Gym And Supplement Discussion

[Tangles]

Has to be stiff leg deadlifts, trying to ensure I have no knee movement during the up/down of the lift; only going down to upper shin height (until I get more flexability)

[Birds]

Yeah was gonna say, if you're doing regular deadlifts then switch to stiff. Don't stress too much about how far you go down with stiffs either...they don't need as much range of motion as normal deadlifts; your lower back does much more work with stiffs.

[Tangles]

Yeah cheers mate - 2hr workout today, did 4 sets of 10 Stiff Legged Deadlifts; couple times the right knee gave way out to the right (same way it used to dislocate) because I put a small range of movement into the joint with the hip thrust; must keep the knee joints dead straight. Noticed it was more work on the lower back. Form was ok, only 30kg but Im in no rush to smash out the Mass - prefer perfect form over mass given the risk of injury.

Next week I start a Split routine. Probably too much but will see a) how long it takes me, will only have say an hour from 6-7am pre-Uni, and b) how I feel about the exercises before changing it up too much.

GYM_Schedule.docx

Feel free to critique - cheers

[No Crust Racing]

Interesting stuff watching that squat vid, makes me realise I'm not going deep enough if the idea is hammies to calves. I have THE shittest flexibility so that will be a struggle but will see what I can do.

Another question for the floor. I'm looking for a post workout supplement just to replace what I'm taking out and give the body anything it might need. That said I am only looking to gain another 2-3kg top so I'm not looking to build huge or anything like that, just strengthen up a bit and get a more balanced/fitter look. Something with an OK amount of protein would probably be fine, but I used to buy it in bulk from a gym mate who no longer has access to it.

My sessions are only 50 or so mins, can be found in "Balance my home gym routine" thread if anyone needs that info.

Edited February 3, 2012 by ActionDan

[GTR_JOEY]

Interesting stuff watching that squat vid, makes me realise I'm not going deep enough if the idea is hammies to calves. I have THE shittest flexibility so that will be a struggle but will see what I can do.

Another question for the floor. I'm looking for a post workout supplement just to replace what I'm taking out and give the body anything it might need. That said I am only looking to gain another 2-3kg top so I'm not looking to build huge or anything like that, just strengthen up a bit and get a more balanced/fitter look. Something with an OK amount of protein would probably be fine, but I used to buy it in bulk from a gym mate who no longer has access to it.

My sessions are only 50 or so mins, can be found in "Balance my home gym routine" thread if anyone needs that info.

Protein/carbs ie dextrose and some BCAA's if ur keen will be a goof post work out shake

[No Crust Racing]

Anything in particular people recommend or more importantly I should stick clear off? Planning on just going into the local health food place and see what's on the shelf or are there better sources online? I don't mind buying in bulk to save as it lasts me a long time.

[Dani Boi]

Yeah cheers mate - 2hr workout today, did 4 sets of 10 Stiff Legged Deadlifts; couple times the right knee gave way out to the right (same way it used to dislocate) because I put a small range of movement into the joint with the hip thrust; must keep the knee joints dead straight. Noticed it was more work on the lower back. Form was ok, only 30kg but Im in no rush to smash out the Mass - prefer perfect form over mass given the risk of injury.

Next week I start a Split routine. Probably too much but will see a) how long it takes me, will only have say an hour from 6-7am pre-Uni, and b) how I feel about the exercises before changing it up too much.

GYM_Schedule.docx

Feel free to critique - cheers

2 hour workout? probably lost muscle with all that cortisol your body released lol. Workout 45-60 minutes max unless your on roids.

[sinistaGTR]

Well just bought Animal pak, M-Stak and Gain fast 3100....see how they go.

been on the pak for about 2 weeks now and its great stuff so after a lot of reading I got myself a Stack. Had the choice between the universal range and the BSN range (NO Xplod, syntha-6 etc etc). Im overseas so I can get this stuff extremely cheap atm....

[Tangles]

2 hour workout? probably lost muscle with all that cortisol your body released lol. Workout 45-60 minutes max unless your on roids.

lol, you got me worried after that comment - spent a few hrs last night reading up on the issue. Taking dextrose pre/post workout helps raise Insulin, which keeps cortisol in check. Gained some handy information from my reading last night, you make a good point.

However, I feel that Im OK at this stage, Im recovering very well & feel I could hit the gym again in the evening (havent done so - yet). Really want to get to the gym again today, but 2days off while Im with my kids. Surprised at how well Ive recovered after each session. I know 2hrs might be pushing it a bit but Ive got the energy, determination and the will to push myself. If anything its not a bad thing through this initial "back to gym" period Im going through, as Im gaining muscle mass, strength & dropping body fat, but Im not working at smashing PB's......

