Gym And Supplement Discussion

[83CKS]

I don't think you realise it's not that bigger deal until you actually stop drinking for a while to be honest. What I found amazing is when I went out to Pubs etc for parties people would look at me really weird when I said I wasn't drinking, like there was something wrong with me and drinking was the normal, not vice versa. Made me realise just how much of a drinking culture we actually live in.

Sooo true!

Im not much of a drinker either.. And always get weird looks when i say im not drinking..

It just seems to make feel sick or wanna go to sleep these days..

Plus I'd rather be able to drive incase something happens, i love feeling great the next day and not hung over, full of sugar and feeling like shit..

[Birds]

I think the advice to stick to big compounds is given assuming a young male wants to get bigger, leaner, stronger and so on. All you need to do is tweak your diet. I'd say 90% of guys who train want to get bigger and leaner. Those who say they are happy to stay lean and small, lie, they want to get bigger. Those who say they are happy bulky and big, lie, they want to get leaner. Those in the middle are rapt lol. Obviously if you want to be a marathon runner or a swimmer, muscle mass isn't a big factor, then your training would deviate from standard bodybuilding and powerlifting compound movement techniques.

Correct, although we're still assuming a bit here - cause the perfect size is another subjective thing. As gym junkies we all know we'll never be 100% satisfied with our bodies, rightfully so...and it can be a good thing motivation wise...but people like me reach a point where we are within range of that and can spot a guy we think is simply too big to be attractive anymore. I reckon alot of body builders and lifters get obsessed to the point where bigger/stronger is still not big/strong enough - this isn't helped by the fact they'll run into someone bigger/stronger than them and it will make them look small in the mirror or weak on the weight stack.

Exactly, that was my assumption... but yeah a marathon runners workout is different from a sprinter.

Correct! Now we're getting somewhere...assumptions = evil.

im happy with the development of my hammys... im happy with the thickness and width of my hammys... but my quads are lacking.. especially in the width part.. and mainly the inner part... so ive been thinking of doing front squats, but the weight that i can squat.. my chest and arms cannot hold.. it sits on my collarbone and feels uncomfortable, but with the weight that i can hold, id have to do a gazillion reps to feel that illustrious burn we all strive to achieve..

thoughts?? any other leg moves you guys have found that use your quads more than the hammys.. pure freeweight workout, no machines.

I would recommend doing 45 degree leg press. It's not completely freeweight, but really...it's still going to give you bigger quads than if you limit your squats to a certain weight because it bothers your collarbone. If you're still adamant about freeweights, maybe get a cushion pad for the barbell to reduce the stress or try squats with dumbells in each hand side by side.

I don't think you realise it's not that bigger deal until you actually stop drinking for a while to be honest. What I found amazing is when I went out to Pubs etc for parties people would look at me really weird when I said I wasn't drinking, like there was something wrong with me and drinking was the normal, not vice versa. Made me realise just how much of a drinking culture we actually live in.

Yep, I get called soft all the time for not drinking every weekend. I don't see how it affects other people's night whether I drink or not. And it's not like I'm one of those people who sits in the corner bagging all the people who drink, I actually participate in the fun and enjoy myself as much (just on a different level) when I don't drink as when I do.

Bartender in a country town hotel asked me where my skirt was when I ordered a coke because I was designated driver for the night...they tend to withdraw the statement when you ask them if they'd like to try the other test of manliness as opposed to alcohol

[adznight]

I would recommend doing 45 degree leg press. It's not completely freeweight, but really...it's still going to give you bigger quads than if you limit your squats to a certain weight because it bothers your collarbone. If you're still adamant about freeweights, maybe get a cushion pad for the barbell to reduce the stress or try squats with dumbells in each hand side by side.

45 leg press is an tricky one huh seeing it works Glutes, Hamstrings and Quadriceps. I find it's all about foot position and transfer of power through the ball or heel of the foot depending on what you're looking for. You deeper you go the more glutes are invovled in this exercise too.

[Turk1]

45 leg press is an tricky one huh seeing it works Glutes, Hamstrings and Quadriceps. I find it's all about foot position and transfer of power through the ball or heel of the foot depending on what you're looking for. You deeper you go the more glutes are invovled in this exercise too.

Yep it does come down to foot positions. With leg presses I like to have my toes pointed slightly out. To me that reduces stress on my joints AND it feels like my quads are working a way lot more.

[Birds]

45 leg press is an tricky one huh seeing it works Glutes, Hamstrings and Quadriceps. I find it's all about foot position and transfer of power through the ball or heel of the foot depending on what you're looking for. You deeper you go the more glutes are invovled in this exercise too.

Correct, it's one of the beautiful things about leg press having a nice big plate to work giving you plenty of different movements, especially if you have adjustable back positions on the seat - you can customise it to suit the muscle focus you want. Heels/ball, distance legs are apart, vertical axis position, angle...

You can even work a bit of calves at the same time if you're using the ball of the foot. Flat or heel will focus more on the thigh muscles.

