Gym And Supplement Discussion

[IOWNU]

Anybody else get to see Markus Ruhl at Supplement warehouse today ?

Guy is freakin massive in person

lol because he isn't massive in pics/vids?

Nah I get what you are saying, you get used to seeing such people on the net etc, but when you see them in real life,

it is just amazing how big they actually are.

Get Bigger or Die Tryin Boys. Tis winter. Tis the season to be massive and jolly.

[God_speed]

What about figure 8 lifting straps? I've never used them but I believe they take a lot of the load off your wrists and forearms.

Yep straps are good...

Hard to suggest suitable exercises without knowing what motions put strain on the wrist. During which exercises does he feel the most pain?

When the wrist is bending or when it is static? With vertical weight on the joint, e.g. shoulder press, or horizontal weight, e.g. bicep curl?

Thanks fellas. Hand straps are a good idea, I've got some I can lend him. From what he's told me, pushing action (like a dumbell bench press) is sort of okay up until the point where the weights reach near the top and the wrist(s) have to bend. Even the pulling action (as in working the back) can put a strain on it. Obviously the safe option would just be to lay off it completely but as we all know that's pretty hard when the longest break you've had away from the gym is about 2 weeks, for the past 10 years-plus.

On a separate note, I guess there are a couple of good things about the cold weather, 1) time to start bulking again 2) GTR feels punchier with the cold air

[Birds]

It's so hard to take time off from the gym but sometimes doing an exercise the shit way because of pain/strain is much worse because you end up doing nothing for your muscles, then you end up taking the time off anyway when the injury is more serious. Any gym junkie knows the withdrawals of not going to the gym but you should convince him to find something else to do in the mean time (e.g. focus on legs) and remind him that when he does eventually come back it'll be a matter of days before he gets right back to where he was again.

When I'm injured, as rare as that is, and can't do upper body gym work I get heavy into the running and leg work. Make a good thing out of a bad situation I say.

Has he looked at surgery? When he does get back into it he might want to take a look at the exercises he is doing and gauge what is responsible for bringing back the old injury. I injured my wrist pretty badly a few years back and that was because of upright rowing (specifically, holding the bar too close in the middle + 60kg rows). Time off was more painful than the wrist itself but when I came back I was so much better for it. Still don't do uprights to this day though, I'm scared straight of it...

[God_speed]

Thanks Birds , it's true, forcing your way through it will probably just worsen the damage and lengthen the recovery time even more.

He's actually a PT himself so he should be able to come up with some good alternatives for himself, but I thought I'd ask around and get him some ideas anyway - and I got some

Speaking to him today it sounds like an xray showed two bones in the wrist that are supposed to be kept together by a ligament (like a rubber band) are split apart and that's what's causing the pain. I think surgery is looking likely...

My wrists often piss me off and I find they're a weak point when I'm lifting dumbells and they'll sometimes give me a bit of a 'click' or I'll get a bit of pain but it's only momentary. Even so I'm wary of stuffing them up when doing a heavy session

I know what you mean with the narrow grip exercises; upright rows or narrow push-ups / smith machine bench presses can set off those wrists.

[Birds]

It's funny actually, some people believe you should do "some" exercise (albeit minimal weight) to keep the joints mobile as part of the healing process, others believe you should 100% lay off it...guess it depends on the type of injury. Those WorkCover ads always stressed that you shouldn't take back pain "lying down" although I can't remember if this referred to getting off your ass and sewing your workplace or actually remaining mobile lol.

Oh dear...well atleast you've narrowed the problem (hopefully), some people aren't so lucky. Doesn't sound like a difficult fix in terms of surgery standards. Best of luck for him.

One thing I do now which works well for me (I'll add here that some people are totally against stretching, and yes I've seen the research blah blah blah get f***ed), is to wind the wrists around a bit in figure 8 motions before exercise just to loosen the joints up so everything is in a reset position. Get some of the clicks out the way with no weight on them rather than having them go crack while moving alot of weight. Stretching is also a good diagnosis tool, as you can use it to scan for injuries you may not be aware of before you go and put the significant pressure on them.

