Gym And Supplement Discussion

[topher_]

I saw it on gay porn once and decided it was the right thing for me

[IOWNU]

But you have to have some muscles on you before you can cut down to it.

quickest way to gain muscles?

eat lots of food and do compound movements with heavy weights.

no swiss balls, balanced boards or DB's required

Agree 100%.

Squats, Deadlifts, Bench Press, Military Press, Bent over rows, Dips and Chin-ups with the occasional set of barbell curls is all i do. Might be a few more, but

those are the key exercises.

My weight varies from 88-100kgs, from 13-20% bodyfat.

A few people on this forum know me personally and can vouch for how I look lol

Pretty sure I've posted pics here before too....might have been NS.com though (which I haven't been on in agesss)

[Birds]

every guy wants to be stronger than the next.

Hmmm not all of them. Many, and I would say most people weight training at the gym just want to look better (usually that includes being bigger, but not always) than the next guy...being that muscular builds are a plus with pleasing the opposite sex and visually warding off those who threaten one's security. Well that's their initial entry into exercise anyway. It is a small minority of people who have a proper need/use for the strength in everyday life and get into weight training for that reason. Hence why core strength exercises are ignored by most. We naturally draw a correlation between size and strength even if we acknowledge this correlation isn't always applicable, because most of the time it is. Lots of people want to be stronger simply because more strength is a performance indicator of physical results achieved...in conjunction with what the mirror has to offer, i.e. "I'm stronger than I used to be so I must have put on muscle".

What do you use your strength for?

[TTT]

I use my strength to get stronger.

seen your pics on NS Ali.

The point of the article I posted was that a skinny guy gained 55lbs (roughly 22kg) by eating alot of calories and doing basic movements 3 times a week.

none of those movements involved DIRECT bicep work, tricep work, calf work, forearm work, abs work, and general isolation crap.

Article goes on to say that 31lbs of that weight gain was lean muscle mass.

the 2 pics show that he still looks lean because he was truly a skinny kid.

All in 11 weeks.

If he had eaten the same amount of calories and went to the gym and did what most beginners do and pick up an EZ bar and do curls and leg presses, he would not have made anywhere near the same muscle gain.

alot more fat.

He was a true novice and 20 years old so it was the perfect scenario for big gains.

not only did he get stronger, he got bigger.

Someone on this thread mentioned wishing he was fat to begin with because he can't gain weight.

but listed 2 or 3 supplements they were taking.

were they eating 6000 calories a day including a 4 litres of milk?

were they doing the basic compound movements?

or where they doing 3 types of bicep curls and leg ext with 3 second holds in the locked position?

In reality though, no 18-22 year old carnt is going to listen to anyone giving advice that says "do squats, deads and bench and eat heaps and you'll get big and strong"

they'll read it and go "pfftt.. this dickhead didn't even mention alternate DB curls while lying face down on an incline bench.. why would I listen to him"

each to their own.

[topher_]

I use my strength to get stronger.

seen your pics on NS Ali.

The point of the article I posted was that a skinny guy gained 55lbs (roughly 22kg) by eating alot of calories and doing basic movements 3 times a week.

none of those movements involved DIRECT bicep work, tricep work, calf work, forearm work, abs work, and general isolation crap.

Article goes on to say that 31lbs of that weight gain was lean muscle mass.

the 2 pics show that he still looks lean because he was truly a skinny kid.

All in 11 weeks.

If he had eaten the same amount of calories and went to the gym and did what most beginners do and pick up an EZ bar and do curls and leg presses, he would not have made anywhere near the same muscle gain.

alot more fat.

He was a true novice and 20 years old so it was the perfect scenario for big gains.

not only did he get stronger, he got bigger.

Someone on this thread mentioned wishing he was fat to begin with because he can't gain weight.

but listed 2 or 3 supplements they were taking.

were they eating 6000 calories a day including a 4 litres of milk?

were they doing the basic compound movements?

or where they doing 3 types of bicep curls and leg ext with 3 second holds in the locked position?

In reality though, no 18-22 year old carnt is going to listen to anyone giving advice that says "do squats, deads and bench and eat heaps and you'll get big and strong"

they'll read it and go "pfftt.. this dickhead didn't even mention alternate DB curls while lying face down on an incline bench.. why would I listen to him"

each to their own.

