early and grip levels still ok. Its the changable considtions that Lewis was clever in expoliting. If it was bucketing down rain then it woudl have bene interesting to see if the grip levels were known whether the McLaren/Lewis would have hammered the Ferrari/Kimi so convincingly

[m3gtr]

Adam.... F1 has long been about politics and drama. That is really most of the appeal. Its not just about the racing. If it were we would all be watching Formula Vee.

I can see the decisions as being dodgy, but i cant see how this calls for storming of the tower. In my eyes, Lewis had the race in his hands. He put himself again in this silly position where the rules are questioned and debated. Its a tough call, and one that i dont completely agree with, but i can easily see how its come about and really in recent history i say its probably consistant. He gained an advantage. Now how the FIA were supposed to handle the situation...well it would have been kind of mute if Hamo hadnt tested the rule in the first place.

Everyone sayign how Kimi ran wide as well a few corners before binning it....you forget that Lewis was out there as well and Kimi went around him so was even more off track as a result. Its not like Kimi took to the run off and gained an advantage...

Anyway...next few races will be interesting. Come on Nick, will see f he can get another podium. I want to put Webber back in the seat alongside him and see how they fair in 2009

How on earth you think drivers are consciously aware of "testing the rules" is beyond me.

You could clearly see they were just both going at it hammer and tong!!!

Thats what its all about and i dont think KR gave a shit - he lost to LH that day and LH just drove better. Even the ice man would admit it.

No driver wants to win like that but who on the face of the earth would want to lose like LH has??

The best race of the year f**king destroyed by what is AT BEST a subjective and lineball call.

Ill say it again

"The Punishment DID NOT fit the crime."

Look at it again Roy. Watch the tape and watch it frame by frame.

[m3gtr]

yep at the end of the day there is one man who had the power to avoid all this nonsense it's lewis. he was catching kimi no question. and with the rain starting the chances of a mistake, or at least a drop in kimi's relative pace was looking pretty certain. so all he had to do was sit back and wait for the RIGHT place to make a move. instead he chose to try one from a long way back at a spot that is nigh on impossible to pass UNLESS the other party let's it happen (and no way is anybody going to LET you past for the race lead). he could have avioided all this crap by not cutting the chicane.

troy, we both know webber would cane that little gyppo bastard they call heidfeld.

W

T

F

?

So all the blame for this f**ked up mess, you put squarely on LH's shoulders???

Faaaark. Youre right - youre hatred for him IS clouding your better senses...

[m3gtr]

lol, no sooner had i made the argument, Planet F1 releases this.

Click

http://planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3213_4116127,00.html

[dezz]

*Inhales...

Bad luck Kimi but well done Massa with the win. Hamilton needs to learn to drive round the chicanes rather than through them

ZING!

It's a tough one, cause the stewards will argue that had he taken the bus stop without cutting, he wouldn't have been as close to Kimi as he was.

From what I've read, I think the issue is that even though he gave back the spot, he was still closer to Kimi than if he had gone through the corner behind him.

End of story. Perhaps Adam needs to read the rule. He didn't get penalised for taking a place, he was penalised for gaining an advantage.

The Mclaren was a faster car by a good portion of a second, the fact that he caught kimi again by the hairpin is moot. He would have caught him again anyway.

I hope you're not talking about the majority of the race...Kimi clearly had Hamilton well and truly covered. Even on the prime tire in the last stint when Hamilton closed the gap, KR was maintaining a lead of 1.5-2seconds until the rain came.

Big difference between taking you line and unnecessarily running somebody off the road. Kimi already had the corner, left no racing room for lewis to continue in so he took avoidable action and chose not to bump a ferrari because we all know the penalty for daring to do that. Here he is doing the right thing and still getting stung.

So pretty boy Lewis doesn't like it when another driver dares shut him down like he so often does to everyone else?

wah wah wah...