[NZM.031]

45 degree legpress is what got my hammys here in the first place.. haha.. that and hack squat machine.. but no machines anymore

by freeweight only... i mean... freeweight only... dont have a gym full of equipment... just my power rack and barbell etc at home.. no leg press as far as the eye can see.

i use a manta ray for back squats.. it works great as im only a skinny lad.. but it wont work on the front (well duh!) and i dont like to use a towel or something as i dont want it to slip on the barbell as im nearing the end of the set.

i might try some sumo squats with the bar and see how that goes..

has anyone done deep lunges on a step or something?? worked the quads better?? i still want a compound move, but i just want more focus on the quad area..

[Turk1]

Lunges are a killer! If you superset your leg presses with some lunges to the other end of the gym and back i guarantee you will not walk the next day lol. Lunges really hit your quads nice.

[adznight]

Mmmmmm! Agreed!

[delljit]

45 degree legpress is what got my hammys here in the first place.. haha.. that and hack squat machine.. but no machines anymore

by freeweight only... i mean... freeweight only... dont have a gym full of equipment... just my power rack and barbell etc at home.. no leg press as far as the eye can see.

i use a manta ray for back squats.. it works great as im only a skinny lad.. but it wont work on the front (well duh!) and i dont like to use a towel or something as i dont want it to slip on the barbell as im nearing the end of the set.

i might try some sumo squats with the bar and see how that goes..

has anyone done deep lunges on a step or something?? worked the quads better?? i still want a compound move, but i just want more focus on the quad area..

If youre limited to free weights only then squat + lunges will do great work on your quads. If you can find a step or some sort of sturdy box, then step ups will also help if youre not happy with lunges.

Id ditch the manta ray, after a couple weeks you dont feel any discomfort when doing bb back squats

The thing that im unsure about is you said youre a skinny lad yet you're tryin to isolate areas of the quads, something a well estabilished and decently built lifter would be doing. Id just stick to bb squats til youre atleast at 1.5x bodyweight for 5 reps (supplemented by lunges/legpress) then worry about areas that are not developing.

ps squats are awesome

[NZM.031]

skinny lad yes... but i also posted a few posts ago, that im happy with my hammys, they are established... my legs from the back are thick and wide (within spec to the rest of my body) i want to hit the insides of my quads mainly as i feel its lagging.. if i can bring that up to speed.. i will feel that i will have a reasonably good shaped upper leg... not huge... just a good shape..

so im asking here to create discussion about what others do and different squat variations... i dont want to "isolate" one part of the quad... i just want to hit the insides a bit more. because of cycling.. the outer quad is also reasonable... but its unnoticable because of the inner part.

[delljit]

When you say inner, are you referring to where the quad meets the knee, or the top end?

http://www.exrx.net/Lists/WtMale.html You can click body parts on this and snoop around for anything that looks like it may help out. That said i'd just keep squatting and not worry too much lol

[rugbymatt07]

id like to ask a serious question..

im happy with the development of my hammys... im happy with the thickness and width of my hammys... but my quads are lacking.. especially in the width part.. and mainly the inner part... so ive been thinking of doing front squats, but the weight that i can squat.. my chest and arms cannot hold.. it sits on my collarbone and feels uncomfortable, but with the weight that i can hold, id have to do a gazillion reps to feel that illustrious burn we all strive to achieve..

thoughts?? any other leg moves you guys have found that use your quads more than the hammys.. pure freeweight workout, no machines.

I know I'm going to be shot down for this, but oh well.

Keep on doing regular BB squats mate - they're very good for the quads whereas the hammys stay pretty much completely inactive throughout the squat. So squats will help develop quads but will not develop your hammys at all. It is a common misconception in the gym that the hamstrings are active in the squat - however this has been disproven by mri scans and many other methods.

Cheers.

[NZM.031]

I know I'm going to be shot down for this, but oh well.

Keep on doing regular BB squats mate - they're very good for the quads whereas the hammys stay pretty much completely inactive throughout the squat. So squats will help develop quads but will not develop your hammys at all. It is a common misconception in the gym that the hamstrings are active in the squat - however this has been disproven by mri scans and many other methods.

Cheers.

well... thats just the thing... ive being doing regular bb squats for years and they arent doing a dang thing for my quads compared to what i feel in my hammys and glutes... i can feel it in my quads... but not as much as the hammys... they are burning.. the quads are not.

delljit... inner thigh... in the groin area.. near the knee is ok from cycling. i just want a bit more width up the top.

[Turk1]

skinny lad yes... but i also posted a few posts ago, that im happy with my hammys, they are established... my legs from the back are thick and wide (within spec to the rest of my body) i want to hit the insides of my quads mainly as i feel its lagging.. if i can bring that up to speed.. i will feel that i will have a reasonably good shaped upper leg... not huge... just a good shape..

so im asking here to create discussion about what others do and different squat variations... i dont want to "isolate" one part of the quad... i just want to hit the insides a bit more. because of cycling.. the outer quad is also reasonable... but its unnoticable because of the inner part.