Taking pre-workout: 6g jack3d, 20g protein, 30g dextrose, 5g BCAA's & 5g creatine

Taking post-workout: 70g protein, 90g dextrose, 8g BCAA's & 8g creatine

Going to add to pre-workout drink some Inner Armour TestPump; might help block estrogen & release testosterone (which would then block cortisol)

Also grabbing to add to the post-workout drink some pure Glutamin for recovery & to help reduce catabolism.

From Monday Im starting my split routine - will test it out for the week and adjust set volume accordingly to get the workout in within a 75min timeframe each day, as Ive got to balance gym workout from 6am & then University schedule

[KezR33]

IMO it had nothing to do with energy, determination and will but a lack of effort. If you can weight train for 2hrs you're simply not training hard enough.

I know extremely fit, strong guys who have been training for years, but given the right routine will be spewing in 10min.

[rev210]

Yeah cheers mate - 2hr workout today, did 4 sets of 10 Stiff Legged Deadlifts; couple times the right knee gave way out to the right (same way it used to dislocate) because I put a small range of movement into the joint with the hip thrust; must keep the knee joints dead straight. Noticed it was more work on the lower back. Form was ok, only 30kg but Im in no rush to smash out the Mass - prefer perfect form over mass given the risk of injury.

Next week I start a Split routine. Probably too much but will see a) how long it takes me, will only have say an hour from 6-7am pre-Uni, and b) how I feel about the exercises before changing it up too much.

GYM_Schedule.docx

Feel free to critique - cheers

Looks fine to start with as long as you find it enjoyable and interesting. That's the key for starting out. Boring = no motivation.

2hrs will get you fitness and cardio improvements if not anything else. If you haven't done much weights for a while muscles will grow for a bit regardless. There are much faster ways to do this if that's actually your goal but, being motivated early on matters so whatever works go for it.

The higher rep / lighter weight is good for learning form too (practice makes perfect). It's actually not a bad idea for any beginner or starting back from a long break.

At some point you need to drop the total number reps and activities each day/workout. As mentioned , there is a lot of over-training potentially in that workout if muscle growth is in mind. You actually don't need to do much at all to begin getting size/strength gains.

Keep the BCAA's, creatine & protien ( 70gms cut to 40gms post workout ,if that's the pure protein content of the powder) and I'd suggest give some Beta-Alanine a try later.

Get rid of the Jack3D and test-boosters bolocks and save your money for the car mods like you know you should ha ha...

Best basic hormone food is Zinc/magnesium/B6 coupled with the good quality protein sources and diet its all you need. $7 buys a bottle of 100 Cenovis brand from the supermarket. It works, plenty of proven research unfortunately the bottle doesn't have a big ZMA on it with some huge roid bloke posing. You can always print a sticker out for the bottle with the money you save. It also doesn't need estrogen blockers.

Hope the training goes well mate.

[Tangles]

TRUE, of course. Just building up into it; no point smashing massively heavy weights before I have each exercises 'form' sorted out. Next week will be the start for me, past month has simply been about getting back into it.

[rev210]

TRUE, of course. Just building up into it; no point smashing massively heavy weights before I have each exercises 'form' sorted out. Next week will be the start for me, past month has simply been about getting back into it.

ha ha... yep smashing heavy weights early on is no good. Not only can form suffer and injuries from that are common enough but, also unlike the muscles the tendon attachment points take longer to grow strength. Muscle strength can multiply beyond their capability.

As a thought to consider and I'm not sure what your weights background was previously..

you could keep bench press out of the picture early on till the shoulder girdle muscles are very strong. Ditto for the bicep and tricep stuff. Compound movements will develop them early and with good strength proportion.

Bench press is a rotator cuff destroyer for people with tiny shoulders and big triceps (actually a cuff destroyer period. Having a good base for it will see you lifting lots of weight later on and buddies at the gym wondering why you all of a sudden are benching much more and not hitting a wall at 130-140kg or whatever it usually is for you.

Back / abbs / shoulders / legs are all the majority of physios income. The weights blokes going in are usually back and shoulder issues (rotator cuff).

The first few months are the biggest challenge, keep it fun and regardless of how efficient or not the program is you will build a good habit that can be changed down the track to whatever.

[Tangles]

Exactly! I havent been doing bench or biceps (2 sessions out of the 21 Ive done so far have included bench press & bi curls); working on legs, lats, shoulders, back, & finishing off with tris & abs - chest & arms get a workout from the pull/push stuff Ive been doing. Used to lift age 19-23 at gym, then on/off at home for a few years. 1st time back lifting in over 5+yrs now that Im dealing with my knees as best as I ever have.

Seen what heavy weights (& shoulder cuff damage) have done to my brother (stop/start due to injury) so Id rather exercise with volume over mass at this stage.

Lol at benching 130+kgs - with my long long limbs that isnt exactly a goal of mine

Happy benching much lower weight and using the matrix method at this stage (5 full reps, 5 half up, 5 half down, 5 full) to involve all areas of the muscles & tendons.

