Gym And Supplement Discussion

[Birds]

You got the flu on Monday and were in the gym working out today?

Curls before deadlifts?

Please go back to the basics my friend

[hazjaz]

Don't you love how life can give the finger to your plans? Sucks training while being sick. Taking vitamin C and all that?

Yeah nice! So most of it looks pretty much spot on. Those stretches are pretty intense eh? I love them. Only a few things I might suggest.. Do only as many warm up sets as you need. And yes, try to pick an exercise which focuses more on the target muscle. While pull overs are definitely an awesome exercise, I'd choose something like the OHP, dumbbell OHP, push press, something like that. I prefer lower rep deadlifts, max 5 reps, but it really just comes down to personal preference

Workout B looks good. I'd be super cautious about pairing a low back intensive exercise like SLDL with squats. Maybe swap the squats for leg press, or swap the SLDL for some kind of leg curl. If you MUST do SLDL within the same session as squats, do the squats first.

And spot on with the days as well.. You could also go Tues/Thurs/Sat, or Wed/Fri/Sun if it suited your schedule better.. personal preference once again.

Haha yeah the protein part can be a bit much; I figure if you're hitting about 300 grams, it's more than enough. Our bodies have a hard time absorbing huge amounts of protein (without any "help", if you know what I mean), not impossible, just a bit different. I find that the difference between approx. 300 grams a day, and 400 grams a day, isn't any noticeable or tangible difference. See how you go, you might get far better results with eating a bit more!

After a while you'll really enjoy those stretches. Wait until you do the biceps one... ho-ly-fu-ck-in-g-sh-it. That hurts! And the pump is pretty intense as well.

Haha it's the worst, jumped on some meds ASAP,, hate being sick, ain't nobody got time for that.

Yeah the stretches are defiantly something else.. I got some weird looks while doing them haha, I haven't seen anyone train DC in the gym.

Defiantly enjoy the pullovers but from what I read I think I should hit the shoulders a little more.. Do you alternate exercises each time you do workout a/b to hit different areas? Or tend to stick on the same routine?, I used to go heavy with dead lifts and went off them for a bit, going to build them back up slowly but wouldn't mind pumping some reps out in the mean time (also the weight entered for deadlifts is the weight put on either side, just so you don't think in too bitch)

Yeah good thinking with the sldl.. Each to switch up to something else, I'm defiantly sticking with squats though.. I always used to train dead lifts or squats as a first exercise so this is a good switch up haha

Looking forward to the pain tomorrow!

[hazjaz]

You got the flu on Monday and were in the gym working out today?

Curls before deadlifts?

Please go back to the basics my friend

Curls before deadlifts? What are you reading..

[Birds]

Im thinking Workout B would go something like this..

Dumbell Alternating Curl

Barbell Reverse Curl

Calves (going off what you told me)

Stiff Legged Deadlift

Squats

[hazjaz]

Im thinking Workout B would go something like this..

Dumbell Alternating Curl

Barbell Reverse Curl

Calves (going off what you told me)

Stiff Legged Deadlift

Squats

Fair enough lol..

Going off the DC style workout. What is the problem with hitting the hami's after arms anyway

[France]

Squats last?? Lol..

[Birds]

Fair enough lol..

Going off the DC style workout. What is the problem with hitting the hami's after arms anyway

Tis a compound movement; it uses the biceps under tension. You do enough deadlifts and you won't need curls let alone be able to do them properly. So the curls beforehand become A. a waste of time, and B. a potential hinderence to deadlifts.

[Dajae]

Ok, let's start by saying that not all facets of exercise amount to an exact science. There need not be a 'right' or 'wrong' way concerning every detail.

You got the flu on Monday and were in the gym working out today?

Curls before deadlifts?

Please go back to the basics my friend

Are 'curls' and 'deadlifts' not basic movements?

Haha it's the worst, jumped on some meds ASAP,, hate being sick, ain't nobody got time for that.

Yeah the stretches are defiantly something else.. I got some weird looks while doing them haha, I haven't seen anyone train DC in the gym.

