2008 F1 Season

[dezz]

Thats great. I'll say it right now and be happy to be held to it next year

Ferrari 09 > Honda 09.

[ctjet]

i dont think anybody ever disputed that? wtf

Again, value for money... the money Force India, not honda, save by buying (what could be a very competitive package) they can use to develop other more critical areas of their cars. Thats the point. You dont get to the top from the bottom in one year. This is a great step forward for such a small team, and a great business decision for long term competitiveness.

[dezz]

i dont think anybody ever disputed that? wtf

Honda have spend MUCH more time than ferrari and are rumoured to be a long way infront of most other teams and their respective KERS systems. To expect that this years running order will be the same next year is short sighted. Honda WILL do well next year, and Force India are taking a calculated risk in jumpng onboard with them

I never said you said it, but it was implied in your post whether you meant it to be or not.

All I'm saying is, regardless of how much time or money Honda have spent over Ferrari, Honda will not be in front of Ferrari in 09.

[ctjet]

maybe not in terms of lap time, but i dont think that matters at all to Forcve India... two completely different cars.

All they want from Honda is a reliable and competitive engine and KERS system... nothing else. I dont think thats where you're making the difference. Where Honda is in relation to Ferrari in every other aspect is of little concern to Vijay and Mike.

[wolverine]

i'm with ctjet here.

more money for aero/chassis development has got to be a priority.

[Roy]

Looks to be an interesting GP coming up, McLaren quick (can Heikki finally shine?) and Ferrari quick as always. But importantly other teams all have new range of aero and susp mods coming on line.

And credit to Lewis where credit is due. If he is tapping Nicole Scherzinger then more power to him.

[ctjet]

werent some of the chicks in that group acctually guys?

[m3gtr]

Looks to be an interesting GP coming up, McLaren quick (can Heikki finally shine?) and Ferrari quick as always. But importantly other teams all have new range of aero and susp mods coming on line.

And credit to Lewis where credit is due. If he is tapping Nicole Scherzinger then more power to him.

Shes not that hot. Makeup these days, eh?

[ctjet]

she does acctually look shes put on some unsightly weight in the bottom end

totally hittable still tho

[Garage Menace]

This is sure to open wounds of a couple weeks ago but I came across a post on another website that sums up the Hamilton / Vettel, should he or shouldn't he get a drive through penalty argument perfectly.

I will preface my post by saying, I absolutely hate Lewis Hamilton. I will give credit where it is due for his extraordinary driving (not necessarily racing) ability, but his smug, whiney attitude of entitlement makes me detest him in a way I have never detested a driver in my 23yrs of watching F1.

Also, my own opinion of the move was he deserved his penalty. I will not argue the merits of my perspective as it has been done to death and will be summarised below, but it is based on my own 7 year career as a professional motor racer, and is not coloured by my dislike for the McLaren muppet.

Lewis clearly gained an advantage and deserved his drive-thru. Yes, he was past Vettel but the only way he "completed" the pass was by sacrificing the next corner. His penalty would have been far worse if there were a sand trap or guardrail there. In fact, he never would have attempted the move if there were...which tells you everything.

Nicholas D'Amato

NJ, USA

The last line sums it up perfectly. Could have put it better myself, but it would have taken a lot longer.

All you Hamilton lovers out there, I challenge you to negate this point with facts, and not "McLaren bosses thought it was unfair and they know more about F1 than you." McLaren have a vested interest to plead their own case...

[Roy]

No need, after this weekend we will have a new reason to throw flack at the guy as i am sure he will stuff up again LOL, remember lat year and that pit stop

And coming up to his home GP you think he woudl be ducking for cover and not giving the press anything to print. But this following statement shows just how delusional he is at present

Hamilton insists that he does not ignore the advice of Stewart and Hill. "Whenever I speak to Damon or Jackie I do take what they say on board, but I'm not going to go searching them out and ask how I can be world champion. I want to do it on my own. I got to where I am on my own, with my family," he said.

LOL, its a hard, hard life for Lewis, struggling through all those years of motorsport with novody but hsi dear old dad

[lingeringsoul]

I still stand by what I said before, fire the damn Macca PR man. The more they try, the worse off it makes him look. Either that or slap some sense into the kid.

[djr81]

This is sure to open wounds of a couple weeks ago but I came across a post on another website that sums up the Hamilton / Vettel, should he or shouldn't he get a drive through penalty argument perfectly.

