2008 F1 Season

[blackrex]

Autosport

How much bad luck can Webber have? Being taken out by a TRAM must rank as one of the most bizarre reasons for retiring from a race...

[Duncan]

that....is the weakest of weak excuses I have ever heard.

goddamn moogs.

[sh@un]

moog valve?

are they sure they also eliminated the arctic boosh eddy current suppresion ring as a possible cause?

[sh@un]

http://www.formula1.com/news/features/2008/10/8472.html

wow

after all these decades of being banned, looks like moveable aero devices will make an appearance to improve the racing. top stuff

adding yet another layer of complexity to F1 cars for the drivers to tweak on the fly can only even further distance the great from the merely good

[ctjet]

dont like it

i can feel the loopholes and unnecessary and inevitable bickering

Edited October 4, 2008 by ctjet

[sh@un]

give it a chance mang

KERS plus this development should make for some interesting passing manouvers.

[jase-r34]

Anything they can do to liven up the races with more overtaking is a step forward I think.

I am a total F1 tragic and will watch it no matter what, but I can see why some people say it can be boring. There is not enough overtaking!

[knore]

Anything they can do to liven up the races with more overtaking is a step forward I think.

I am a total F1 tragic and will watch it no matter what, but I can see why some people say it can be boring. There is not enough overtaking!

I dont think its so much the problem of overtaking.

Its more so that some cars are just that much faster than others and means the people we each go for cant win, no matter how good they are.

For example.. How lewis can just slipstream people lap by lap and take positions thanks to mclarens strong drive out of the corner and high top speed.

Obviously leauges like A1 etc where they are all in the same cars is extremely boring. But when there is a massive gap between cars in racing it can be quite irritating.

One thing i know for sure is there is alot of honda car lovers out there (Asian guys), and you cant blame them for not liking F1 considering how dismal honda is at the moment.

It can be hard to go for and support a team or driver when they never achieve anything.

[Marco-R34GTT]

Yet Button gave Honda their first win little more than 2 years ago...

It is that stupid 'Earth Dream' livery, has been slowing the Honda's down waayyyy too much...

[sh@un]

I am a total F1 tragic and will watch it no matter what, but I can see why some people say it can be boring. There is not enough overtaking!

but a real F1 fan appreciates that the racing isn't just about overtaking- it's also about the stategies the team has to employ re: how much fuel to run/how many pit-stops to make, what tyres to use and when, trying to second guess the weather. if you just wanna see constant overtaking, then it prolly bores the hell out of you. but i like trying to figure out how all the different factors will play out in the end- like how i know the Ferrari drivers will start driving like n00bs the moment it starts raining , then it's great stuff

[Roy]

Heikki is the massa of mclaren, he ticks enough of the right boxes to get the seat. Given half the chance of a better alternative, they'll both get given the boot by their teams

Neither of them should be driving their respective cars, especially when theres guys like Kubica, Alonso and Rosberg looking to get the cars their skills deserve

Im coming around to hammo because he's proven he clearly deseves his seat because of his results and his attitude and passion for the sport. The fact that he's big mouth has no bearing on his ability.

The thing with Massa that i like is that generally he seems like a nice enough guy and is usually all smiles. He has had some talent, but more then anything it seems his talent got him so far and that flat out hard work has bridged the gap. In his first year at Ferrari he was far closer to MS then Heikki has been to Lewis. In his first year at Ferrari he bagged wins on merit, poles etc.

Whilst not a huge fan of Massa, i am beginning to respect him immensely with the way he has driven this year. Like other drivers he has been caught out by circumstances or made mistakes this year. But his racing is far improved. I mean his racing of Lewis on the first lap a few races ago...it was a damn good move and completely unexpected of Massa. His racing in the wet at Monza where he hwas hussling in the mid pack fighting for 6th position and carrying what is seemingly a difficult car in the wet.