Defiantly enjoy the pullovers but from what I read I think I should hit the shoulders a little more.. Do you alternate exercises each time you do workout a/b to hit different areas? Or tend to stick on the same routine?, I used to go heavy with dead lifts and went off them for a bit, going to build them back up slowly but wouldn't mind pumping some reps out in the mean time (also the weight entered for deadlifts is the weight put on either side, just so you don't think in too bitch)

Yeah good thinking with the sldl.. Each to switch up to something else, I'm defiantly sticking with squats though.. I always used to train dead lifts or squats as a first exercise so this is a good switch up haha
Looking forward to the pain tomorrow!

So true! Being ill can hamper a lot of day-to-day things, especially training. I would recommend checking out supplementing with L-Glutamine. It's been shown in numerous studies to have a positive effect on the immune system, via interactions within the digestive tract. Seeing as how many pathogens enter via this tract, it makes a lot of sense. It also has the added benefit of being a sacrificial amino acid, in that it can be burned by gut bacteria for fuel and sustenance, instead of whole ingested proteins.

Yeah the stretches are great, I find that they also help a lot with the recovery side of things. Lol, yeah the looks never seem to lessen, especially when I start making these weird faces!

Yep, so basically you're meant to have 3 exercises for each of the "A" sessions and "B" sessions. For example, chest, I have the following: Incline barbell press, flat barbell press, flat dumbbell press. Nice, 120kg for 10 is nothing to slouch at, much better than your average Joe.

Awesome, just remember that for your next "B" sessions, you'll need to change the squats for something else. In my own routine, for quad exercises, I have squats, leg press, and the hack squat machine. Haha, wait until you do some 20+ rep squat sets, you'll feel those the next day that's for sure

Fair enough lol..

Going off the DC style workout. What is the problem with hitting the hami's after arms anyway

There is no problem. However, because doing it like this doesn't fit in with what people think you should be doing, it inherently becomes false in their view.

Squats last?? Lol..

To strictly imply that the only way to gain positive results on squats is to have them first in exercise order, is unfounded. If you look at it from a perspective which is not tainted by dogmatic thinking and perspective, it actually makes a lot of sense to have them towards the end of the training session. See below.

Tis a compound movement; it uses the biceps under tension. You do enough deadlifts and you won't need curls let alone be able to do them properly. So the curls beforehand become A. a waste of time, and B. a potential hinderence to deadlifts.

Birds, I like a lot of your posts, but I think you need to stop representing opinion as fact.

Yes, deadlifts are a compound movement. Yes, the biceps are used during the deadlift movement.... and the absolute facts stop there.

Not being able to do curls properly after deadlifts is exactly the theory and reasoning behind placing them first in a training session, ahead of deadlifts. The total taxation on the body as a whole, caused by curls, is far less than that of deadlifts. Besides, try telling the likes of Steve Reeves, Reg Park, or Frank Zane, that they only need deadlifts to have great performing, great looking arms.

Whether or not they are a waste of time, as stated in the format you presented, is opinion; ultimately, this becomes subjective when the requirements are taken into account. This guy probably wants to be decently strong, and look good doing it. Therefore, strong performing and aesthetically pleasing arms are a goal. To achieve this outcome, one has to look at a more rounded approach, which entails doing direct muscle work. Is it absolutely necessary in all cases, and with all goals? Not at all. But in this case, it's a perfect use of time. If his goal was to just have huge deadlift numbers, I probably wouldn't recommend it.

Potential hindrance to deadlifts, I mean, sure, anything is possible. But in all instances of DC training, those that do it correctly, do not experience any apparent or tangible loss in performance. It'll probably feel weird doing deadlifts last, but hardly a hindrance.

If your sport or job required you to compete in deadlifting as the goal (such as power lifting), then yes, it would be wise to train deadlifts exclusively. But he's not a power lifter, and he is not competing in these events.

Regardless, he wanted to do SLDLs, something which I already advised against since squats are to be done in the same session.

The theory for leaving the big movements until last (think quad/hamstring/"back thickness" exercises) in this style of training, is that these exercises produce the greatest magnitude of stress on the body. Let's say we took the squat as an example. I rock up to the gym. Do my warm up/mobility work/whatever, then head over to the squat rack. I do a handful of warm up sets until I reach working weight. This is a heavy set of 5 - 6 reps, done with such intensity that the last rep I'm basically dying on the way up; you know, real failure. I reduce the weight a little, and via hope and prayer, somehow manage to bust out a 20+ rep set, where the last rep I'm almost (dramatic effect for this example) blacking out when I rack the bar. I now have to complete the rest of my training session with the same intensity for all exercises. Wait.. What? If someone truly went balls-to-the-wall intense like this, they would hardly have the energy and CNS ability to carry out the rest of the training session.