I will preface my post by saying, I absolutely hate Lewis Hamilton. I will give credit where it is due for his extraordinary driving (not necessarily racing) ability, but his smug, whiney attitude of entitlement makes me detest him in a way I have never detested a driver in my 23yrs of watching F1.

Also, my own opinion of the move was he deserved his penalty. I will not argue the merits of my perspective as it has been done to death and will be summarised below, but it is based on my own 7 year career as a professional motor racer, and is not coloured by my dislike for the McLaren muppet.

Lewis clearly gained an advantage and deserved his drive-thru. Yes, he was past Vettel but the only way he "completed" the pass was by sacrificing the next corner. His penalty would have been far worse if there were a sand trap or guardrail there. In fact, he never would have attempted the move if there were...which tells you everything.

Nicholas D'Amato

NJ, USA

The last line sums it up perfectly. Could have put it better myself, but it would have taken a lot longer.

All you Hamilton lovers out there, I challenge you to negate this point with facts, and not "McLaren bosses thought it was unfair and they know more about F1 than you." McLaren have a vested interest to plead their own case...

The last time I saw someone do that was a bloke who used to drive a Ferrari, Michael something. If memory serves it was at Monza but the important point is that despite pulling a near on identical move (ie overtake then run out of room & go off track & miss the chicane) he, Schumacher, did not get a penalty. Reason? Because the overtake was "complete" before he ran off track.

[Garage Menace]

The last time I saw someone do that was a bloke who used to drive a Ferrari, Michael something. If memory serves it was at Monza but the important point is that despite pulling a near on identical move (ie overtake then run out of room & go off track & miss the chicane) he, Schumacher, did not get a penalty. Reason? Because the overtake was "complete" before he ran off track.

Just because someone has gone unpunished for a similar infraction does not mean the little turd didn't deserve his penalty. You guys can complain about rigging and double standards all you want. He deserved the drive through.

If you are arguing that all it takes for a passing move to be complete is for a car to be in front of another, then you know bugger-all about motorsport (I'm not saying you know bugger-all). Anyone can pass anyone if they don't have to worry about pulling up for the next turn...

I'm getting into something I didn't want to, but I fail to see how anyone can argue the point that Hamilton never would have attempted, or completed, the "pass" if there was a guard rail or sand-trap instead of a nice runoff area, and he never would have tried if there was, which says it all.

I also agree with Martin BRUNDLE's point that nowadays there are too many tarmac runoff areas that do not punish drivers for making skill errors. Those that can push the limits without crossing them are disadvantaged by those that push past the limits but have an endless supply of road to mask their errors...

Edited July 1, 2008 by Garage Menace

[m3gtr]

Just because someone has gone unpunished for a similar infraction does not mean the little turd didn't deserve his penalty. You guys can complain about rigging and double standards all you want. He deserved the drive through.

If you are arguing that all it takes for a passing move to be complete is for a car to be in front of another, then you know bugger-all about motorsport (I'm not saying you know bugger-all). Anyone can pass anyone if they don't have to worry about pulling up for the next turn...

I'm getting into something I didn't want to, but I fail to see how anyone can argue the point that Hamilton never would have attempted, or completed, the "pass" if there was a guard rail or sand-trap instead of a nice runoff area, and he never would have tried if there was, which says it all.

I also agree with Martin BRUNDLE's point that nowadays there are too many tarmac runoff areas that do not punish drivers for making skill errors. Those that can push the limits without crossing them are disadvantaged by those that push past the limits but have an endless supply of road to mask their errors...

Your bias is getting the better of you. Simple as that. That "little turd" has made more out of 7 years as a racing driver than you i imagine.

I suppose you will now say that taking someone on the outside and running out of road is hard to do.

You say give credit where credit is due but arguing the penalty is hardly worth any credit, is it? Even the stewards regret the decision because it was borderline to begin with - once the "investigation" was rolling Lewis HAD to get a penalty but i do NOT agree he DESERVED one.

[djr81]

Just because someone has gone unpunished for a similar infraction does not mean the little turd didn't deserve his penalty. You guys can complain about rigging and double standards all you want. He deserved the drive through.

If you are arguing that all it takes for a passing move to be complete is for a car to be in front of another, then you know bugger-all about motorsport (I'm not saying you know bugger-all). Anyone can pass anyone if they don't have to worry about pulling up for the next turn...