"cut him off" lol! Its called "taking your line". Its proper forecful racing - particularly when you're safe in the knowledge the guy behind you needs points and can't afford to crash out with his championship contender right behind him in the points. Lewis barely got a wheel in there - it wasn't his corner. and running people wide on exit is par for the course - you're inside its your line to take.

catching and passing are two very different things mate

So glad to see some more sense being posted in here finally! How many times have we seen Lewis push anyone that has the audactiy to pass him, off the track. It's his god given right after all...No one passes him on the outside, just ask Lewis!

I suppose you think it was good judgment that Raikonnen didnt slow down when he saw the yellow flags of Rosbergs spin and instead sped up nearly taking out all 3 of them in one hit?

Feels like I'm repeating myself once again, but you're a fool if you think Lewis slowed for Rosberg. Watch the press conference. He was, by his own admission, already on his way off the track when he had to avoid Rosberg. Clearly he had not slowed down or he wouldn't have been heading off the track.

haha, I still can't believe lousie got his win taken off him. there truly is a god! hehe.

God I love the Baron!

[dezz]

In my eyes as well as millions of others, LH was the winner of the Belgian 2008 GP.

Too bad your eyes don't have a bearing on the Drivers title ay...

Lewis DID NOT gain an advantage.

ffs! How the hell is going over painted white lines and dirty rubber marbles an advantage as opposed to being on the drying racing line?????

He was the same distance behind KR after the start finish line as he was when they went into the bustop!!!!

Where the f**k is the penalty here and the justification to strip a WDC leader of 10 points, award his main rival 2 extra and reduce what would have been an 8 point advantage into 2 point advantage???

You tell me for the sake of argument.

Yes, he did gain an advantage.

As for how going over 'painted white lines and dirty rubber marbles' is an advantage, you've got to be kidding me, maybe just yourself. You're comparing a straight line to a tight chicane...

You say he was the same distance after the finish line as he was when they got to the chicane...There's you're advantage right there. If he took the corner he WOULD NOT have been where he was. End of story.

As for how you justify the penalty in relation to the points outcome, you don't. The stewards make a ruling on the incident alone. Points and titles aren't taken into account, and nor should they be.

Yeah man, Kimi passed the "homo" by CUTTING A CORNER!

Spose you didnt see that either?

Geez. Where is the argument? They stripped a win from a driver when the guy in second crashed.

Who really gives a shit?

KR lost it into the wall and Hammo kept it going!

Last time I checked Kimi didn't benefit from LH's penalty..

We all agree it was a bullshit call and we all know how this looks to us fans - that cant be ignored...

Im still studying that tape and cmon Roy, it was so marginal and subjective there is no way the penalty was appropriate.

Sure, LH may have, marginally at best, made an indiscretion.

In this case im sure you agree, the punishment definitely did NOT fit the crime.

No we do not all agree. You and maybe 1 or 2 others have an opinion, the majority disagrees with you.

And in the same argument you've said that what LH did was perfectly fine, but now its marginal... If you're going to beat your head against a wall at least be clear about why you're doing it.

I will also add, the FIA are doing the right thing in not considering how the race results will be affected by the ruling. It doesnt, nor shoudl it matter if the penalty takes the win from Lewis. Its a tragedy for Lewis, but the offence has to have the usual penalty applied irrespective of the outcome. Cant say its too big a shame as he won the race. There was an infringement, they applied the usual penalty, a stop go or in this case the time penalty for a stop go. The fact that it robs him of th ewin should not come into it

Spot on Bris, well said.

[dezz]

*Exhales

[ctjet]

lol

[Roy]

Adam, i would have thought that it would not be too hard for drivers to not bend the rules when they are out there. I mean, they have a pit full of people who can get messages to the driver through the radio. They know what flags mean out of the corner of their eyes. They know the rules...its up to the team on the radio to talk to the drivers, tell them to settle down when required, concentrate when required, have a go when required.

MS had the presense of mind to park it at Monaco a few years ago...i think drivers know exactly what they are doing when they are out there.

