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2008 F1 Season

wolverine

By wolverine,
in Motorsport Discussion & Builds

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m3gtr Grand Master

m3gtr

Posted
Posted

See above Salad.

You tell me whos more qualified to judge and dont get into nationalities please.

Thats just pointless because if you are an F1 fan - a REAL F1 fan, you will respect SIR Jackie Stewart as much as the late Brockie, at the very least.

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m3gtr Grand Master

m3gtr

Posted
Posted

If you want to bring F1 drivers into then fine.

I'm up for that and ill take JS over JT any day of the millennium.

Last time i checked one had won a few championships and one had a race win under his belt... :D

m3gtr Grand Master

m3gtr

Posted
Posted
Dont bring nationalities into it? I am not going to be goated anymore Adam...

gallery_462_50_7269.png

pfft - sif sex is better than F1 anyway.

and sif i was "goating" you, Roy.

You still havent adressed the issue of JS opinion vs JT opinion...

instead you have focussed on the word "nationaliteeeeee"

( I was joking about F1 being better than sex by the way,,.,,,....)

m3gtr Grand Master

m3gtr

Posted
Posted

Hamilton cut the chicane there is no doubt; however there is also no doubt that he lifted to allow Kimi back in front. The question that will be debated on this and other websites for days to come is whether he lifted enough.

Marco-R34GTT Grand Master

Marco-R34GTT

Posted
Posted

Adam...

Are you related to any of the great dictators of the 20th century?? I ask this because, you appear to have the incredible resemblance to many of them, in the form of ranting like a complete mad-man... Utterly convinced by your own own arguments, completely oblivious to another peoples point of views and choosing (even if consciously not aware) to overlook that stark obvious facts...

As far as I, and many others are concern, he broke regulation, incident was reviewed, he was punished accordingly and that is that... If you want to start questioning JT on the basis you have, save yourself.. You've not only dug yur own grave, you're already neck deep in it.. Lastly, and quite frankly, there isn't a damn thing you can do about it...

Roy Grand Master

Roy

Posted
Posted

I agree with JS re the full time stewards...but some of other stuff, well he sits on the other side of the argument...there are two valid views....BUT

JS - "We saw earlier in the year, at Silverstone, that Raikkonen isn't comfortable driving his Ferrari in the wet and it was the same on Sunday. Hamilton was clearly much faster and was going to pass him sooner or later. The stewards should have taken that into account.

Cant agree. Stewards deal with the event on its merits. Not what happened several GPs ago in wet conditions...and they should have used their crystal ball to predict that Lewis was not going to make a mistake and KImi would have been slower and nto able to match the pace of the McLaren. If that was the case they shoudl promote Webber a few spots as they can crystal ball that if Heikki didnt punt him he woudl have finished higher up as well. The last thing the system needs is to introduce more subjective opinion....thats my opinion :D

JS seems more pre-occupied with Lewis cutting the chicane, with "Yes he gained a position..." seeming like an afterhought. Not the issue it was. He gave back the position, but my understanding is he was penalised because he gained an advantage. Harry got it in one re the constantina effect. He gaiend track position on Kimi....its all very line ball but i think on that ruling they are correct. Did he dive up under brakes courtesy of Kimi being too careful...yes. BUT, JT correctly pointed out...you hang arond the outside like that and if the move doesnt pay off....then you lose time on ....he gained time out of the situation...so. Thats it....fark it i am going to drink more of this horrible Indian wine

m3gtr Grand Master

m3gtr

Posted
Posted
Adam... Lastly, and quite frankly, there isn't a damn thing you can do about it...

Thats the most frustrating part. Personally, I would if i could and i hope to God someone is doing something about it - funny that...

- as you said this, Mac was going through with the appeal.

Would you, Marco, prefer to see the standings remain as they are?

If so, why?

m3gtr Grand Master

m3gtr

Posted
Posted
I agree with JS re the full time stewards...but some of other stuff, well he sits on the other side of the argument...there are two valid views....BUT

JS - "We saw earlier in the year, at Silverstone, that Raikkonen isn't comfortable driving his Ferrari in the wet and it was the same on Sunday. Hamilton was clearly much faster and was going to pass him sooner or later. The stewards should have taken that into account.

Cant agree. Stewards deal with the event on its merits.

Well, isn't that the biggest difference between a part time-know-nothing-muppet hack and 3 time world champion if ever I've seen one!