Yep exactly, I try to keep elbows in a 90 degree starting position for any exercise just to avoid strain on wrists but with some exercises it's unavoidable.

[NZM.031]

stretching FTMFW... always stretch... when you lift... you hurt your muscles... they get bigger and stronger... but also tighter... dont leave it too late to start stretching... the bigger your range of movement.. the more muscles you can work.. and the bigger and more ripped you can get..

ross enamit says that you're only as strong as your weakest muscle.. and in a working situation... aka. punching it doesnt matter how much force you can punch with from your chest and back and shoulders if your wrist cant transfer it...

a suggestion is to use lighter weight that your wrists can handle... build up proper form, and focus on the shaking of your hands... dont think about the actual lift, you dont have to.. its light weight.. but focus on keeping your hands from shaking and do more reps than normal...

i like to do dumbbell bench holding one weight up, while you do 15 reps with the other hand... then swap hands... i concentrate on keeping the hand up and steady more than the other hand lifting the weight... after a few months doing this... you'll be right to get back on the big dumbell weights.

another thing is doing ez bar curls, with a weight that you cant wrist curl... but is easy to bicep curl... and hold your wrists in one position throughout the curl... lock them in and dont relax them... you'll soon feel the burn in your forearms... when you get to that point, hold the curl at 90 degrees for as long as you can.. your forearms should start to grow fairly rapidly..

or... go swimming with those funky paddle things.. they are great for wrist strength.

kettle bell moves are great for wrist strength aswell... as they flop around and stuff...

and so are ab rollers... gotta keep your wrists locked in throughout the whole movement.

im not saying stop lifting altogther or anything... just add these moves into your workout... or replace a weak wrist move with something like this.

i will always use free weights than a machine... for this reason... it builds up your support muscles... you need more core and more stability muscles when using free weights.. and that counts more in a working situation than a big pair of biceps... preacher bench FTL.... unless you need to pull things towards your face real quick and real hard.. hahahaha.

cheers

Linton

[God_speed]

Yeah Birds I'll always stretch at least my chest before any lifting and usually get little 'pops' out of my back when I do...

Good advice Linton. I suppose most intermediate lifters will be using free weights at that level to maximise impact. I still see advanced lifters use machines sometimes either to change things up or because they've also got an injury of some description - it's amazing how many blokes have had some sort of back injury or weakness in the spine of some sort, shoulder injury, etc etc.

[Birds]

There is a point you get to where your muscles can go further than your joints - as has been said you're only as strong as the weakest part of your body. When lifting past this point, even doing an exercise strictly you can expect joint injury to occur. This is where genetics and upbringing really come into play, because you can't change bone structure or hard tissue size with willpower like you can with muscles.

I have a naturally thin frame (was probably the skinniest kid in the whole of year 7) - consequently I'll never be able to reach levels that others with average or larger bone structures can without doing serious damage to my joints.

[Bunta]

Hey guys, I am back into working out after about 10 years off, last time my training was a part of my rugby training and it was all supervised by coaches ect so i never really learned anything, just did what they said, so i have a really noobish question. But first the back ground.

I started doing the sets of exercises that my trainer gave me, and like you expect over time it got easier and easier, so i started upping the weight and doing a few more reps ect, about 3 weeks in i noticed instead of getting easier each time some of the exercises started getting harder at the same weight, while others continued to get easier and easier, with shoulder presses in particular it feels like i am geting weaker and weaker each time, not stronger like i should be! Any ideas as to why? Is there somthing i should be eating or some other thing i should be doing?

Cheers in advance for the help.

[Birds]

Shoulders are one of the more difficult muscles to build up, so if you are doing military press it is to be expected. You will plateau very quickly with this exercise and it can be long intervals between stepping up. Also note that the delts are used in many upper body exercises. Where you'll feel weaker is when you have done another exercise that has used the delts and then you go to do shoulder press only to find out you're out of steam. Shoulder press is also very tricep intensive depending where you hold the grip, so if you've done any pushing type exercises or tricep exercises this will certainly impact your performance in shoulder press.

