2008 F1 Season

[Marco-R34GTT]

Any toys left in the pram Adam???

[Kaido_RR]

Youve got to be kidding>?

Like every man and his dog cant see that as plain as day, lol.

Get real man...

lol...

i ask for simple proof not your opinion or the opinion of million other people,

[m3gtr]

hmm, didn't Kimmi pass Homo again after that incident??? not bad for a sitting duck.

Yeah man, Kimi passed the "homo" by CUTTING A CORNER!

Spose you didnt see that either?

Geez. Where is the argument? They stripped a win from a driver when the guy in second crashed.

Who really gives a shit?

KR lost it into the wall and Hammo kept it going!

[m3gtr]

lol...

i ask for simple proof not your opinion or the opinion of million other people,

Dont be a knob. You know that they will never disclose it.

Its like knowing the US was after oil all along and there were no weapons of mass destruction!

Gee, wow,....that was a hard one to figure out and look at all the shit it put us in.

You need proof of that, too?

[ctjet]

you see that done all the time in F1. take your blinkers off. And in a situation where the driver in front has nothing to loose and the one attempting the pass needs the points, he ain't going to make it easy!

No, you don’t have to make it easy, but you also don’t have to continue to run a guy off the road when you clearly have the position in the second stage of the corner. Kimi clearly went much further than was necessary

hmm, didn't Kimmi pass Homo again after that incident??? not bad for a sitting duck.

you mean under yellows when Niko went for a bushwalk? Or when he completely ignored the track and took his own line around blanchimont?

Yeah... totally

Edited September 8, 2008 by ctjet

[m3gtr]

Adam, i lvoe how passionate you are about Louise, but perhaps its you that needs to sit back and be a little more unbiased in your assessment of the situation.

I am not going to argue with you, the fact that Lewis punted it up the outside, good luck to him. But when he has to surrender track position as he has put himself in an awkward spot, he cant then mark the road, say how close he was to Kimi, then claim that proximity.

FFS, look at how 1/3 of the way down the pit straight he is side to side, there is no way out of a slow corner like that he woudl have even, ever, ever been in that position. I mean do you really think that if Lewis had followed Kimi through the corner he would have gotten the drive out of the corner to pull up alongside him??

Anway, the penalty is harsh, but he did the crime. Perhaps 5 or 10 positions was warranted for next race qualifying pos. But the offence means a stop go so in fairness the application of the 25sec penalty is at least consistant. Teh fiscal fiens are usually when there was no contact, palces/results affected, just a breach of a rule.

I would be feeling the same way if it happened to any of the drivers..unfortunately its a Mac and LH in it again.

We all agree it was a bullshit call and we all know how this looks to us fans - that cant be ignored...

Im still studying that tape and cmon Roy, it was so marginal and subjective there is no way the penalty was appropriate.

Sure, LH may have, marginally at best, made an indiscretion.

In this case im sure you agree, the punishment definitely did NOT fit the crime.

[m3gtr]

Any toys left in the pram Adam???

Nah, only a few throwing knives...

[Roy]

LOL, i have work to do so, my last comment

Bloody hell some of you are blind. So...

1.LH was outside into the busstop. AHEAD on the outside.

Whats the point of beign ahead when you are not clearly enough ahead to execute the pass. it just leaves you in piss poor track position

2.KR brakes deeper and get a little squirrely.

Yep...

3.LH sticks to the outside line which is perfectly fine.

Yep...

4.KR tries to muscle LH over. Succeeds in being dirty.

Dirty...he should not have been there, you go around the outside then you have to expect the guy on the inside to use the usual line, and if he is in trouble under brakes himself to push you wide.

5.LH takes evasive action because there is NO other choice.

Well he put the car in that position, so...he did have achoice. How many passing moves around the outside there have come off? Its was a good move to pressure Kimi, but was never going to be a passing move

6.LH cut the chicane.

Yep...

7.LH GIVES THE POSITION BACK IMMEDIATELY and is trailing KR into turn one.

Yep...trailing into turn 1? You have to look at all the other laps, how many cars ever got that close to another out of the corner onto the pit...he was there because he cut the corner

8.LH has telemitary to back the speed difference up.

I dont debate this, he had to back off to let Kimi past. But he was still graced with a favourable track position even after having backed off. He woud not have been up his clacker if he had taken the normal line coming onto the straight.

9.The gap going into the busstop and coming across the start finish line is exactly the same.

Come on Adam, it doesnt work like that. Please go back and look at all the other laps where cars were bumper to bumper into the Bus Stop then tell me how close they were before the start finish line. They certainly werent side by side like they may have been into the Bus Stop, and a car diving up the outside at the Bus Stop, off line and out of position has evern right to lose a few car lenghts as a result. Not be favoured with a better situation

10.LH outbrakes a frantic KR into turn 1.

