Gym And Supplement Discussion

[scrappy_NS]

are you on the right protein? make sure your on a mass/weight gainer?

and eating healthy + cardio f**ked me up.

i stopped cardio and started eating junk/fatty foods with red meats and chicken and a fair bit of french toast. combined with mass gainer.

and with my new workout plan im seeing regular weight gains and i can up my weights at least 2-5 kilos a week. and i have a hyper fast metabolism

im 18 now. im 5.10 and have been for a while. i started gym 6 and a half months months ago weighing 50 and i now weigh 70kg.

on bench press i could barely lift the 20kg bar and now im onto 40kg plus bar. i started doing 5kgs on biceps and now im on 22.

my plan is set up as a legs monday, wednesday is push and pull and friday is another push pull but different.

and im seeing alot more gains on this than the monday:chest & tri's ladida

not saying im massive. coz im not, i have a LONG way to go.

just thought id share whats working for me

[some_cs_student]

are you on the right protein? make sure your on a mass/weight gainer?

and eating healthy + cardio f**ked me up.

i stopped cardio and started eating junk/fatty foods with red meats and chicken and a fair bit of french toast. combined with mass gainer.

and with my new workout plan im seeing regular weight gains and i can up my weights at least 2-5 kilos a week. and i have a hyper fast metabolism

<cut>

On a previous post, cereal is ok. But oatmeal is so much better for you

Cardio, if your referring to steady state cardio like riding/jogging then that will remove muscle. Have you look at pictures of a marathon runner?

However, if you do tabata or sprinting that will not effect your strength, and its great for you. In fact, HIIT in general is great

EDIT: Split Routines: Are They the Death of Productive Training? not a quick read but very good for anyone still doing split routines.

In regard to mass gainer, that's just protein with carbs mixed in. You could just use protein shake + eat some carbs, or just eat protein + carbs. Whatever works for you....

[vspecIInur]

Remember everyone, genetic molecular structure plays a big part. Too many may not know this but these categories determine whether your naturally an ectomorph, mesomorph or endomorph. Fundamentally, the response your body receives is based on diet and training regimes which in effect places you in a particular category.

Protein shakes are sometimes overrated due to the fact that people rely on them far too much. If you can eat high grade protein foods all the time then you do not need shakes. Studies do show that post workout is the window of opportunity (30 -1 hour) for fast protein absorption and glycogen supercompensation so in effect only use hydrolysed protein. Mass building using supplements isn't as good as eating whole foods. Your bulky foods tend to be complex carbohydrates and meats/poultry.

In regards to training, I train one body part per day. My body responds well to it and I always mix it up every few weeks such as drop sets, giant sets, super sets, pyramid sets, different exercises, different order but I always aim for 6-8 reps and once in a while performing some strength training to increase the weight overall. You won't get big by using light weights because your not putting enough strain on your muscle fibres. You want to ensure you build those fibres to improve overall size. Last thing is focus on isolative movements and mass buiding exercises eg. preacher curls and barbell curls respectively because eccentric and concentric movement is important which ultimately correlates with good form.

[JKR-32]

Cardio, if your referring to steady state cardio like riding/jogging then that will remove muscle. Have you look at pictures of a marathon runner?

.

Sorry mate, but that is a fairly irrelevant example. How many marathon runners do you know that are doing weights? None. Because they are trying to be small so they don't have to carry as much bulk for their 42km run. Cyclist however have huge legs because they need them to power them through their race. The idea of cardio is not to build muscle, but to strengthen the heart and burn fat, Steady rate cardio for extended periods of time is very effective for this. As are many other things.

Edited January 7, 2011 by JKR-32

[some_cs_student]

Sorry mate, but that is a fairly irrelevant example. How many marathon runners do you know that are doing weights? None. Because they are trying to be small so they don't have to carry as much bulk for their 42km run. Cyclist however have huge legs because they need them to power them through they're race. The idea of cardio is not to build muscle, but to strengthen the heart and burn fat, Steady rate cardio for extended periods of time is very effective for this. As are many other things.