I think ppl are simply reading into the Kimi thing as him underperforming rather then Massa having improved. How many fastest laps has Kimi had this year? Hasnt he equalled the record of fastest laps in a season? The Ferrari is very fast in the right conditions but seems to have too small a setup window, whilst the McLaren seems to be far more flexible in its setup to conditions. Massa has proved to be able to pull qualifying laps together and get more from the car durings parts of the race where the car isnt in its sweet spot.

I want to see Massa win the title because i think he has greatly improved and i like the fact that he is a worker and seemingly nice enough guy. If Lewis wins then you have to respect the fact that he has won the WDC in his second year, but he has had the luck on his side this year.

But doesnt change the fact that he is a tool from what i read and hear. The complete lack of respect for his fellow competitors and the reckless way he drives! It deadset upsets me. I see a bloke like Zanardi have the drama he has had in his racing career, then i see an arrogant Hamilton doing reckless things in a racing car....well lets just hope we dont see a horrible accident courtesy of his brazen racing

[djr81]

Yet Button gave Honda their first win little more than 2 years ago...

It is that stupid 'Earth Dream' livery, has been slowing the Honda's down waayyyy too much...

Ah, um, Honda first won an F1 race in 1965. Mexico as it happens. Richie Ginther.

Which pretty much pre-dates every other constructor in the championship bar one.

[ctjet]

The thing with Massa that i like is that generally he seems like a nice enough guy and is usually all smiles. He has had some talent, but more then anything it seems his talent got him so far and that flat out hard work has bridged the gap. In his first year at Ferrari he was far closer to MS then Heikki has been to Lewis. In his first year at Ferrari he bagged wins on merit, poles etc.

Whilst not a huge fan of Massa, i am beginning to respect him immensely with the way he has driven this year. Like other drivers he has been caught out by circumstances or made mistakes this year. But his racing is far improved. I mean his racing of Lewis on the first lap a few races ago...it was a damn good move and completely unexpected of Massa. His racing in the wet at Monza where he hwas hussling in the mid pack fighting for 6th position and carrying what is seemingly a difficult car in the wet.

I want to see Massa win the title because i think he has greatly improved and i like the fact that he is a worker and seemingly nice enough guy. If Lewis wins then you have to respect the fact that he has won the WDC in his second year, but he has had the luck on his side this year.

we see his personality traits and attitude from two completely different perspectives

I don’t think either of us will see eye to eye on this.

I see him as a fortunate yet undeserving pilot of his current seat with a quitters attitute if he is buried in the field. You see him as a hard worker who carries a positive attitude.

Interesting question tho. If when his contract time is up, and so is Alonso’s and Kubica’s... would you still keep him?

I think ppl are simply reading into the Kimi thing as him underperforming rather then Massa having improved. How many fastest laps has Kimi had this year? Hasnt he equalled the record of fastest laps in a season? The Ferrari is very fast in the right conditions but seems to have too small a setup window, whilst the McLaren seems to be far more flexible in its setup to conditions. Massa has proved to be able to pull qualifying laps together and get more from the car durings parts of the race where the car isnt in its sweet spot.

To hit that sweet spot in almost every race would suggest that its not as small as some would have us believe. Ironically the constant mechanical failures through reliability upgrades does make some of us smile

doesn’t help his WDC cause much tho.

But doesnt change the fact that he is a tool from what i read and hear. The complete lack of respect for his fellow competitors and the reckless way he drives! It deadset upsets me. I see a bloke like Zanardi have the drama he has had in his racing career, then i see an arrogant Hamilton doing reckless things in a racing car....well lets just hope we dont see a horrible accident courtesy of his brazen racing

You should have seen this other guy who raced a few years back... schumacher was his name

Im yet to see lewis do anything near as reprehensible as the old Choppy-Mc-Scum ever did, and yet one can be classed as so totally different from the other. There is no difference. Both hard and fast drivers who put on a good show. Is is clear now tho they they both share the same flaws. A desperate need to win at almost any cost, the need for a weak teammate, both push the letter of the law to the extreme and both having very poor interpersonal skills.

