Manifolds Do They Don't They

[chuckie]

thats exactly wat i wanted to hear ive been tryin to find out if anyone had used the stainless steam pipe for a manifold before and now i have and a result.. still cracks..

G`DAY LAD`S ,I have been reading all of this with regard to cracking weld`s,i have been in the welding game for some time & must say that most all of the manifold`s will have this happen.some very important thing happen when welding & the biggest influence is HEAT,& more so with stainless steel.if you post heat treat a manifold & destress it that will help alot.with most welding of high quality which have high heat issue`s then i think that you would heat treat it to take the stress of the welding processes & out of the item (manifold) .I worked in motor racing industry in the uk & all are item`s would have heat treatment regardless even the machined part`s.so you can limit what will happen to your equipment manifold`s hub`s wishbone`s,it`s not cheap but it make`s a big difference.All so with the welding i have seen on most manifold`s it dosen`t have enough weld around it so it is weak.It may look ok but it must have some sought of cap on it,this is a must as the cap make`s a big difference in over all strength,look at temp`s that a manifold is exposed to on constant bas`es from 0 deg`s to say 1000 deg`s may be more so to operate in that range it need`s to be top stuff,cheap will fail.Hope this has help some of you lad`s & lass`es out,cheer`s chuckie

[GeeTR]

Geez, anyone would think business owners have nothing better to do than sit on the computer and answer pm's, emails and posts...

Stop complaining and get back to the grindstone

Really though, Kyles manifolds have been proven many times, just not blantently on SAU. I think sometimes ppl need to look outside thier safe little blue on blue SAU IPB forum window

Chuckie you beat me to it

[Jmaac]

Chuckie's right, its the application of heat that will ultimately kill the welds. A manifold would benefit from being heat treated because it relieves any residual stresses created in the heat affected zone (HAZ) by the welding itself and thus making it less brittle. There are better&cheaper ways to prevent common cracking, i.e. elongate the bolt holes in pairs, starting at d, d + 0.06", d + 0.12" etc. This will allow the manifold to flex/expand whilst maintaining a seal, taking any strain off the welds themselves which is especially important for s/steel and less important for DI.

Go at least 413 s/s as thick as you can get it. DI is heaps better but its costly mainly because of the cost of tooling

Edited January 14, 2008 by Jmaac

[6BOOST]

If its of any interest on the cracking issue, I think half of it is weld quality, half is material selection. Like I said, the guy who welded the staino steam pipe manifold is a ticketed pressure vessel welder, it didn't crack cause he didn't weld, it cracked cause it was stainless. I've got a whole heap of info about it, like th efact stainless expands an contracts 270% more than mild steel, but thata a spiel for another time.

Suffice to say, all my manifolds come with a unlimited klm lifetime warranty, and in 780 odd manifolds, I have had 2 manifold crack, both were heat wrapped, both had no bracing, and both were used in racing applications with the full weight of the ront of the exhaust hanging off them. After repair and additional bracing, and adding a support to the exhaust, both cars have done another 12 months of racing with no issues. I have customers VL's with 30+k on the clock on the street with 350-400rwhp that have no issues to this day. As I said previously, the same quality and durability could be expected of most of the well made steam pipe manifolds on the market, just steer clear of stainless if you want a long life.

6BOOST

[WARLORD]

thanks 6boost for you time at least now if a sau member ever wonts to know some factual proof and not forum b/s that is thrown around ever so often, now all question i hope have been answered, again thanks to all who have had something interesting to say. i hope this has been a fact finding tread that continues, instead of a smart ass name calling wast of time where the back yard know it alls learn something as well.

Edited January 14, 2008 by WARLORD

[Mr Jollwah]

Surely there are grades of stainless that give a reasonable service life, namely 310 or 253ma.

Just most cheepy manifolds are made from bloody 304 and are too thin to last any amount of time.

[nissan200sx.dk]

just a note on my own exp with cheapo manifolds and cracking...

Has one, cracked 10 times within 6 months, fixed each time. Last time, the flange that mounts to the head, was grinded on machine to within 0.001 mm from end to end.

And quess what. Did never crack again. Over a year now. But will do the collector design thingy on the next. Wont buy manifold again.

When tourqed down, if just a little of, the flange will pull on the pipes and put stress on them.

Edited January 14, 2008 by nissan200sx.dk

[Billet Ricky]

I’m sure if you ask Kyle nicely he could source 321H S10 or S40 stainless steel buttwelds that will go the distance but by the time he gets the material here and makes the manifolds they are going to be around the same price as the Full Race manifolds.

Another option if you had an unlimited budget and want a super light thin wall manifold is Inconel tube.

At the end of the day the manifold design is far more important than the material it made from. A steam pipe manifold coated inside will look ascetically pleasing, will perform just as well as a S/S manifold of the same design, Won’t crack, Won’t tarnish like S/S and will be a hell of a lot cheaper.

Kind regards,

Ricky.

[6BOOST]

There is absolutely ZERO benifit of mild steel over staino other than appearance, and as Ricky has said, if its that important to you, get it coated!!

6BOOST:)

[GeeTR]

Its Fantasy

Edited January 15, 2008 by GeeTR

[Mr Jollwah]

I have heard that full race manifolds are Sch 40 304 for the runners and Sch 40 316H for the collector.