Other than that, you might just be having off days where you haven't consumed enough energy or had enough sleep.

A good solution is to take a look at your exercise program as a whole and split it up so that your exercises aren't clashing with each other too badly. It's almost impossible to erase all overlap of muscle groups but you can get a pretty good divide that will ensure you muscles adequate rest between days.

[God_speed]

One of the first things that came to mind was managing the weights and exercises you're doing. Assuming one is at least at an intermediate stage of weightlifting, every 4-6 weeks or so I believe you need to change the routine up to 'keep your body guessing' as the muscles will adapt to the routine you're currently doing (that would explain exercises getting easier, or plateaued growth). The other thing is that within a given week, you can try hitting one muscle group hard with heavier weights but lower reps> followed by a more moderate weight and more reps later in the week.

Make sure you concentrate on your breathing and good form while you're lifting; reps should be done slowly while you concentrate on 'feeling' the weight and the requisite muscle fibres being recruited.

Nutrition is definitely a key factor; working in a desk job means I sometimes won't have the opportunity to eat right during the day, but I've found that ensuring I have a proper meal of complex carbs (e.g. oats) 60-90min pre-workout followed by a mixture of more simple carbs and protein (e.g. protein shake with carb included) about 30min pre-workout helps a ton as far as energy levels are concerned.

Three key imperatives for anyone training I believe are: Adequate sleep (includes laying off things that affect sleep if required like the booze or caffeine), nutrition (includes drinking loads of water to stay hydrated throughout the day, veggies which provide fibre and slow the absorption of carbs meaning energy levels remain more consistent + they also have vitamins of course; protein intake 1 gram per pound of bodyweight - both pre-workout and post-workout recovery meals are crucial), and consistency in training (not sure what your schedule is but two days a week of weights aren't really enough, probably need at least 4, maybe 3 days a week to see fresh results; but ease into it if you haven't trained for a long time). Part of that 'consistency' is good form, and also making each workout count. Even if you're feeling flat, GO to the gym and maybe lift lighter, try doing negative sets or a drop set to still maximise muscle failure even with lighter weight.

HTH.

Are you still in contact with your trainer? What's he said about it?

[Birds]

Also agree with this^

[God_speed]

Shoulders are one of the more difficult muscles to build up, so if you are doing military press it is to be expected.

Birds' advice also made me think of another thing; the shoulders are a fairly small muscle group anyway, so are more likely to be fatigued sooner and as Birds said they will come into play in other exercises. Avoid over-working them and use them as an "in-between" group to slot between your more "major muscle group" days, e.g. Monday = Chest, Wednesday = Back; Tuesday can be shoulders and some cardio. IMO You don't need to use a heavy weight for the shoulders due to their size unless you're a pro and want to focus on them specifically. Just enough to feel the burn.

For me, I've come from a bit of a history of overtraining the chest and undertraining the back, this has lead to overworked front delts and underworked rear ones (and subsequently I had a bit of a neanderthal-look ); so I focus more on rear-delt exercises to try and bring about a balance. But if you're just starting out again, I'd focus on more of your core muscle groups and place less emphasis on the smaller-mass groups.

My 0.02

[Birds]

That's funny Matt because I did the opposite - swam alot as a kid and consequently when I hit the gym lat exercises were my favourite. Now I'm trying to build up a chest to match the wide lats lol. I'm better now but I was looking like a gorilla for a while lol.

A good example of not needing much weight - I military press (behind neck) 6x10 reps using a 45kg barbell and my delts have grown fairly large from this, noticeably bigger than the biceps. I've been doing this weight for quite some time because it's very easy to plateau with this exercise. You really don't need much isolation weight to build them up and you will plateau quick because they are a small muscle group that gets used in many exercises anyway. Be careful with military press, it's a very lower back intensive exercise - always do with slightly bent knees and should have one foot out in front of the other.

And yeah, work on core muscles until you get to a size you want, then incorporate some isolation exercises.

