2008 F1 Season

[m3gtr]

No. If LH had stayed behind KR instead of cutting and running, he would have had the usual concertina effect to deal with coming out of that slow turn - where the time gap stays the same, but as speed increases the distance gap increases. The cut and run put him way closer to the ferrari up the straight than he would otherwise have been, and that advantage in proximity enabled, or certainly assisted, him to make the pass immediately afterwards at the end of the straight.

Have you taken into account KR was on the brakes 50 metres earlier into the corner? LH on both the chicane and turn 1, was able to make up HUGE ground on the anchors.

You can actually see the exact marker he used as LH brakes into the Bus Stop and then before La source in the video. Im dead sure it was the 150metre mark which is pretty damned scary coming down from top gear and on a damp surface. KR was on the brakes, coasting into the chicane way earlier.

That much is so easy to see in the vid and its wicked to see it so vividly from their perspective.

[m3gtr]

For me the overtake was about what Hamilton did under brakes not what happened on the straight, ie about the grip available to the car not its terminal speed. In any case the terminal speed of the McLaren would have been down on that of the Ferrari.

Farkin A man, me too.

Kimi took a couple of different lines on the approach to the corner which may well have raised a few eyebrows in diferent circumstances.

How many times can you move over to defend your line? Once wasnt it? KR was all over the shop, lol

The more important point was it was good racing. The kind of thing that should be encouraged. I don't really need to see more boring, processional F1 races, nor the FIA interfering with the championship again. Nor I suspect does anyone else.

Amen to that.

For me the subjectivity of this argument is massively eclipsed by the fact we were all pissing in our pants in anticipation of one of the craziest finishes we have witness in years.

Here is hoping Kimi can get it together & put up a good fight to repeat his championship.

Ah, he will...the old dog.

[ctjet]

this is now upto a mathiatical 15 points the FIA has taken from mclaren

feel the love

[ctjet]

money is on Mclaren just accepting this penalty for the good of the sport again, and moving on

[m3gtr]

money is on Mclaren just accepting this penalty for the good of the sport again, and moving on

Yeah man i got that feeling too from what i just read.

They are good at turning the other cheek youve got to say...

Better to take it on the chin and move on than kick up a stink and drag it on further when it all may end up fruitless and achieving nothing more than an increase of instability within the team...

[ctjet]

act like the red team?

wtf is happening with Nigel Stephany anyway

[Roy]

How do you figure 15 points?

[si]

No. If LH had stayed behind KR instead of cutting and running, he would have had the usual concertina effect to deal with coming out of that slow turn - where the time gap stays the same, but as speed increases the distance gap increases. The cut and run put him way closer to the ferrari up the straight than he would otherwise have been, and that advantage in proximity enabled, or certainly assisted, him to make the pass immediately afterwards at the end of the straight.

It's pretty obvious to the majority really. It seems only the louise fanboys can't see it. Try telling me lewis would have been right next to kimi at the start line if he had not of cut the chicane - He gained advantage, doesn't matter if he gave the place back, he would not have been there if he had not cut it. Theres is your advantage.

Here's to hoping webber doesn't get taken out again next race!

[m3gtr]

It's pretty obvious to the majority really. It seems only the louise fanboys can't see it. Try telling me lewis would have been right next to kimi at the start line if he had not of cut the chicane - He gained advantage, doesn't matter if he gave the place back, he would not have been there if he had not cut it. Theres is your advantage.

Here's to hoping webber doesn't get taken out again next race!

You know what, i have no doubt in my mind whatsoever that LH would have taken KR at La Source under brakes easily if what you say had transpired.

Unfortunately all of us were robbed of a fair result that day.

[sh@un]

So what's the final ruling re: Hamo and McLaren after all this?

God I pray that both Ferraris blow-up spectacularly at Monza; That would make my year.