Yep, the track was slippery accross the whole corner and Kimi was perhaps braking a little too much given there seemed to have been more traction then expected

11.GAME OVA.

Yep.... a hard fought 3rd

[m3gtr]

And Roy, i completely and 100% agree with the penalty in France.

I do not and never will with this one.

LH clearly made a strong effort to relinquish his advantage and passed him right at the end of the straight.

KR was almost out of control and you could see he didnt know what to do with himself...probably fumbling with the Vodka tumbler

[Roy]

And Roy, i completely and 100% agree with the penalty in France.

I do not and never will with this one.

LH clearly made a strong effort to relinquish his advantage and passed him right at the end of the straight.

KR was almost out of control and you could see he didnt know what to do with himself...probably fumbling with the Vodka tumbler

Effort? I know what you are saying. I try to please women, doesnt make it so

[m3gtr]

LOL, i have work to do so, my last comment

Bloody hell some of you are blind. So...

1.LH was outside into the busstop. AHEAD on the outside.

Whats the point of beign ahead when you are not clearly enough ahead to execute the pass. it just leaves you in piss poor track position

LH was actually on the inside for the left coming out of the chicane! KR shoved him off plain and simple.

So who actually had track position really?

2.KR brakes deeper and get a little squirrely.

Yep...

3.LH sticks to the outside line which is perfectly fine.

Yep...

4.KR tries to muscle LH over. Succeeds in being dirty.

Dirty...he should not have been there, you go around the outside then you have to expect the guy on the inside to use the usual line, and if he is in trouble under brakes himself to push you wide.

Shouldnt have been there? You're joking right? Maybe LH should have just stayed there and then we would have a discussion about how KR rammed LH and took them both out for Ferrari and Massas championship>

Either way we all lose.

5.LH takes evasive action because there is NO other choice.

Well he put the car in that position, so...he did have achoice. How many passing moves around the outside there have come off? Its was a good move to pressure Kimi, but was never going to be a passing move

He sure did. He chose to pass him. KR could have left him room, chose not to - It doesnt matter how many moves have stuck through there. It was possible and LH has a habit of doing some pretty crazy things and making them work.

6.LH cut the chicane.

Yep...

7.LH GIVES THE POSITION BACK IMMEDIATELY and is trailing KR into turn one.

Yep...trailing into turn 1? You have to look at all the other laps, how many cars ever got that close to another out of the corner onto the pit...he was there because he cut the corner

8.LH has telemitary to back the speed difference up.

I dont debate this, he had to back off to let Kimi past. But he was still graced with a favourable track position even after having backed off. He woud not have been up his clacker if he had taken the normal line coming onto the straight.

9.The gap going into the busstop and coming across the start finish line is exactly the same.

Come on Adam, it doesnt work like that. Please go back and look at all the other laps where cars were bumper to bumper into the Bus Stop then tell me how close they were before the start finish line. They certainly werent side by side like they may have been into the Bus Stop, and a car diving up the outside at the Bus Stop, off line and out of position has evern right to lose a few car lenghts as a result. Not be favoured with a better situation

I still dont see how coming off greasy marbled and painted white lines is an advantage in your eyes?

10.LH outbrakes a frantic KR into turn 1.

Yep, the track was slippery accross the whole corner and Kimi was perhaps braking a little too much given there seemed to have been more traction then expected

Is it LH's fault he was better in the conditions?>

Fact remains, KR was not investigated - who gives a shit, he crashed. Massa wasnt fast enough, so he essentially lucked into a win..and The Pikey? Well, smart'n'sneaky as always.

11.GAME OVA.

Yep.... a hard fought 1st

( fixed it for ya...)

[bnr#@]

Effort? I know what you are saying. I try to please women, doesnt make it so

LOL

[m3gtr]

LOL

Got anything more constructive to add other than "lol"?

[Roy]

Adam, it seems we view race craft very differently. The move, like many of Lewis's passes was a long shot. No driver with the exception of Fisi would let a move like that pay off with a few laps to go. Good luck to him for trying...but without being clearly ahead of Kimi at turn in it was never going to happen. I again sit back and think he had the GP in the bag, he just had to be patient, something that continues to be his weak point.

LOL, i will tell you what i was thinking last night after the GP. "Lewis Hamilton isnt a thinker, he is a racer". Even Ricky Bobby wouldnt have tried that move

[Beer Baron]

I dont debate this, he had to back off to let Kimi past. But he was still graced with a favourable track position even after having backed off. He woud not have been up his clacker if he had taken the normal line coming onto the straight.

exactly the point and exactly why he was given a penalty. HE GAINED AN ADVANTAGE BY CUTTING THE CHICANE. he gained a fair whack of track position which enabled him to make a pass at the next corner. everyone else can see it. the stewards can see it. it's only adam who can't or won't. he has done this before. any corner where there is run off instead of wall he will try this half baked, bold moves knowing that if the other driver doesn't roll over and play dead the way he wants them to he can always back out of it and drive nicely through the run-off area without losing any time.