[Bunta]

Thanks guys that was really helpful I have not talked to my trainer about it yet but i will have to soon. Im not on to free weights yet im still just doing the machines

I do Chest press, Shoulder press, Seated rows, Leg Press, Squats, Tricep pull downs and leg curls, followed by some crunches, i do this 3 times a week and do cardio 2 times a week. anything else i should think about? Im just doing it to be a bit healthier and lose some weight, have had a history of heart trouble in my family so i didnt want to join them!

[God_speed]

Birds you must've looked like a king cobra!

45kg is a great effort for military press. I think I'd need the smith to do that cos as you say it requires good lower back and core strength to perform it safely and properly and I'm still working on that. Because of my imbalance it has lead to some stiff neck / tight traps / tight shoulders. Lifting anything vertically above head height is not a strong point of mine. Fortunately I've recognised it relatively early and am fixing it before I get real shoulder joint problems or worse...

Thanks guys that was really helpful I have not talked to my trainer about it yet but i will have to soon. Im not on to free weights yet im still just doing the machines

I do Chest press, Shoulder press, Seated rows, Leg Press, Squats, Tricep pull downs and leg curls, followed by some crunches, i do this 3 times a week and do cardio 2 times a week. anything else i should think about? Im just doing it to be a bit healthier and lose some weight, have had a history of heart trouble in my family so i didnt want to join them!

No worries mate, without knowing your current physique and training history and more details about your goals, it can be a little hard to recommend stuff... But are you saying you do all those things in one session??

[Bunta]

No worries mate, without knowing your current physique and training history and more details about your goals, it can be a little hard to recommend stuff... But are you saying you do all those things in one session??

Yeah all in one session, at the moment its pretty low weight and 3 sets of 10 to 12 reps takes about an hour to do. Current physique is 6ft1, 94kg and 26% body fat looking to drop the body fat around 10% and i would be happy, so thats the main goal at this stage. Past training history is pretty much non existant, its been so many years that im guessing it probably counts as none lol

[Birds]

Birds you must've looked like a king cobra!

45kg is a great effort for military press. I think I'd need the smith to do that cos as you say it requires good lower back and core strength to perform it safely and properly and I'm still working on that. Because of my imbalance it has lead to some stiff neck / tight traps / tight shoulders. Lifting anything vertically above head height is not a strong point of mine. Fortunately I've recognised it relatively early and am fixing it before I get real shoulder joint problems or worse...

LOL king cobra that's hilarious. If I could go back I'd have gotten an early start on bench press while I was still young to balance it out.

Yer not to downplay 45kg as it took me some time to get to that, but for gym newbies it just doesn't sound like much when you compare it to core exercises like bench press, lateral exercises etc. further emphasising our point that isolation exercises don't need much weight particularly if it's a small muscle group.

Yeah all in one session, at the moment its pretty low weight and 3 sets of 10 to 12 reps takes about an hour to do. Current physique is 6ft1, 94kg and 26% body fat looking to drop the body fat around 10% and i would be happy, so thats the main goal at this stage. Past training history is pretty much non existant, its been so many years that im guessing it probably counts as none lol

Best thing you can do to lose that body fat is a combination of boxing and running. The gym will help to shape your body and build muscle beneath the fat, but if you want to lose that weight hit the cardio IMO.

[Bunta]

Best thing you can do to lose that body fat is a combination of boxing and running. The gym will help to shape your body and build muscle beneath the fat, but if you want to lose that weight hit the cardio IMO.

Yeah thats what i thought, the trainer said somthing along the lines of having more muscle mass raises your base metabolic rate making it easier to lose weight or somthing, I think i might swap my schedule and do weights twice in a week and cardio 3 times. I want to get back to rugby next years so fitness is probably more important, as strenght never really was an issue when i used to play anyway.

[Birds]

It's true it will raise your base metabolic rate because you burn through alot of energy when lifting and it will lose you some weight. Cardio is what really burns through the fat though. Combination of both will serve you well. Cardio also helps you to get through your workout easier and vice versa.

Both rugby and AFL players seem to put more emphasis on athleticism than brute strength these days.