You seem to think that everyone is either doing one or the other and nobody is doing both. I do lots of deads, squats, bent over rows, eat a shit load of calories (probably too much) and i also do "DIRECT bicep work, tricep work, calf work, forearm work, abs work, and general isolation crap"

[DivHunter]

Is wanking compound or isolation?

[topher_]

compound

[rev210]

In reality though, no 18-22 year old carnt is going to listen to anyone giving advice that says "do squats, deads and bench and eat heaps and you'll get big and strong"

they'll read it and go "pfftt.. this dickhead didn't even mention alternate DB curls while lying face down on an incline bench.. why would I listen to him"

each to their own.

This is true. The younger set are usually inspired by thier hero's and just want to emulate them, rather than understanding or questioning the facts that sit behind why their muscles develop. I think this is still a good thing despite it having pitfalls, as they still usually get the 'novice' effect from it and it gets them interested and sometimes committed to a healthy body. On the down side it can also take you down the path of body dismorphic syndrome. Something that is on the increase amongst young trainers.Being focused on what you look like in the gym is the stepping stone to this disorder as 'what you look like' is a very subjective thing.

The article you put up is quite good at explaining 'why' things happen in basic detail. It's a tad wordy but, no where near as bad as the sports science stuff I had to wade through a few years back. The guy in the article has clearly gone through an impressive change to his physique in the short time of his training.

To bascially summarise the article, when you are trying to get bigger muscles, you must convince your body that you need more muscle and assist it to grow them.

The body grows more muscle to cope with greater forces than it was in a state to cope with originally. So in order to become bigger you will become stronger by this. The full equation alluded to in the article involves more than most realise including diet, rest ,bone and nervous system development.

My own volume of training may seem low to some but, if you realise how much trauma is caused in the lifts due to the forces. How much food and rest it 'costs' to repair and even grow extra muscle. Not to mention the total system shock it causes to the body.

You see the gym for what it is, a place of controlled destruction.

Your home ,with it's comfortable bed and fridge, is the place of controlled rebuilding and contruction.

Emotionally, being at home after a workout 'should' make you feel far better than being in the Gym. That is afterall where all the 'body building' is occuring. As you have said GTST, this is also where diet and rest are such a huge factor in limiting your potential.

[bozodos]

I should have a left arm like Popeye then ^_~

[rev210]

I should have a left arm like Popeye then ^_~

The jerk and clean.

[IOWNU]

You seem to think that everyone is either doing one or the other and nobody is doing both. I do lots of deads, squats, bent over rows, eat a shit load of calories (probably too much) and i also do "DIRECT bicep work, tricep work, calf work, forearm work, abs work, and general isolation crap"

There is no problem in doing isolation work, if you do it sometimes for say a pump (which is what i do lol) or if you are an advanced lifter

whereby you need the isolation exercises to polish off your body (nobody here is at that level unless they are heavyweight competitive bodybuilder).

The problem is, too many people focus on the isolation exercises and don't know how to squat properly, or deadlift.

Its just bench, dumbbells, repeat. You aren't going to get huge on a isolation routine. At least this is what I see on a day to day basis. Anyone that knows what they are doing gets the comment

"oh i could look like that too if I was on the juice."

By and large, the fitness industry in Australia is a joke. The gyms are a joke. The supps are a joke. The trainers (most of them) are a joke. One great big joke. lol.

[DivHunter]

A funny joke?

[IOWNU]

Funny and sad at the same time. Funny because it shows how people are gullible. But I get upset when I see a 50kg 18 year old in the gym with a gym instructor telling them to do 5 sets of bicep curls for 8 to 12 reps for growth in the arms and not to squat/deadlift because it can damage your back.

[Birds]

You use your strength to be stronger? Why do you want to be stronger though? What part of life is it going to be used in? I'm just curious. I think there's more useful benefit in the modern day to looking the part as opposed to having so called "useful" muscle. I mean, we're not all lugging boulders anymore and martial arts has been proven time and time again to be more effective in a fight than strength. I think you look at these guys and get a hate on for what they are doing simply because they are doing something different to you and have different goals for their exercise.

I'm with topher...not everyone is swayed towards either one. I do a combination of compound and isolation exercises too. Personally I'm not a fan of the bodyshape that a completely compound workout gives people...I've seen it, my friends have it...do not want. Combination of the two gives some very nice balanced results: mass combined with attractive toned muscle. There's plenty of crossover between the two as well, because doing isolation exercises on core strength muscles like abs will help you with a few compound exercises. Someone a while back said lat pulldown wasn't a compound exercise...that's a complete load of shit.

