Gym And Supplement Discussion

[vspecIInur]

HIIT is definitely the most effective form as you burn fat for an extended period of time after exercise and mainly because it's purely anaerobic. There's also a difference if your talking about achieving weight loss or fat loss. Around 70% is your diet and rest is exercise and weight training.

I usually stick to low-moderate intensity since high intenisty leads to a higher risk of injury. At the end of the day it's better to lose the weight off (whatever your goal is) nice and slow say..on average 2 pounds (3.5k calroies) a week.

Started off at 67kg looking like a skinny fat person and now I'm 85kg <10% bodyfat and a lot more muscle over several years.

[defari]

question:

i used to be about around the 80-85kgs back when i was in highschool (played lots of sports etc)

After nearly 10 years out of school im down around the 70kgs and I'm smack bang on 6 foot tall. So for the past 6 months i've been trying to get my weight back up to the 80mark.. Hitting the weights 3-4 times a week + I've packed my diet full of protein / lots of carbs / fats. eating several times a day + supplementing with 2 x 60g protein shakes a day.

In a nutshell i just keep eating and eating and eating..

So what am I doing wrong? The more I eat / exercise / pump iron, the more i seem to lose weight. I've barely got an ounce of fat on me. I barely drink much, i dont smoke, no drugs so WTF???

[some_cs_student]

<cut>

After nearly 10 years out of school im down around the 70kgs and I'm smack bang on 6 foot tall. So for the past 6 months i've been trying to get my weight back up to the 80mark.. Hitting the weights 3-4 times a week + I've packed my diet full of protein / lots of carbs / fats. eating several times a day + supplementing with 2 x 60g protein shakes a day.

In a nutshell i just keep eating and eating and eating..

<cut>

So your either very sick, like glandular fever, or your doing it wrong

I'm guessing the latter, are you naturally skinny?

What do you eat?

What's your lifting program?

[GTRNUR]

question:

i used to be about around the 80-85kgs back when i was in highschool (played lots of sports etc)

After nearly 10 years out of school im down around the 70kgs and I'm smack bang on 6 foot tall. So for the past 6 months i've been trying to get my weight back up to the 80mark.. Hitting the weights 3-4 times a week + I've packed my diet full of protein / lots of carbs / fats. eating several times a day + supplementing with 2 x 60g protein shakes a day.

In a nutshell i just keep eating and eating and eating..

So what am I doing wrong? The more I eat / exercise / pump iron, the more i seem to lose weight. I've barely got an ounce of fat on me. I barely drink much, i dont smoke, no drugs so WTF???

What you have described is very similiar to how I was 10 years ago. I'd platoed at a lean 76KG, and was on 6 meals a day + 3 protein shakes a day and creatine when training. I couldnt eat anymore as I was already eating when I wasnt hungry and hated feeling bloated. I'd do light weights and light cardio on even days and heavy weights on odd days and had sunday off. I was nearly triathalon level fit, and was strong for my weight but I wanted more size and had hit the wall growth wise.

As it turns out I was doing two things wrong for my metabolism. I was naturally a skinny person, and I was over-training. Also becase of my fast metabolism my fat and sugar intake was way too low, so most of what I was eating was being used as fuel, instead of building size.

I now dont do any cardio at all as it tends to immediatly put my body into a carbolic state, and I weight train 3 days a week at the most. I try and do a fast warm up using light and medium weights, and then step it up to my limit. And finish with a set of lighter weights to cool down.

Im not using any protein or creatine this time, and have been just eating more lean chicken and eggs instead. 3 meals a day is all. And then there is the part that pisses my girlfriend off. I eat a huge amount of icecream for desert every night or just snack on it in the afternoon. I know this probably goes against what everyone says is good for you, but it hasnt made me put on an ounce of fat and has allowed me to make muscle growth gains.

I now bench press 20Kg more than I did 10 years ago, and my stand free weight bicep curl is 10 KG off what I was doing 10 years ago as well. I have had to be careful with much of my arm training though as the reason I stopped training 10 years ago was that I tore the ligaments in both wrists when training too hard. So in the end doing a lot less has helped me more. Im still miles off where I want to be size and weight wise, but its been so much easier getting there this time round.

Anyway that might give you some idea's... so I thought i'd share.

Cheers.

[defari]

So your either very sick, like glandular fever, or your doing it wrong

I'm guessing the latter, are you naturally skinny?