As soon as people start to realise that lewis is just ITV ‘s new black version of schumacher, the more enjoyment they will derive from F1 as a sport. That’s his personality, if it rubs you the wrong way, how about you all man up and deal with it like the rest of us had to for the last 10 odd years with the schum.

The constant nagging about something that will never change will eventually get very tiresome and turn you into bitter old women.

Edited October 6, 2008 by ctjet

[Mika]

we see his personality traits and attitude from two completely different perspectives

I don’t think either of us will see eye to eye on this.

I see him as a fortunate yet undeserving pilot of his current seat with a quitters attitute if he is buried in the field. You see him as a hard worker who carries a positive attitude.

Interesting question tho. If when his contract time is up, and so is Alonso’s and Kubica’s... would you still keep him?

To hit that sweet spot in almost every race would suggest that its not as small as some would have us believe. Ironically the constant mechanical failures through reliability upgrades does make some of us smile

doesn’t help his WDC cause much tho.

You should have seen this other guy who raced a few years back... schumacher was his name

Im yet to see lewis do anything near as reprehensible as the old Choppy-Mc-Scum ever did, and yet one can be classed as so totally different from the other. There is no difference. Both hard and fast drivers who put on a good show. Is is clear now tho they they both share the same flaws. A desperate need to win at almost any cost, the need for a weak teammate, both push the letter of the law to the extreme and both having very poor interpersonal skills.

As soon as people start to realise that lewis is just ITV ‘s new black version of schumacher, the more enjoyment they will derive from F1 as a sport. That’s his personality, if it rubs you the wrong way, how about you all man up and deal with it like the rest of us had to for the last 10 odd years with the schum.

The constant nagging about something that will never change will eventually get very tiresome and turn you into bitter old women.

Personally, I see massa as a whinger...win or lose, he never accepts blame for anything he has done and is quick to criticise any other driver for misdemeanours. That's what really irks me about him, Kimi on the other hand, I have no issue with (except that he is a traitor! ).

As for the Schumacher comment, I agree with the fact schumacher was much worse with his on track aggression, however, I don't believe Lewis is or ever will be as bad as Schumacher because he became bigger than the team around him. Lewis on the other hand is on a tighter leash and has the team keeping a lid on things. I wouldn't say he has poor interpersonal skills, every interview i have seen with him he has been frank with a let's move on mentality when he's believed he's been on the wrong end of a decision. I guess if you have a negative view of someone you will invariably see them that way regardless of what they do. Also, I think Lewis proved in his first year that he doesn't have a need for a weaker team mate. To be beaten by a bee's dick in the same car by the reigning world champion proves that point. If anything he's probably been hindered this year by having Heikki being less competitive than the Ferrari's as he hasn't been taking points away from them.

[ctjet]

Personally, I see massa as a whinger...win or lose, he never accepts blame for anything he has done and is quick to criticise any other driver for misdemeanours. That's what really irks me about him, Kimi on the other hand, I have no issue with (except that he is a traitor! ).

As for the Schumacher comment, I agree with the fact schumacher was much worse with his on track aggression, however, I don't believe Lewis is or ever will be as bad as Schumacher because he became bigger than the team around him. Lewis on the other hand is on a tighter leash and has the team keeping a lid on things. I wouldn't say he has poor interpersonal skills, every interview i have seen with him he has been frank with a let's move on mentality when he's believed he's been on the wrong end of a decision. I guess if you have a negative view of someone you will invariably see them that way regardless of what they do. Also, I think Lewis proved in his first year that he doesn't have a need for a weaker team mate. To be beaten by a bee's dick in the same car by the reigning world champion proves that point. If anything he's probably been hindered this year by having Heikki being less competitive than the Ferrari's as he hasn't been taking points away from them.

having a strong team mate may not have affected his on track performance, for the most part, last year because he made himself out to be the victim in the ongoing issues the team had. Mentally tho at the end of the year he crumbled, and his results reflected that. Where as this year he seems to rather enjoy, flourish even, in the knowledge he has a big physiological advantage over his team mate... again... like schumacher

Both Alonso and kimi struggled int he first half of last year remember, with the switch in teams and more importantly tyres. Given Alonsos performance in the second half of the season, i dont think lewis would have been any kind of threat to him had he started off as strongly as he finished.