I'm getting into something I didn't want to, but I fail to see how anyone can argue the point that Hamilton never would have attempted, or completed, the "pass" if there was a guard rail or sand-trap instead of a nice runoff area, and he never would have tried if there was, which says it all.

I also agree with Martin BRUNDLE's point that nowadays there are too many tarmac runoff areas that do not punish drivers for making skill errors. Those that can push the limits without crossing them are disadvantaged by those that push past the limits but have an endless supply of road to mask their errors...

I wasn't particularly arguing anything, just pointing out that others have done the same & gone unpunished.

Martin Brundle may have a point, but Stirling Moss used to say the same sort of thing about sand traps, run off areas basically anything that didn't end up killing and or injuring the driver if he had an off.

Times change, so do standards.

Bottom line is two fold:

1. Good on Lewis for having a go.

2. Maybe everyone could lessen the hate. Just a little. Just maybe. I am pretty sure LH hasn't done anything to personally upset anyone on this forum.

[m3gtr]

Just because someone has gone unpunished for a similar infraction does not mean the little turd didn't deserve his penalty. You guys can complain about rigging and double standards all you want. He deserved the drive through.

If you are arguing that all it takes for a passing move to be complete is for a car to be in front of another, then you know bugger-all about motorsport (I'm not saying you know bugger-all). Anyone can pass anyone if they don't have to worry about pulling up for the next turn...

I'm getting into something I didn't want to, but I fail to see how anyone can argue the point that Hamilton never would have attempted, or completed, the "pass" if there was a guard rail or sand-trap instead of a nice runoff area, and he never would have tried if there was, which says it all.

I also agree with Martin BRUNDLE's point that nowadays there are too many tarmac runoff areas that do not punish drivers for making skill errors. Those that can push the limits without crossing them are disadvantaged by those that push past the limits but have an endless supply of road to mask their errors...

One more thing. How do you explain then, Hamilton winning at Monaco where there isnt a single place on the whole circuit you couldnt kill yourself on?

No runoff there and i seem to recall he did pretty well there in 2007 too.

[Garage Menace]

That "little turd" has made more out of 7 years as a racing driver than you i imagine.

You don't know me, so don't get personal.

I was not a professional racing "driver." I was a professional motocross rider, a sport who anyone in the motorsport game will tell you has more racecraft than any other, and where your results are 90% ability, 10% bike, as opposed to almost the opposite with the higher forms of 4-wheeled tarmac racing. What have you done?

I'll stay out of this one as I live by the saying, never argue with a fool. They drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

Flame away while defending your precious Lewis. I'll crawl back under my hole.

Edited July 1, 2008 by Garage Menace

[Roy]

Even the stewards regret the decision because it was borderline to begin with - once the "investigation" was rolling Lewis HAD to get a penalty but i do NOT agree he DESERVED one.

Now you are making up facts

Basically its a slow news day and the F1 media are stretching for every line they can ... Lewis is never going to win out in these conditions. He shoud hush puppy until he actually has something to speak about.

I feel the penalty was deserved. I think Heikki got screwed over a tad, i think Kimi not getting a black flag or meatball flag for his exhaust is a pathetic call .

But , i am just enjpying the next few days of chaos. After Sunday the world is going to be a better place after Lewis blitzes them at Silverstone. I am ready for the Senna-esque performance of winning from the lead after getting poll, with Heikki again 3 laps heavier on fuel and struggling for a grid position.

A little birdy also tells me the call baout driver lines up will get interesting 2-3 days after this GP?!?!

[m3gtr]

You don't know me, so don't get personal.

I was not a professional racing "driver." I was a professional motocross rider, a sport who anyone in the motorsport game will tell you has more racecraft than any other, and where your results are 90% ability, 10% bike, as opposed to almost the opposite with the higher forms of 4-wheeled tarmac racing. What have you done?

I'll stay out of this one as I live by the saying, never argue with a fool. They drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

Flame away while defending your precious Lewis. I'll crawl back under my hole.

Now hang on a sec. It was the disparaging comment you made that irked me. Thats all. Ive raced superkarts, 250 rotax max and ive been in and out of testing here in Japan for a couple of years now.

Dont think i really agree with you on the motorcross thing though. Going into a turn at 180 in a Kart with other karts centimetres away from you is pretty amazing in its own way.

Im not up for a bbq anyway, amigo and not looking to argue. I just didnt like the bias that you seemed to have. I dont think Hammo deserved the penalty. At all. Not for something so soft as cutting a chicane which everyone else seems to do these days and gets away with, so why not him?