What do you eat?

What's your lifting program?

Im naturally skinny.. which is what i dont understand - shouldnt, as i get older, find it easier to put the weight on.. I always thought my metabolism should be slowing down as i get older - its like its speeding up!

i've had glandular fever before way back in highschool - definitely not that

What do i eat.. pretty much everything.. but for example today... big bowl of oats / chopped banana, 2 protein shakes.. can of baked beans on toast, 3 museli bars, 2 packs of chips, another 2 pieces of toast w/avo, large strip sub and chips from red rooster, and about half a dozen vita wheats with tomato and cheese..

I think it could possibly be my exercise/lifting program.. Usually do chest, arms, abs (bench, curls, sit ups, pushups), recover for a day ... Then ill do quads, calves glutes (squats, leg press) recover for a day - chest/arms/abs - recover for 2 days.. Usually on my 2 day recovery ill stack creatine with my protein shakes

Edited January 4, 2011 by defari

[JKR-32]

I think it could possibly be my exercise/lifting program.. Usually do chest, arms, abs (bench, curls, sit ups, pushups), recover for a day ... Then ill do quads, calves glutes (squats, leg press) recover for a day - chest/arms/abs - recover for 2 days.. Usually on my 2 day recovery ill stack creatine with my protein shakes

Just checking here mate, Are you doing any proper back training?

[defari]

^^^ not really - since driving cars with hard suspension i've found my back gets a bit sore from time to time..

what can you suggest ?

[Mosullivan]

Im naturally skinny.. which is what i dont understand - shouldnt, as i get older, find it easier to put the weight on.. I always thought my metabolism should be slowing down as i get older - its like its speeding up!

i've had glandular fever before way back in highschool - definitely not that

What do i eat.. pretty much everything.. but for example today... big bowl of oats / chopped banana, 2 protein shakes.. can of baked beans on toast, 3 museli bars, 2 packs of chips, another 2 pieces of toast w/avo, large strip sub and chips from red rooster, and about half a dozen vita wheats with tomato and cheese..

I think it could possibly be my exercise/lifting program.. Usually do chest, arms, abs (bench, curls, sit ups, pushups), recover for a day ... Then ill do quads, calves glutes (squats, leg press) recover for a day - chest/arms/abs - recover for 2 days.. Usually on my 2 day recovery ill stack creatine with my protein shakes

Sounds like you're eating a lot of carbs and little protein in comparison.

On the plus side, you can't get glandular fever twice, at least that's what the doctor told me lol.

As far as your lifting, I find it's pretty beneficial to write myself off completely 3 times a week and eat like a horse after.

say for example

Bench Press

Inclined Press

Lat Pull

Curls

45 degree leg press

Shoulder Press

Flys

dumbel swings

Tricep cable press

Chin ups

Push ups

Stomach and exercise ball work.

All 3 sets of 10

Then recover with a good solid 4,000kj worth of food, making sure to include 1 gram of protein for every kg of body weight.

Compound exercises might help too, things like deadlift, cleans, squats, high pulls lat pull etc

We do this for rowing, even with a massive cardio work load, the naturally skinny guys have no issue stacking 4 or 5kg on in the 6 months leading up to the intensive part of the season.

[some_cs_student]

Im naturally skinny.. which is what i dont understand - shouldnt, as i get older, find it easier to put the weight on.. I always thought my metabolism should be slowing down as i get older - its like its speeding up!

<cut>

What do i eat.. pretty much everything.. but for example today... big bowl of oats / chopped banana, 2 protein shakes.. can of baked beans on toast, 3 museli bars, 2 packs of chips, another 2 pieces of toast w/avo, large strip sub and chips from red rooster, and about half a dozen vita wheats with tomato and cheese..

<cut>

I think it could possibly be my exercise/lifting program.. Usually do chest, arms, abs (bench, curls, sit ups, pushups), recover for a day ... Then ill do quads, calves glutes (squats, leg press) recover for a day - chest/arms/abs - recover for 2 days.. Usually on my 2 day recovery ill stack creatine with my protein shakes

Personally I'd drop the isolation, I've seen so many people do much better without it, myself included

Have a read of SPECIALIZE OR GENERALIZE?and A better you

Your diet is pretty bad, there is very small amounts of protein in there, and its missing milk

You didn't mention the weights on any of those lifts....in fact I'd drop most of those exercises and do squat, deadlift, bench, military press, power clean, et cetera.