Try pointing your toes outwards

[TTT]

how are you doing the front squats?

The cross arm version or bar in your finger tips/front delts as if you had just cleaned the bar?

also with your regular back squats..

high bar or low bar?

how wide apart are your feet?

[Turk1]

how are you doing the front squats?

The cross arm version or bar in your finger tips/front delts as if you had just cleaned the bar?

also with your regular back squats..

high bar or low bar?

how wide apart are your feet?

What's the variants you can do for regular back squats? Interested on the differences with feet positions and high/low bar

[TTT]

well...

low bar (where it sits on the base of your traps and across your rear delts) will make you lean forward more when you are in the hole.

generally, low bar and a wider stance (heels shoulder width apart with toes pointed out at around 30 degrees) will work the hamstrings and hips work harder than the quads.

this type of squating is what Mark Rippetoe advocates (google or go to www.startingstrength.com)

with the bar sitting higher on your back (top of traps) you will sit more up right when in the hole (not as upright as a front squat but much more so than a low bar squat).

because you are more upright (in the upper body) it is easier to have a more narrow stance.

these 2 combined makes the movement more arse and quad dominant.

also with the front squats, if you can do it with the bar in your hands/front delts, it gives you more of a tight hold on the whole thing compared to crossing your arms and "resting" your hands on the bar.

the tightness produced by the fact that your arms are bent right back and elbows up may help with the issues NZM.031 was saying.

[NZM.031]

thanks guys...

normal back squat is feet shoulder width apart... toes slightly out and pointing in the same direction of the knee... the bar is not on my traps, slightly lower on my rear delts and i hold it with a wide grip... if i have it higher (aka along the line of my shoulders) the bar connects with the bone at the top of my spine and its really uncomfortable

for the front squats, i prefer the cross handed stance (the bent arm one gtst is referring to, i find it is too easy for the weight to draw forward) again, feet shoulder width apart, toes pointing in the same direction as knees. felt uncomfortable on my wrists as they didnt match the straight bar, so next leg workout i will load up the EZ bar and see how that goes...

my usual leg work out looks like this:

Bodyweight squats 2x20

BB squats 4x6-8 (drop sets)

BB calf raise 4x25

Deadlift 2x6-8

Romainian deadlift 2x6-8 (i superset these with the deadlifts)

so i replaced the body weight squats with lunges on a step and the deadlift with front squats... i can definatly feel it in my upper/inner thigh area this morning.. so ill keep going with it.

[fantaskis]

Have you tried more explosive exercises like jump squats, squat presses/snatches etc?

[2lazy]

i dont agree with wearing a belt, only because i like to apply things from the gym into real world applications.. so id prefer to build up lower back strength as you dont wear a belt when your not in the gym... therefore.. your pure strength routine maybe working your major muscles.. your supporting muscles may be lacking.. and your only as strong as your weakest muscle.

i agree that alot of people are vein.. they want to look different.. they want to be big like that guy.. or be ripped like that guy.. or have arms like that guy... they will never be happy.. and they may be a good thing.. they will strive to keep trying and that can only be a good thing... until the motivation is lost because.. i think its better to accept your body shape.. and do the best with what youve got.. dont get depressed, because you will have something that they dont.

its always been an age old battle between the body builders and the strong guys.. how do you judge whos better??? do you judge someone by the intensity of the workout.. or by the weight they lift?? or by the size they are?? do you mock the little guys?? even if they are lifting the same ratio of weight to body weight as you are?? be honest..

id like to ask a serious question..

im happy with the development of my hammys... im happy with the thickness and width of my hammys... but my quads are lacking.. especially in the width part.. and mainly the inner part... so ive been thinking of doing front squats, but the weight that i can squat.. my chest and arms cannot hold.. it sits on my collarbone and feels uncomfortable, but with the weight that i can hold, id have to do a gazillion reps to feel that illustrious burn we all strive to achieve..

thoughts?? any other leg moves you guys have found that use your quads more than the hammys.. pure freeweight workout, no machines.

I broke L5, some say because I was deadlifting too much weight or others because I was not wearing a belt, theres a pic on ausbb.

The main argument is that belts prevent from strengthning the inner core, Mark Rippetoe does not share this view, he actually says the opposite while Markos from PTC does not allow anyone in his gym to use a belt(mind you they are supervised), Fadi an Ex Australian Olympian wears belts as much as possible.

I on the other hand dont have a problem with squats and any type of overhead presses (even when I was recovering), however I strongly suggest you use belts for any form of deadlifts.

When it comes to legs free weights such as front squats, normal squats and texas squats which uses more the hams do well.

For front squats its easier for some to hold the bar with arms crossed. Speaking of squats squat machines do not allow the natural movement of lowering the bar.

Edited June 4, 2010 by 2lazy