Fmic On Stock Application

[SKYPER]

Because heat soak from engine bay heat causes the engine to lose power

with a podfilter.

There's a dyno chart on the internet somewhere (I think was done in Australia)

showing the differences with bonnet up, down and with a coldairbox, etc.

Engine gains 8 rwkw with bonnet up but when bonnet is down, engine power

drops due to heat soak (hot air from radiator, etc).

Some say this only happens when car is stationary like on a dyno. When a

car is moving, alot of air is entering engine bay.The result is the engine bay

cools down and water temps drop, etc. Basically a dyno fan is not producing

enough air to properly simulate real world driving conditions.

I guess can understand why ECU tuners take cars for a drive after dyno

tune, so to check that the tune is correct for real world driving conditions.

Another interesting thing I have found is water can enter between bonnet,

fender and wet the podfilter (enter the intake piping, engine). With a cold

air box fed by a intake pipe, this can be reduced.

I can see why they put a airfilter in a airbox at factory, because it keeps

the incoming air away from engine bay heat and water cannot enter

intake piping, engine.

Edited January 6, 2008 by SKYPER

[gt-t_r34]

i'd be getting the intercooler from the reasons limpus said and also if u get the ecu u'll have to get it tuned b4 the fmic and after again i take it, soo just a waste of money.. and i do think the fmic makes the car a little laggier but it picks up more top end imo..

[SKYPER]

Adding a intercooler is going to lean out the A/F (Air/Fuel) ratio

which creates more heat in the cylinders on top of the intake,

exhaust mods that have already leaned out the A/F ratio and

created more heat.

Basically raising the boost level with intake, exhaust, intercooler,

leans out the A/F ratio and is why a engine produces more power.

The extra heat inside the cylinders is then transfered to the

water running through the engine block and oil that lubricates

the engine. Basically water and oil temps are going to rise.

This is not good if your cars engine shares water and

oil with turbo.

With ECU your adjusting how much fuel is injected thus

can help to stop the engine leaning out too much with

intake and exhaust mods. Basically helps to keep

cylinder temps under control.

Edited January 6, 2008 by SKYPER

[r33cruiser]

Adding an intercooler is going to lean out the A/F (Air/Fuel) ratio

which creates more heat in the cylinder on top of the intake and

exhaust mods that have already leaned out the A/F ratio.

Basically raising the boost level with intake, exhaust, intercooler,

leans out the A/F ratio and is why a engine produces more power.

dude are u serious?

stock ecu+mods= rich as a mother.

im pushing constant 11's A/F.

i hit R&R at 10psi

Edited January 6, 2008 by r33cruiser

[R31Nismoid]

Can i ask why people are anti POD filter? I have the HKS Spoung Air Filter with no Box... why would that be a bad thing?

Because they dont offer a performance gain at all.

Infact they can make the car slower

[limpus]

Adding an intercooler is going to lean out the A/F (Air/Fuel) ratio

which creates more heat in the cylinders on top of the intake,

exhaust mods that have already leaned out the A/F ratio and

created more heat.

Basically raising the boost level with intake, exhaust, intercooler,

leans out the A/F ratio and is why a engine produces more power.

The extra heat inside the cylinders is then transfered to the

water running through the engine block and oil that lubricates

the engine. Basically water and oil temps are going to rise.

Errrrrm....yeah right...as if a fmic is going to lean the AFRs out too much...

[Dingus]

When i got my car 2 years ago it already came with a catback...and the i actually went fmic before any other mods solely because its more of a support/safety mod before i went to any power mods...especially with the blistering summer temps now i think its a good idea...

This is a good idea and one reason why I was considering getting a FMIC, but then you have to remember that it would block some flow to the radiator = higher water temps, which is never a good thing in the middle of summer. Personally I'd just go the r34 cooler if you just want to keep the intake temps lower during the summer heat.

[SKYPER]

dude are u serious?

stock ecu+mods= rich as a mother.

im pushing constant 11's A/F.

i hit R&R at 10psi

It seems the stock ECU on your car has switched to the low octane fuel, ignition maps.

Edited January 7, 2008 by SKYPER

[eddieeeee-ro]

i thought if u wanted to run 11-12psi on the standard turbo you would need to upgrade the intercooler anyway?

having said that you'd prob want an ecu @ this boost level.

so fmic+ecu = ftw

[SKYPER]

If at 100% throttle constantly like on a racetrack, then yes you

need a front mount intercooler. Also a steel wheel turbo upgrade.

On the road, supposedly can get away with 20 second burst's with

stock sidemount intercooler on a R33. A sightly larger R34GTT

sidemount intercooler that's installed in a R32 GTS -T is said

to be ok for couple of laps on a racetrack.

I read that 13.5psi is the max boost for R32 intercooler. Isn't

a coincidence that max boost on the stock R32, R33 boost gauge

translates to roughly the same 13.5psi?? R34 GTT stock boost

gauge roughly translates to around 14psi.