( lol @ the cheapness of Roy and his wine...sif not drink aussie wine mang. )

m3gtr Grand Master

m3gtr

Posted
Posted
Adam... If you want to start questioning JT on the basis you have, save yourself..

Yeah that's the thing... its good a 3xWDC has waded into the argument on OUR behalf then isnt it?

Marco-R34GTT Grand Master

Marco-R34GTT

Posted
Posted
Yeah that's the thing... its good a 3xWDC has waded into the argument on OUR behalf then isnt it?

I have awesome respect for JYS, especially the way he stands up to max Mosley. I also would consider him very impartial and calls a spade a spade. However, it is fair to say that Jackie did race in a past era, I'm not saying that would in any way be any worse in terms of makign a judgement. However compare that to Trulli, he's in those things every second weekend, he knows first hand their braking power, their immense acceleration and I'm sure Jarno has been stung here and there by the stewards... Not taking anything away from Jackie, 3 times WDC is not something for someone to thumb their nose at, but his era of racing compared to the current one is rather irrelevent..

Duncan Grand Master

Duncan

Posted
Posted

You know adam, you really should lay off the stewards in here unless you have tried the job yourself.

These guys are expected to stay on top of complex rules, teams cheating to the maximum extent possible without getting caught every day, being provided with mounds of meaningless data to support arguments, teams turning up with lawyers to hearings. And on top of all that they are not allowed to watch the races - they can only act on the reports of other judges and any supporting evidence supplied.

So....if you care so much about the sport, go and volunteer as a trainee steward at a local event. Do a couple and then come and report back on how it felt to walk in their shoes. IMHO its a real bastard of a job and no-one will ever appreciate the decisions you come to, especially at national and international level.

And for what its worth, it is self evident that LH would not have been that close to KR unless he cut the chicane. But I think that point has already been done to death.

And as I said in my original post on sunday night....well done to LH to outdrive KR in the wet - he did a great job in those last 2 laps.

Muz Experienced

Muz

Posted
Posted
I have awesome respect for JYS, especially the way he stands up to max Mosley. I also would consider him very impartial and calls a spade a spade. However, it is fair to say that Jackie did race in a past era, I'm not saying that would in any way be any worse in terms of makign a judgement. However compare that to Trulli, he's in those things every second weekend, he knows first hand their braking power, their immense acceleration and I'm sure Jarno has been stung here and there by the stewards... Not taking anything away from Jackie, 3 times WDC is not something for someone to thumb their nose at, but his era of racing compared to the current one is rather irrelevent..

Yes I suppose it is irrelevent. For a start the Stewart era didn't have any of the aids or protection that drivers have these days ........

djr81 Grand Master

djr81

Posted
Posted
Yes I suppose it is irrelevent. For a start the Stewart era didn't have any of the aids or protection that drivers have these days ........

Eh? Which one of the drivers has aids? :blink:

What everyone ignores is that the corner apex speed of the McLaren at that point was hugely superior to the Ferrari. If you watch the next lap after the overtake you will see Kimi maintaining speed with LH until a few corners later when his car snaps on him. There follows a series of spins etc ending with him in the wall. It is relevant simply because it indicates the paucity of grip the Ferrari had at that time of the race.

It was the better grip of the McLaren combined with the poor line Kimi took into the corner following the chicane that allowed Hamilton to get past. Remember Kimi ran into the back of Lewis at the apex of the corner so it was not as though he only just snuck by.

As for the argument about whose had track positioning into the chicane this reflects one of the fundmental changes in F1. In years past (& not too many at that) drivers would not run each other out of road simply because to do so would result in someone getting hurt. They can do it now however because of the replacement of walls & sandtraps with run off areas. They all do it & it detracts from the sport.

Beer Baron Grand Master

Beer Baron

Posted
Posted
He couldn't stay behind Kimi because of the line the Ferrari took into the chicane.

he couldn't stay behind kimi because he was making a massive lunge from a long way back with nothing in reserve to allow himself to pull in behind should his move not be completed. so he cut the corner and but doing so gained track position. had their been a wall there he would not have been able to make that huge lunge under brakes. that is where he gained all the time.

djr81 Grand Master

djr81

Posted
Posted
he couldn't stay behind kimi because he was making a massive lunge from a long way back with nothing in reserve to allow himself to pull in behind should his move not be completed. so he cut the corner and but doing so gained track position. had their been a wall there he would not have been able to make that huge lunge under brakes. that is where he gained all the time.

I dunno. I don't reckon you get to make an overtaking move & have anything in reserve. It just doesn't work.

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