Have a read of the Markos beginners program.

Also you will get a lot more help on AusBB than SAU. No offense to the SAU guys.

I'd recommend posting in the strength section on AusBB.

EDIT read as many newsletters as you can. If your in Melbourne then PTC frankston is $20 a session at the Frankston Football grounds , it could be worth it for a few sessions to learn good technique...

[Trozzle]

His milk might be coming from "big bowl of oats" and "2 protein shakes" assuming he has milk with his protein shakes....

[defari]

^^^ cheers for the advice and the links..

And lol yep i do have milk with breakfast and with shakes.. usually about 500-600ml full cream per shake..

[Mosullivan]

Has anyone tried Dymetadrine Extreme by AST?

Started it a few days ago, it packs a bit of a punch.

Will have to see how it goes in the next few weeks.

[Birds]

Your food intake sucks defari, minus the red rooster it looks like something that someone trying to lose weight would eat. Skinny people always say they eat alot but it's a very subjective term and the reality is usually not all that much compared to what they should be eating. Don't just eat when you're hungry, make a hobby out of it...and get some meat, pasta and solid dairy into your daily diet.

Also, when are you taking the protein shakes? Timing in conjunction with workout is very key to them actually doing anything. It's not enough that they are just in your body. Weights at the gym need to be need to be upped too, even if it reduces reps/sets. Compound exercises are good for the weight gain.

[defari]

^^ yep - im begining to see where i'm going wrong - i tihnk my big problem is staying focused and eating to the point that ill be sick..

I take my protein about 30 mins before any exercise and another in the afternoon..

I really need to be more focused and just keep eating.

[BoyWhoCriedWolf]

I thought the shake should be had after a workout??

[defari]

i just take one before and one about 2 hours after.. I just cant do it straight after - ill throw up if i do..

[Mosullivan]

As a general rule, if you don't eat within 30 min to an hour after weights, your body will start to metabolize muscle tissue for energy, actually making you smaller/weaker

[some_cs_student]

i just take one before and one about 2 hours after.. I just cant do it straight after - ill throw up if i do..

Interesting, I'll address a few questions in this post with my opinion.

You don't have to time protein shakes to before/after workouts, I take one in the morning with the oatmeal, as the body is starved overnight.

The more you can use natural food to get protein the better.

Protein shakes after workout are very important for building muscle, followed by a carbohydrate rich meal within 1hour of training.

I did read some research that you should avoid eating for 1-2hours if your just trying to lose weight but never validated that research.

Here's some of my interesting articles I've read regarding nutrition, before nissansilvia fell apart in regard to this info:

Foods that make you look good Nekid Suggested reading for everyone.

Protein Prejudice

The Truth About Bulking

Diet Advice

These are mainly for weight loss but still interesting:

5 Reasons for Failed Body Transformations

Weightloss for Dumbies Dieting disasters

The general comment I've heard about supplements, was that if it worked it would be banned in powerlifting / general sport.

Caffeine works for increasing your metabolism, which is why many of those expensive supplements are caffeine mixed in with a few other things. The serious guys I've met don't touch that, they eat well and train hard.

Someone asked about supplements, there a discussion on NS for this:

Supplements - an explination (sic) What each one is for, when to use and what they do for the body.

To simplify all the above, all you need to do is eat the correct level of protein , fats and carbs. For an ectomorph that's going to be a lot of food, and I wouldn't bother counting calories. Just eat, and if you get no results eat more

And then train hard with compound exercises 3 times a week.

I've posted the above links so you can do your own analysis and make some decisions, but here's a training newsletter .

And finally MAXIMISING MINIMALISM

I'm not going to bother commenting on your training routine, except to say its highly inefficient for building muscle.

And I think my billion links I've posted is enough reading material for the next week or two, if you read most of them you might have very few questions left. lol

[some_cs_student]

I thought the shake should be had after a workout??

Yes. But it can be had at other times, I have one first thing in the morning before breakfast.

Either way food is better in most situations

As a general rule, if you don't eat within 30 min to an hour after weights, your body will start to metabolize muscle tissue for energy, actually making you smaller/weaker

+1

[BoyWhoCriedWolf]

Yeah, I subsitute cereal for a shake in the morning and have one after the workout in the arvo.