[ctjet]

with the associated grid demotions in malaysia, france and numerous drive through penalities and now this, 15 is a conservative estimated total of points lost to dubious calls or overly harsh penalties

[sh@un]

You know what, i have no doubt in my mind whatsoever that LH would have taken KR at La Source under brakes easily if what you say had transpired.

Unfortunately all of us were robbed of a fair result that day.

how come no one seems to care about the fact that Kimi n00bed the car in to the wall good and proper all on his own a few corners later?

all this talk of where Hamilton was/would have been is, to me, irrelevant- coz Kimi no doubt would have still crashed trying to feel for grip as he did, and handed the lead to Lewis anyway.

[dezz]

You know what, i have no doubt in my mind whatsoever that LH would have taken KR at La Source under brakes easily if what you say had transpired.

Unfortunately all of us were robbed of a fair result that day.

Maybe he would have, but due to the fact that Lewis was too impatient, and gained an advantage by cutting the chicane, we'll never know

[dezz]

how come no one seems to care about the fact that Kimi n00bed the car in to the wall good and proper all on his own a few corners later?

all this talk of where Hamilton was/would have been is, to me, irrelevant- coz Kimi no doubt would have still crashed trying to feel for grip as he did, and handed the lead to Lewis anyway.

So what? What does that have to do with giving LH the penalty?

Nothing.

Perhaps if LH was more level headed and patient/sensible, he would have waited for what you seem to think was the inevitable, and coasted passed a stranded Ferrari.

[sh@un]

with the associated grid demotions in malaysia, france and numerous drive through penalities and now this, 15 is a conservative estimated total of points lost to dubious calls or overly harsh penalties

which would put them in the lead by 3 points >:|

[m3gtr]

So what's the final ruling re: Hamo and McLaren after all this?

God I pray that both Ferraris blow-up spectacularly at Monza; That would make my year.

That kinda did happen///although one after the other...

First Massa then Raikkonnen...or...was it the other way around.

LOL @ Ferrari press release " This engine failure will not happen again."

One race later - KABOOM!

[sh@un]

Perhaps if LH was more level headed and patient/sensible...

or one could argue that the fact he was giving Kimi some major curry rattled him, and caused him to make the ensuing unforced error =P

but anywho, i offer a truce! in the spirit of fairness (still with us FIA?... FIA??... oh nvm) i suggest Massa is given a retrograde 25 second penalty for the pit-lane incident in the European GP, and the championship points standing adjusted accordingly...y'know, to be consistent and all.

[m3gtr]

how come no one seems to care about the fact that Kimi n00bed the car in to the wall good and proper all on his own a few corners later?

all this talk of where Hamilton was/would have been is, to me, irrelevant- coz Kimi no doubt would have still crashed trying to feel for grip as he did, and handed the lead to Lewis anyway.

Of course i cared, its just that in reality and in the light this pile of bullshit surfaced under, KR crashed after LH "ripped of the racing world", commiting the most diabolical of racing sins - the chicane cut.

Banned for life, burn him at the stake...blah blah blergh,,...pfft...meh...

Over it.

Cmon Monza.

[m3gtr]

or one could argue that the fact he was giving Kimi some major curry rattled him, and caused him to make the ensuing unforced error =P

but anywho, i offer a truce! in the spirit of fairness (still with us FIA?... FIA??... oh nvm) i suggest Massa is given a retrograde 25 second penalty for the pit-lane incident in the European GP, and the championship points standing adjusted accordingly...y'know, to be consistent and all.

lol, that would be veeery naice.

I laike.

Sif thats EVA going to happen.

NEVA EVA.

[dezz]

or one could argue that the fact he was giving Kimi some major curry rattled him, and caused him to make the ensuing unforced error =P

but anywho, i offer a truce! in the spirit of fairness (still with us FIA?... FIA??... oh nvm) i suggest Massa is given a retrograde 25 second penalty for the pit-lane incident in the European GP, and the championship points standing adjusted accordingly...y'know, to be consistent and all.

You can make whatever argument you want.

Hamilton still gained an advantage and was penalised as a result