Edited October 6, 2008 by ctjet

[Marco-R34GTT]

Still, I'd say Schumacher had/has tonnes more strength of character than Hamilton... Also, I don't think I've ever seen/heard of Hamilton being remotely humble, Schumacher has an arrogant and ruthless copetator, however he ALWAYS gave credit where it was due.. I think of the 1999 Japanese GP where Schumacher basically admitted the Hak was his best rival and that he thoroughly deserved his Championship.. I'd also like to think back to Schumi's 2nd last race at Suzuka... The fact he made it a point to shake hands with all his mechanics... I'd hate to think how he was feeling at that time, but it was an awesome gesture...

Also, I can't ever see Hamilton having the constitution to move to a crappy also-ran team and turn them into a multiple championship winning machine... Can't visualise that determination, dedication, patience or prudence to undertake such a monumental task...

[jase-r34]

but a real F1 fan appreciates that the racing isn't just about overtaking- it's also about the stategies the team has to employ re: how much fuel to run/how many pit-stops to make, what tyres to use and when, trying to second guess the weather. if you just wanna see constant overtaking, then it prolly bores the hell out of you. but i like trying to figure out how all the different factors will play out in the end- like how i know the Ferrari drivers will start driving like n00bs the moment it starts raining , then it's great stuff

Thats why I said I love it regardless.... The lack of overtaking is in my opinion why there are a lot of people out there that would rather watch V8 supercars than F1. Overtaking or not, I have watched almost every F1 in as many years as I can remember, but rarely watch the V8's anymore....They need to bring the GTR's back!

[ctjet]

Also, I can't ever see Hamilton having the constitution to move to a crappy also-ran team and turn them into a multiple championship winning machine... Can't visualise that determination, dedication, patience or prudence to undertake such a monumental task...

*cough* $$$ *cough*

lets not get to nostalgic hey

Edited October 6, 2008 by ctjet

[Mika]

Still, I'd say Schumacher had/has tonnes more strength of character than Hamilton... Also, I don't think I've ever seen/heard of Hamilton being remotely humble, Schumacher has an arrogant and ruthless copetator, however he ALWAYS gave credit where it was due.. I think of the 1999 Japanese GP where Schumacher basically admitted the Hak was his best rival and that he thoroughly deserved his Championship.. I'd also like to think back to Schumi's 2nd last race at Suzuka... The fact he made it a point to shake hands with all his mechanics... I'd hate to think how he was feeling at that time, but it was an awesome gesture...

Also, I can't ever see Hamilton having the constitution to move to a crappy also-ran team and turn them into a multiple championship winning machine... Can't visualise that determination, dedication, patience or prudence to undertake such a monumental task...

Schumacher was in F1 for 16 seasons, Hamilton has been here for 2. You're comparing an old hand's character with a complete F1 rookie. He's worked hard and earned his place at McLaren and is doing what most F1 drivers wouldn't dare to dream of doing in their first years in F1. He'll be older and wiser as time goes by. You can already see massive changes in his approach to everything compared to last year.

Ferrari may have been an also ran at the time, but it was never crappy. They more or less brought the brains trust behind Benneton's dual WC winning team to Ferrari. It wasn't just the driver, it was the design concepts and ideas that came with it that made the team. Funnily enough, Benneton fell by the wayside as Ferrari grew stronger.

[Marco-R34GTT]

How old was Schumacher when he went to Ferrari??? 25??