[NISMO]

FFS, look at how 1/3 of the way down the pit straight he is side to side, there is no way out of a slow corner like that he woudl have even, ever, ever been in that position. I mean do you really think that if Lewis had followed Kimi through the corner he would have gotten the drive out of the corner to pull up alongside him??

And that my friends is game, set and match!

He wouldn't have been that close behind Kimi in the dry let alone in the rain on slicks.

[ctjet]

The word ‘intentional’ and ‘deliberate’ are two words that seemed to be ignored

Its not like this off track excursion was planned. He tried a move, it didn’t work, gave the spot back and took it again. Do we now need to allocate a specific time you have to remain behind before you’re allowed to repass somebody? More rules?

Fcuks sake, it was by far and away the most exciting thing we’ve seen all year, and then penalising the guy because he didn’t complete it inch perfect. No wonder nobody has the nuts to overtake anymore, you’ll just fkn get pinged for it so you might as well circulate where you are and take the points you have.

This is ludicrous. Kimi ended up in the way anyway when his talent ran out. Nobody was robbed and nobody seemed to have a problem with it at the time. Now there a million arm chair professionals sitting at home with the heater on and their internet connection ready to rock criticising a move that was done in a matter of seconds in the wet, on the wrong tyres, for the lead of a race.

Lewis clearly was going to get him eventually and tried to the best of his ability. He could have launched down the inside at the same spot clipped kimi, taken either of them and then critised for that too.

[bnr#@]

Was merely lol'ing at the statement of women pleasing. cant add much that hasn't already been said here. It sux that the race was decided like this but thats life, he did gain an advantage, hes not the only one in history to cop an effective 25sec penalty for doing this, it was just to late in the race to do much else.

[m3gtr]

exactly the point and exactly why he was given a penalty. HE GAINED AN ADVANTAGE BY CUTTING THE CHICANE. he gained a fair whack of track position which enabled him to make a pass at the next corner. everyone else can see it. the stewards can see it. it's only adam who can't or won't. he has done this before. any corner where there is run off instead of wall he will try this half baked, bold moves knowing that if the other driver doesn't roll over and play dead the way he wants them to he can always back out of it and drive nicely through the run-off area without losing any time.

Come off it Richard. You cant seriously think im the only one who thinks Hamilton got the shaft?

You can view it any way you want.

Bottom line for me is this.

1. He did not deserve to have the win stripped from him. It was ungraceful, undignifying and an insult to the sport.

2. For the sake of the bullshit consistency that the FIA employs when meting out punishment, they should have given LH a fine at the maximum. The punishment DID NOT fit the crime - or did you just choose to ignore that Richo?

Do NOT forget, DC in 6 races smashing other people at will and not a SINGLE penalty. Dont forget KR flying out of the tunnel all kinds of shit crossed up and taking out a hapless and rightfully indignant AS.

That's racing you say? Is it? Yeah well you can shove it coz i say what happened last night at the chicane was also "racing".

Do not forget Massa getting a fine, ffs, for what was blatantly a dangerous and potentially life threatening situation with 2 cars side by side in the pits - at speed limit mind you - and Massa as the dick of the year when he said " He should have slowed down and let me through, blah blah blah - Im the leader, blergh blah."

Wanker.

If that wasnt enough to warrant the stewards to act on his own admission of guilt and arrogance then i dont know what is.

Outcome? - f**king chump change.

Youve all seen so many dodgy f**king decisions here this year consistently involving, lo and behold, Mac of all teams and all you can do is ride the coat tails of the FIA manuscript.

Im gonna hurl, seriously.

Im defending the sport, ffs.

[Marco-R34GTT]

All I'll add is that consider that the Bus-stop was kitty litter and not bitumen run off... Lewis would either had of:

1) Backed off at the last moment, play ball and follow kimi through racing line.

2) Move to the outside, criss-cross Kimi and 'try' to 'fairly' get a better run into La Source.

3) Beached.

Baron is spot on, he cut that gap entirely by doing what he did, had he followed the actual track (Let alone the racing line), he may very well have been a couple of tenths closer to kimi. Ultimately, this gap was slashed because Lewis went on a bit of an off-track excursion.. Likewise, I'll quote Baron again, Lewis is aggressive, and yes I love it too, reminds me of Schumi, but Lewis just can't seem to keep the lid on the pressure cooker...