And yes the punishment does fit the crime. A stop go penalty for gaining an advantage by cutting a chicane. You have to look at the crime and penalty in isolation from the end race result. If this happened to two cars racing for 13th and 14th it would not even be dicussed, well not with this level of emotion. Its a massive kick in the jocks because it means Lewis loses two positions.

Either make the call or not make the call. FIA cant say well we were going to penalise him, but it would have meant he would have come 3rd. They deemed he gained an advantage and bingo. So stick to arguing that he shoudl not have been penalisedm, because if you start talking the severity of it then you admit that there was an infringement, and he got the penalty typically administered

[dezz]

Glock also received a 25 second penalty...What a travesty

[Mika]

And re the traction down the straight, well Kimi was comign out of a tighter bend from a slower speed

In case you didn't notice, Lewis yielded...Kimi was able to accelerate past him. Kimi was 6kph faster than Lewis over the finish line. Clearly he had better acceleration down the straight

Kimi gained a heap of time running on the more coarse run off surface on blanchimont...it was quite visible even with the naked eye. Did he have better acceleration than lewis once he re-entered the track? Yes. Did he yield to make the distance the same as it was prior to his "excursion"? No. Did he get penalised? No. Kimi even took the lead 3 times after the incident so he was never disadvantaged by it, nor did Lewis gain from it. This kind of incident happens at every track with chicanes and even more so in the wet, yet it seems the severity of the penalty depends on which car you happen to be driving. Recently, I recall a similar thing happening where it was deemed by the stewards that the cut course did not affect the result of the race and therefore the driver would not be penalised.

[ctjet]

a penalty should only be applied if an advatage was gained through a deliberate or intentional off track excusion

i dont think what happened fits that description at all

[Mika]

Glock also received a 25 second penalty...What a travesty

For toyota and Timo it is...he was up to add another point to his tally! Not something Toyota would be impressed with

[Roy]

In case you didn't notice, Lewis yielded...Kimi was able to accelerate past him. Kimi was 6kph faster than Lewis over the finish line. Clearly he had better acceleration down the straight

Kimi gained a heap of time running on the more coarse run off surface on blanchimont...it was quite visible even with the naked eye. Did he have better acceleration than lewis once he re-entered the track? Yes. Did he yield to make the distance the same as it was prior to his "excursion"? No. Did he get penalised? No. Kimi even took the lead 3 times after the incident so he was never disadvantaged by it, nor did Lewis gain from it. This kind of incident happens at every track with chicanes and even more so in the wet, yet it seems the severity of the penalty depends on which car you happen to be driving. Recently, I recall a similar thing happening where it was deemed by the stewards that the cut course did not affect the result of the race and therefore the driver would not be penalised.

If, did, what. Kimi crashed out. The pass under yellows when Rosberg had spun would have been an interesting one. I suspect for a second there it was avoid at all cost, then crime of opportunity. I hear what you are saying and agree to an extent. But Lewis' track position alongside Kimi is what is beign questioned.

The hard thing to get around though is, did he have to yield. Yes. This means he gained an unfair advantage by cutting the chicane. So that is a given, the area that is grey is whether he yielded sufficiently so that an advantage was carried to the next corner. I can perfectly understand how the FIA ruled this to be the case.

I repeat, its line ball but i dont think Lewis had to play it that close to the line. He was unlucky to get pinned by it...but its not a completely left of field penalty by the FIA.

I wonder if this had happened on the 3rd lap of the race would the situation be viewed any differently?!?!

Go Massa... i am rotting for ya, only because outside of your parents and MS nobody cares for you

[bnr#@]

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2008/9/8335.html

Lewis'es own words : "I understood I had to let him past, so I did. I got in his tow and he was ducking and diving left and right and I did the same and managed to get back to the inside of him"

He sure as hell wouldn't have gotten in anyones tow if he didn't straight line the chicane....

[dezz]

I love the article featuring Daddy Hamilton

I love how he refers to everything Louise does as 'we'...we won the race, we want the title...

go drive a Porsche into a fence you flog