Multiple sets are great for breaking down muscle...it is something that has to be done over time. Properly training them to rebuild in response to the resistance requires a reasonably frequent constant resistance, not a sporadic occurrence once a month. You can't break them down in a single fail set or 1 minutes of lifting per month because in 20 minutes time you'll be able to do the same thing again. Any gains you see are most likely natural muscle and weight. And how ignorant the whole world is spending their hours and hours at the gym I think alot of you minimum sets / maximum weight people would struggle to get through anything that requires stamina. Overtraining is a bullshit term that's overused by people who can't be bothered spending time at the gym. Real overtraining isn't doing too many sets at the gym to break down the muscles, it's not giving the muscles any decent recovery time.

Funny and sad at the same time. Funny because it shows how people are gullible. But I get upset when I see a 50kg 18 year old in the gym with a gym instructor telling them to do 5 sets of bicep curls for 8 to 12 reps for growth in the arms and not to squat/deadlift because it can damage your back.

What's wrong with that? Kid just wants bigger arms and that will get him that, quite safely too. All I did when I was 15 was dumbell curls at home and my arms blew up using this isolation exercise. If not done properly squats and deadlifts can damage your back. I do tons of freeweight compound exercises; they're my favourite...but any mates at the gym who have been out on injury are no coincidence the freeweight fans. And don't say it's because they don't know how to do the exercise, because professional powerlifters injure themselves from time to time...and more frequently than body builders I might add. We're not perfect beings, we all stuff up once in a while. The difference being that machines and isolation exercises are safer because there are less variables to it...that's why they're trained to instruct clients using them. If I was a personal trainer looking to keep his job and his clients that's where I'd be heading too.

[TTT]

topher has posted his pic.

if it's him, he's obviously solid and knows what to do.

problem is exactly what you said.. Fitness First and the likes.

and what they represent.

my gym is nothing like that.

I'd go as far as to say that my gym is better than most peoples.

[TTT]

Birds - there is so much wrong with what you are saying that I'm not even going to bother arguing.

[Birds]

Terrific response there chap, I can do that too, watch:

GTST there is so much wrong with what you are saying that I'm not even going to bother arguing. Doesn't really have much weighting though does it?

Reality: you came into this thread dick swinging and spouting some nazi bullshit about there only being one proper way to workout at the gym based on us all having the same goal, for whatever reason, and that everyone who doesn't practice what you do is ignorant.

[topher_]

yeah that is a pic of me.. this was me before training about 15-16 months ago second from left.

I get all my info from people who have had many years experience training such as my old man who used to compete in the early 90's and my uncle who has been training for 18+ years and still training. No offence to anyone but i don't really like getting info from internet bb's like on bb.com because all they really do is just sprout shit they read on another forum. That's not to say i don't take any info off the net, there is a wealth of knowledge if you look in the right places.

I guess i was lucky having them two growing up because they always used to drill into me how important it was to squat and dead lift so it is just natural for me to do it i guess. However they are both a fan of DB kick backs which got bagged before, i never used to do them but my uncle used to make me do it because he claimed it's gives you a good horseshoe (which is starting to come out good for me now).

But yeah end of the day everyone is entitled to their own opinion and just because they aren't doing what you are doesn't make them wrong. everybody is different and different things work for different people but the main thing people don't seem to understand is that no matter how hard you lift in the gym you won't grow unless you eat enough. There is a guy who is a personal trainer at my work and laughed at me when i told him how many calories i eat and said you don't need to eat alot to grow. how are you supposed to grow when calories burnt are more then calories in? In all honesty i probably eat a bit too much and have put on a bit more bf % then i should have but i don't care because i am just making sure i am getting enough food into me to grow and i'm gonna lose the fat when i cut anyway so why risk putting myself short in the growth department? There are a few people who like to give me shit and try and call me a fat flamin mongrel with no idea but these are the same people who ahve been going gym for a few years and made no progress at all, all they need to do is look at off season BB's and see how much fat they carry to realise that they infact are the idiots with no idea -_-

Edited January 8, 2010 by topher_

[Flynnn]

IOWNU and GTST

c'mon boys show us the guns, im curious to see how you fellas look like

Edited January 8, 2010 by Barbarian

[Flynnn]

on.. and perfect training tune