Now, let's flip it.

I do some curls until failure, no biggie. My heart is pumping and I'm sweating, but I'm far from being tired. Same with calves, no problem. Hit some leg curls; hamstrings are fairly toasted and pumped, but I'm still pretty fresh. I can now go into that squat rack, knowing that once I give it my all for those 2 working sets, I can crawl home. I don't need to subconsciously 'save' myself for the rest of the workout.

Don't get me wrong, those squats will be harder because your hamstrings have already been trained. But the amazing thing about the human body, is that it can adapt to things at an incredible rate. Personally, I still manage to add weight every time I do the exercise, and so do many, many others that I've got into doing this style of training. Besides, there is the benefit of gaining acquired mechanical advantage through the increase of muscle cross sectional area. In this case, the occlusion caused in the hamstring muscles via our focused rest-pause set exercise. How much of an advantage that is gained is anyone's guess, and is probably so varied according to the individual, that it would be hard to put a value against it. But, the benefit is there nonetheless. This is a mathematical certainty.

To instantly dismiss the theories and principles behind DC training, despite the fact that it has incredible success and results, because it doesn't fit in with the general paradigm of what training should look like or be structured, is a fallacy in of itself. The theories have just as much merit as theories of any other training system. To try and place absolute statements on something for which we don't yet know it's full extent, is illogical; this is a dogmatic way of thinking, which in itself is flawed.

DC training works, 5/3/1 works, hell, even doing one body part a day works. How effective is each for a desired goal? Well, that's all subjective...

[TTT]

I haven't seen anyone train DC in the gym.

You won't see it in any other gyms either.

I'm sure you'll work out why eventually.

[Dajae]

You won't see it in any other gyms either.

I'm sure you'll work out why eventually.

Because the majority of the fitness industry population are narrow sighted and hive-minded?

[L33SH]

I've been selected to trial Bulk Nutrients newest up and coming product - pre workout NO3X

This product has been designed to maximise “pump” while getting the largest legal stimulant kick possible.

Will let you know what I think

[bozodos]

You won't see it in any other gyms either.

I'm sure you'll work out why eventually.

pls explain Tolga?

I've been selected to trial Bulk Nutrients newest up and coming product - pre workout NO3X

This product has been designed to maximise “pump” while getting the largest legal stimulant kick possible.

Will let you know what I think

looked interesting though I'm not a huge fan of stimulant based pre workouts

[blah_blah]

Example. For your body to produce 20 grams of new muscle tissue in your chest, it requires only 3 sets (of a high enough intensity). Regardless of how many sets you do, your body can only produce a certain amount of new muscle tissue. Just because you did 6 sets, doesn't mean you'll grow 40 grams. Just because you did 9 sets, doesn't mean you'll grow 60 grams. See where I'm going with this?

I find this interesting, sometimes I wonder If I exercise too many sets on the one muscle group.

I spose the term 'No such thing as overtaining' only really applies to non Natty's

[r31slpr]

Looks like that program needs more back work (my unprofessional opinion).

Dajae, lots of people do squats and deads in the same session with no ill effects

[Dajae]

I find this interesting, sometimes I wonder If I exercise too many sets on the one muscle group.

I spose the term 'No such thing as overtaining' only really applies to non Natty's

I'll concede it's not a concrete theory so to speak, but I'm pretty sure if I dig a little in PubMed, I'd be able to find the studies I read which seemed to support this idea. Yeah totally agree, if you're using some kind of PED, you have such a huge advantage in terms of recovery abilities and growth advantage, both muscularly and CNS.

I think how people react to training, can be expressed as a bell curve. As in, 96% (can't remember the exact figure, but this gives enough of an idea to present the example) of the population fit in the middle section of the curve. These people respond (usually) most favourably to a higher frequency, higher intensity, less volume type of approach. The ends of the curve are the opposites; you've got the guys that grow muscle by looking at weights, picking it up for 3 reps, then going home. Then you've got the other guys, who need to do 349584436 sets a week to see any results.