My point was only that steady state cardio does tend to reduce muscle, which reduces the BMR.

Lower BMR makes it harder to lose weight, which is why most people do steady state cardio.

Its not "very" effective as you put it. Although its still debated, I've read / watched articles / documentaries that advise that HIIT over a 24hour period is superior for fat loss. That said I'm confident you or I could keep finding counter studies.

In fact we could sit here all day doing that

I assume we're going to start heartrate next / cardio vs weights next ?

Tabata is a great form of cardio. Kettlebells used correctly is going to burn a lot more than steady state cardio.

Hopefully we'd both agree that diet is much more important for fat loss than any kind of exercise.

[JKR-32]

Yes, I would agree that diet is far more important. Steady cardio is "very" effective though. I'm not even going to bother reading that PTC article as I'm not a fan of his preaching. As for steady cardio to remove muscle: You actually need to be doing high intensity cardio for a very long period of time for your body to start breaking down muscle as a source of energy. Far more intense and prolonged then most people are capable of.

I agree that this could turn into a huge argument or pissing contest. To be perfectly honest I couldn't be stuffed going there.

I think that lower BMR may make it harder to lose weight as you have less to lose.

And agreed, Tabata is a great way to train, though not all the time. It needs to be thrown in as a mix up to keep the body guessing.

End of rant

[Mosullivan]

Depends what you want to achieve yeah?

If you want to power lift, why would you bother with any type of cardio?

Similarly, if you wanted to run marathons, why would you do anything but steady state cardio.

Really, it comes down to personal preference/what your goals are.

Personally I feel that weight loss/maintenance all comes down to energy expenditure, if you eat less than you use, you loose weight and vice versa.

Like running 10second 1/4 miles in a car, it doesn't matter what you do to get there, only that you get there.

Of course, that changes if you're training for competition or a sport etc. I thought it was interesting recently, reading a book on rowing coaching, one of the rowers made the observation that in the late 80s when the eastern Europeans were dominating, everyone in the west was caught up with HIIT training. Where as the east German teams were spending their time in long steady state pieces of 2 hours or more. Evidently, the base from steady state training helped them by giving them greater capacity in their high intensity training.

Just food for thought.

[some_cs_student]

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Of course, that changes if you're training for competition or a sport etc. I thought it was interesting recently, reading a book on rowing coaching, one of the rowers made the observation that in the late 80s when the eastern Europeans were dominating, everyone in the west was caught up with HIIT training. Where as the east German teams were spending their time in long steady state pieces of 2 hours or more. Evidently, the base from steady state training helped them by giving them greater capacity in their high intensity training.

Just food for thought.

Interesting...

Steady state definitely has a purpose, but as JKR-32 mixing it up is important. In the past I did just steady state cardio and didn't get far in terms of any measurable improvement...but that's just me

[some_cs_student]

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I agree that this could turn into a huge argument or pissing contest. To be perfectly honest I couldn't be stuffed going there.

<cut>

Neither car I. We can probably agree that some exercise is better than no exercise

Anyway, anyone on here can do there own research and draw there own conclusions. If it works for you then great

[Birds]

The continuing bane of this thread is that we all have different goals, body types, genetics, predispositions to injury, metabolisms etc. Not everything will work for everyone, and there is more than one way to your goal. Were it the case, we would have some sort of worldly, universally agreed upon regime that everyone should follow ala the PTC newsletter (okay, that was a low blow ). So arguing that this will work better than that is incredibly moot, especially when so many studies/articles contradict each other (don't even get me started on the stretching / warm ups debate) and we don't know the people we're giving advice to.