I would've thought that stainless would have more resistance to scaling than steam pipe.

Yeah, once again you could get it coated.

Each to their own I guess.

[unkl bob]

There is absolutely ZERO benifit of mild steel over staino other than appearance, and as Ricky has said, if its that important to you, get it coated!!

6BOOST:)

Hi guys new member, love the site. I build gas turbines(jet engines) out of turbo chargers and currently in the process of doing an rb30/25 conversion in an r33. From all the research I have done over the years I can tell you that the thermal effeciency of steam pipe is greater than stainless steel. ie. heat is retained a lot better inside steam pipe tubing as compared to s/s. Heat is what makes the turbo spool and therefore it should in theory spool up faster(earlier) on a manifold made with steam pipe. Thats in theory...

[dangerman4]

hey Kyle

unfortunately for you i went with one of extremes manifolds, but i have seen both manifold first hand and know how great they are.

quick question, due to the weight factor have you looked down the titanium path?

my yfz10r quad had titanium headers and they were incredibally light.

i guess strength may be an issue for hanging a 7 kilo turbo on the side but im just curious.

[6BOOST]

Thats cool man, they are both good products, I'm sure your very happy with your purchase.

As for weight, we are talking about a manifold that weighs 10.8kg. A staino or titanium manifold would still weigh 4-7kg. I don't see what all the fuss is about the weight. Shit, surely people often drive around with 5-7kg of extra crap in their car as it is?? If its an issue that people have in theri head that the weight of the runners will effect longevity, then read my previous post that the few manufacturers in australia offer an unlimited klm lifteime warranty, obviously this does no seem a concern for us.

To answer your question directly tho, nobody makes titanium mandrel bends, I did some extensive research a few years ago, the only ways you could do it is mandrel bend them yourself(100k for a machine decent enough to do tightradius bends for a manifold) or lobster back it, which is just crazy. It just isn't feasible, and may not last any longer than staino.

6BOOST

[STATUS]

Thats cool man, they are both good products, I'm sure your very happy with your purchase.

As for weight, we are talking about a manifold that weighs 10.8kg. A staino or titanium manifold would still weigh 4-7kg. I don't see what all the fuss is about the weight. Shit, surely people often drive around with 5-7kg of extra crap in their car as it is?? If its an issue that people have in theri head that the weight of the runners will effect longevity, then read my previous post that the few manufacturers in australia offer an unlimited klm lifteime warranty, obviously this does no seem a concern for us.

To answer your question directly tho, nobody makes titanium mandrel bends, I did some extensive research a few years ago, the only ways you could do it is mandrel bend them yourself(100k for a machine decent enough to do tightradius bends for a manifold) or lobster back it, which is just crazy. It just isn't feasible, and may not last any longer than staino.

6BOOST

yeah i reckon you guys are on the right path, titan for all the hassle overs no benefit... by the time you get it the right thicknes to resist the stresses it would be not far off a steel one for wieght... and i agree that staino is shite for manifolds. i am trying to get the guys that do alot of the D1gp cars (ABE-san) to let me know what kind of material they are using but he wont say...

for the money the 6Boost ones are hard to look past. If i wasnt in such a hurry i would have got one off you guys as it would have been half the price i paid for ABE's creation but the manifold is beautiful and is warranted for life also.

[DCIEVE]

can we send you a china manifold which the car has already been designed for (exh and cooler piping etc) to replicate the turbo location?

[6BOOST]

Please don't turn this thread into being about me guys, I am more than happy to answer general questions and help out, as I genuinely believe there are great gains to be had with a well designed and built manifold, not just mine, however I don't want to disrespect those that pay to sponser the site, or the moderating team for letting me post as much specific information as I have already. If you have a specific question about MY product, do some research and find my number and call me, otherwise keep the questions to manifolds in general or pm some of the site sponsers who also do great manifolds.

Regards...........................Kyle

[Bass Junky]

Hi 6Boost,

Have you had one of your manifolds (low mount) used with a GCG highflow on a fairly standard road car RB25DETT?

OR

Have you had one of your manifolds fitted to a completely standard engine.

What have been the results?

This is for interests sake. Only if my current turbo blows would I upgrade but I'm curious what sort of results there are on dead stock cars.

Turbo of choice if my turbo blew would be a HKGGT2835ProS... Low mount.... Am I tempting fate?

Cheers

Pete

[Billet Ricky]

I have heard that full race manifolds are Sch 40 304 for the runners and Sch 40 316H for the collector.

I would've thought that stainless would have more resistance to scaling than steam pipe.

Yeah, once again you could get it coated.

Each to their own I guess.

That can't be true? Can anyone confirm?

I figured they must be made of 321H

Hi guys new member, love the site. I build gas turbines(jet engines) out of turbo chargers and currently in the process of doing an rb30/25 conversion in an r33. From all the research I have done over the years I can tell you that the thermal effeciency of steam pipe is greater than stainless steel. ie. heat is retained a lot better inside steam pipe tubing as compared to s/s. Heat is what makes the turbo spool and therefore it should in theory spool up faster(earlier) on a manifold made with steam pipe. Thats in theory...

There is a bit of info in this thread on manifold materials and properties (Click Here)

[Marko R1]

nick (warlord) - "dont worry about it rrre"