Looks like that program needs more back work (my unprofessional opinion).

Dajae, lots of people do squats and deads in the same session with no ill effects

It can be tailored sufficiently through exercise choice to minimise this... when doing things like pull-ups, chin-ups, seated cable rows, bent over rows, t-bar rows, etc... I tend to do quite a few warm up sets, gradually building up the weight, until reaching my working set. When you look at it on paper, the volume between pressing/pulling is basically balanced. For someone who doesn't have shit posture and thoracic health, this is plenty to keep the shoulders happy. If someone isn't so lucky though, it could be wise to swap some tricep/shoulder pressing movements for more "isolation" type movements... like lateral raises, tricep pushdowns, etc. I personally do light weight cable face pulls twice a week, just to make sure though.

Yeah totally agree also, plenty of people do squats and deads in the same session. However, since the idea with DC training is to go past absolute failure as much as possible, this can put a lot of stress on the lower back, since this often tires quicker than say, the quads. I suppose the idea is to minimise the chance of injury as much as possible, especially since the intensity for each exercise is so high. This I'm cool with, since I'd rather be lifting healthy for a long time.

Also, I'm not sure if someone could squat and deadlift balls to the wall 3 times a week, going to failure each working set. I don't think steroids would even save you... depending of course on your strength levels. A n00b might get away with it, but someone more advanced would find it difficult I'd imagine.

[r31slpr]

Fair enough, I see your point.

The back work comment was more directed at the guy trialing the program because unless I read wrong that's the only upper back work in there.

Considering it was also assisted pull ups I'd hazard a guess that his thoracic strength isn't that great, it may not be bad, but not optimal

[The Bogan]

Yay for me, legs day today took it easy to see how my back held out, managed to get the full 8 reps and sets of the 863 finishing on 10 at 115 so I'm very happy.

Even was able to do front squats and finish off everything and not a sign of pain after.

I just have to wait till next Tuesday to see how dead lifting feels.

Very happy indeed.

[L33SH]

Yay for me, legs day today took it easy to see how my back held out, managed to get the full 8 reps and sets of the 863 finishing on 10 at 115 so I'm very happy.

Even was able to do front squats and finish off everything and not a sign of pain after.

I just have to wait till next Tuesday to see how dead lifting feels.

Very happy indeed.

awesome news:)

[Dajae]

I've been selected to trial Bulk Nutrients newest up and coming product - pre workout NO3X

This product has been designed to maximise “pump” while getting the largest legal stimulant kick possible.

Will let you know what I think

Tried to find an ingredient list, but couldn't seem to find any. Are you allowed to give away any info?

Fair enough, I see your point.

The back work comment was more directed at the guy trialing the program because unless I read wrong that's the only upper back work in there.

Considering it was also assisted pull ups I'd hazard a guess that his thoracic strength isn't that great, it may not be bad, but not optimal

Ah ok.. Yeah there is an 'A' workout, and a 'B' workout, which are cycled in the usual 'ABABAB' fashion. If he changes the tricep focus exercises to non-pressing moves, he should be sweet. The volume should balance out; bit of foam rolling and stretching and good to go.

You're right, didn't remember that. Thoracic weakness/tightness, or he's just a bit weaker at pull ups.. either can be improved with a little bit of effort, though. I wonder if he finds chin ups/neutral grip pull ups any easier? If so, they could be good progressions to work into the routine, along with wide grip lat pull downs to simulate the movement. Not ideal, but it's a path to take.

Yay for me, legs day today took it easy to see how my back held out, managed to get the full 8 reps and sets of the 863 finishing on 10 at 115 so I'm very happy.

Even was able to do front squats and finish off everything and not a sign of pain after.

I just have to wait till next Tuesday to see how dead lifting feels.

Very happy indeed.

Any progress is good progress

[rev210]

DC training appears to be a bodybuilding program.

Not a strength program.

So with that in mind, its focus is asthetic goals.

If its more fun than arnies or ronnies program for you then just do it. Like everything else if you want the results of the guy who thought of it then you are out of luck. without the same genes and the juice program And more importantly the actual effort capabillity .People focus too much on the pro program as a means to the same results. there is night and day in what a punter considers a max lift effort or lift to 'failure' vs a good or professional athlete.