It makes for good discussion but we can only really give advice generally speaking and therefore I think the best advice I could give anyone is to experiment with different programs and diets until you find out what works for you personally. Just try everything until you see results you like (give them a fair chance), because sticking to one way for years...only to discover long down the track what you should have been doing to get the results you want...sucks! I've swapped things around, heaps - I'm forever modifying my exercises and eating habits. But I've been happy with my results for years. You have to change it up with age and changes to your lifestyle anyway. Everyone does. To think you can get it spot on, straight up, is just arrogant! Above proper eating and exercising, the most important thing IMO is motivation. I've found the people getting the results they want have one thing in common and it's not their diet or program, it's motivation. They're the regulars at the gymnasium who are there on the 40 degree days instead of finding excuses not to be there. So keep it up and experiment...your body will do the rest!

And watch out for the mind games your head will play on you throughout the journey

[some_cs_student]

The continuing bane of this thread is that we all have different goals, body types, genetics, predispositions to injury, metabolisms etc. Not everything will work for everyone, and there is more than one way to your goal. Were it the case, we would have some sort of worldly, universally agreed upon regime that everyone should follow ala the PTC newsletter (okay, that was a low blow ). So arguing that this will work better than that is incredibly moot, especially when so many studies/articles contradict each other (don't even get me started on the stretching / warm ups debate) and we don't know the people we're giving advice to.

<cut>

That is a low blow, PTC are biased towards weight loss. Which is what *most* people aim for.

The rest of the PTC newsletters target weight gain and strength gain. Again very common. In fact PTC can tailor things to your goals, that's what strength & conditioning coaches do.

Of course there is more than one way to your goal, a better question is what is the most efficient way to achieve your goal.

I understand that many people do not like the way PTC newsletters are written which is fine, its just a source of information, you don't have to read it.

I welcome people to post other article, although there is a lot of misinformation in the industry, which is why I think PTC is a useful source of information.

Above proper eating and exercising, the most important thing IMO is motivation.

There is a saying that the best program done 70%, won't be as effective as an average program done 100%

I completely agree with you, although I think motivation (or discipline depending which way you look at it) is the highest priority, without that there is no diet or training.

[JKR-32]

There is plenty of miss information in the ptc articles as well mate, one of the reasons I don't find them a good read. Each to their own though. If you find them useful, that's tops. There is some good info in there, but also plenty of useless opinions a well.

[some_cs_student]

There is plenty of miss information in the ptc articles as well mate, one of the reasons I don't find them a good read. Each to their own though. If you find them useful, that's tops. There is some good info in there, but also plenty of useless opinions a well.

Markos/PTC are old-school in there training methods, I agree with most of his views. In fact I've been training there for about a year and have got stronger/leaner than I have ever been.

And obviously he has a strong opinion on these subjects.

But if you do have a good consistent source of information post it up.

I enjoy reading and am happy to read alternative information.

[JKR-32]

Sorry mate, my main source of solid info is my housemate who is an exercise physiologist. I read a few things here and there. My other house mate has the arnie book called modern body building etc. It's an interesting read as well.

[JKR-32]

Silly phone double posted....

Edited January 9, 2011 by JKR-32

[Mosullivan]

Silly phone double posted....

That'll happen if you bulk your fingers up, hitting two keys at once, etc

Edited January 9, 2011 by Mosullivan

[Birds]

Gonna feel real good telling all those twits at the gym with Power Balance wristbands, that they can now obtain a refund from Power Balance themselves for false advertising.

[NickR33]

seriously though, if you didn't know that was a scam from day one there really isn't much hope for you

[Birds]

I have a friend, well I used to have a friend, who the other day told me he bought one because even though some people don't think it works there's no harm having it on there anyway in case it does. I can see alot of Aussie sports people removing their endorsement from the Power Balance site now.

[TUFF_350]

Anyone know of any good MMA type training routines/programs?

After something which has a good mix of weights and cardio, but am too lazy to tailor my own. Have downloaded "The Pit" DVDs featuring Chuck Lidells trainer but they are a bunch of crepa. May as well have downloaded Taebo cos its just as bad!

Edited January 14, 2011 by TUFF_350