Stock R32 GTS-T intercooler has been proven to be capable of around

211.3rwkw on a dyno at I think was 9.33psi with a RB25DET conversion

in a R32 GTS-T.

Here's the dynochart -

http://img512.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc0725xw5.jpg

Also add a bigger fuelpump to the ECU, intercooler upgrades.

Edited January 6, 2008 by SKYPER

[Cjmartz2k]

Not trying to be an ass dude, but are you just making this stuff up as you go?

[Dan_J]

FMIC is there to stop detonation when running more psi + add more cooler air then a stock unit can cool

but a intercooler does add more power by it self....... compared to not running one at all, all those jap turbo cars that dont run intercoolers, kei cars, dihastu charade etc. air coming in would be warmer then a intercooled engine, warmer air means theres less air getting to the engine, as warm air expands, then when the air is colder.

thus more air = more power

[Cjmartz2k]

Geez Dan_J, my head is starting to hurt.

The above statement is completly wrong. Your proof is Kei cars and Dihastu's are slow (because they don't have intercoolers)?!?! It might also have to do with the fact that the are 3 bangers with turbos about the size of your fist that run .4 bar and aren't made for performance.

I think you guys are confusing whether or not intercoolers work period compared to if the make more power by just slapping a bigger one on a car when it already had a smaller one. On a stock car where you are not already overwhelming the SMIC, THE AIR WILL NOT BE ANY COLDER, IT WILL JUST TAKE IT LONGER TO NOT COOL THE AIR AS EFFICIENTLY!! (takes longer to heatsoak, and you can almost instantly heat soak a factory SMIC with 400+hp).

Now here is one theoretical that might half way support your notion. You have a pretty stock (bolt on) car that you are already running .9 bar on which is heating the air up pretty good through that stock turbo (already tuned). You can add a FMIC and IF YOU RETUNE IT to take advantage of the fact that you can now run more timing, you could gain a few ponies.

Also, saying x amount of boost can be supported by x intercooler is dumb. As with the same misconception about how much a stock headgasket can take, it has to do with hp, not boost, and also where you are in the turbo's efficiency map. A stock RB20 turbo @ 1.2 bar is doing nothing but pushing hot air. Even if it wouldn't blow up, you won't gain anything. Now a T88 @ .8 bar makes (I'm guessing) over 600hp. Do you think a SMIC would support that? No way. Also, could a SMIC even flow enough air with out being a HUGE restriction to make 600hp? No way.

[Dan_J]

wasnt talking about slow...just a tiny bit more power due 2 a cooler.....

[SKYPER]

My comments are from other peoples experiences, experiments, comments on stock intercooler,

etc and from my own reasearch into stock and upgraded intercoolers, etc and their

applications.

Edited January 6, 2008 by SKYPER

[Cjmartz2k]

I understand, but also recognize people repeat what they here on the internet a lot as fact, which gets repeated over and over until it is taken as fact.

[Peter]

Hmmm.....

I went from an Apexi Pod Filter (CAI with heat shield) and full 3 inch exhaust, and then solely added a GReddy V-Spec FMIC with no furthering mods - lag seemed less, and car "felt" like it pulled alot harder (running standard boost). No stats to back it up, just the feeling after driving the car for four years prior....??

Maybe it's the fact I have a large shiny thing hanging down the front now??

Edited January 6, 2008 by Peter

[Alex_r33s2gts25t]

If your not planning on upgrading the turbo, get the R34 GTT SMIC. It is bigger and rated to handle more power and it bolts into the same position as your present one, so you will be able to install it yourself. Saves the hassle of trying to fit and mount a FMIC and $$$$. If u want more info on installing the R34 SMIC pm me, or there may already be a post of how to do the upgrade. Its rated for like 200+ rwkw so unless your gunna upgrade ur turbo you dont need a FM. Cheaper to buy and relativley easy to install...

[limpus]

My comments are from other peoples experiences, experiments, comments on stock intercooler,

etc and from my own reasearch into stock and upgraded intercoolers, etc and their

applications.

Well...in your research have you tried it for yourself? an fmic does add more power if not for the fact that the charge air is cooler and denser then also because it flows better than the restrictve stock smic...

Even on a stockish car there would be a slight increase in performace with the addition of just an fmic...and without even touching the boost...

On a side note...alex r33s2gts25t...i could be wrong but doesn't a r34 smic need some modifications to the inlet/outlets for it to fit? I remember reading somewhere that it was the case with fitting to r32s but it might not be the case for r33s...

Edited January 7, 2008 by limpus

[Alex_r33s2gts25t]

On a side note...alex r33s2gts25t...i could be wrong but doesn't a r34 smic need some modifications to the inlet/outlets for it to fit? I remember reading somewhere that it was the case with fitting to r32s but it might not be the case for r33s...

Nah on the R33 the bolts line up perfectly... the hardest part is getting the front bumper off lol... the only thing that becomes a tight fit after u put the r34 one on is the wheel guard... but its flexible nd plastic.. so i just cable tied it back to its original holes at the base of the bumper because they wouldnt quite reach... its pretty much just a swap job