Good advice Rev, cheers mate

[GHOSTrun]

IMO it had nothing to do with energy, determination and will but a lack of effort. If you can weight train for 2hrs you're simply not training hard enough.

I know extremely fit, strong guys who have been training for years, but given the right routine will be spewing in 10min.

Yes and no. If the goal is to spew it can be accomplished in a matter of minutes, that doesn't necessarily mean you've done any real work though, example could be an unfit person doing tabata thrusters with 2kg db's, pushing themselves for the whole 4 mins will usually result in spew, but they've been using 2kg db's....not much fibre recruitment going on there.

My squat sessions normally take 60-90 minutes, and I'm only doing 5 warmup sets and then 5 work sets of 10 reps. My goal is to complete the 5x10 with the desired weight, to do that I need at least 4-6 minutes rest for the first 3 sets and then 5-10mins rests for the sets after. This wasn't the case when the weight was lighter but I'm only a few kg's off doing 2x bw for 10 which is starting to get pretty hard. The other factor is that I'm an unfit slob, and if I don't let my lungs catch up between sets I do spew which is counterprdouctive for gaining weight.

With that said, after doing squats I am completely buggered. A few posts ago I asked about creatine and this is why, to see if it might allow me to do some extra work etc. It's not that I don't want to (because I do) but I'm just physically stuffed, so I can definitely see where your point about if "you can train for 2hrs you're not training hard enough" has merit

Edited February 5, 2012 by GHOSTrun

[rev210]

Lol at benching 130+kgs - with my long long limbs that isnt exactly a goal of mine

Happy benching much lower weight and using the matrix method at this stage (5 full reps, 5 half up, 5 half down, 5 full) to involve all areas of the muscles & tendons.

Good advice Rev, cheers mate

Ha ha... do the supporting muscles right , provided you are a tad heavier than 40kgs(well alot more ha ha.)then 130kg isn't a problem safely. The range of motion is less for a lanky character. Longer forearms sometimes means having the bar sit a hair off the chest isn't a good thing. If thats the genetics you have then you may not be able to 'compete' in bench power lifting but, you still may move some very heavy weights safely.

Static holds for bench work quite well for most people, with a little less shoulder risk. Due to large weight need spotters for it. But, bench press is all about being a hero and getting shoulder surgery or a torn pec ha ha....

Edited February 5, 2012 by rev210

[rev210]

This wasn't the case when the weight was lighter but I'm only a few kg's off doing 2x bw for 10 which is starting to get pretty hard. The other factor is that I'm an unfit slob, and if I don't let my lungs catch up between sets I do spew which is counterprdouctive for gaining weight.

With that said, after doing squats I am completely buggered. A few posts ago I asked about creatine and this is why, to see if it might allow me to do some extra work etc. It's not that I don't want to (because I do) but I'm just physically stuffed, so I can definitely see where your point about if "you can train for 2hrs you're not training hard enough" has merit

If you want to feel better it won't hurt doing a little cardio and my guess is your diet is shite also.

But, you can be unfit fatty and squat half a mountain if you have the muscles for it.

Question is ; What are the squats about? Do you want to get big strong legs from them?

If so then the 10 reps range is too many for a start, if you are an unfit fatty then running 50m could kill you ha ha... 2-6 reps mate . Assuming you have had some 'good' squat coaching. If not then pay for some, well spent money.

2-6 reps is good news for the lactic spew. You can also take big huge rests between sets and let the heart rate get back to rest. However long that is. If you are fit then not long and if not then a couple of sets could take a long time ha ha...

Supplement wise..

Creatine is helpful for a few reasons and will give you some more reps and assist recovery too. Beyond that the other supplement is Beta-Alanine. Beta-Alanine helps increase the production of carnosine and buffers muscle acidity.

But, you know what.. if your diet is full of crap and you are as you say totally unfit then forget buying them till you do the basics. Good Diet is 80% of the battle anyway.

[Trozzle]

[GHOSTrun]

If you want to feel better it won't hurt doing a little cardio and my guess is your diet is shite also.

But, you can be unfit fatty and squat half a mountain if you have the muscles for it.

Question is ; What are the squats about? Do you want to get big strong legs from them?

If so then the 10 reps range is too many for a start, if you are an unfit fatty then running 50m could kill you ha ha... 2-6 reps mate . Assuming you have had some 'good' squat coaching. If not then pay for some, well spent money.

2-6 reps is good news for the lactic spew. You can also take big huge rests between sets and let the heart rate get back to rest. However long that is. If you are fit then not long and if not then a couple of sets could take a long time ha ha...

Supplement wise..

Creatine is helpful for a few reasons and will give you some more reps and assist recovery too. Beyond that the other supplement is Beta-Alanine. Beta-Alanine helps increase the production of carnosine and buffers muscle acidity.

But, you know what.. if your diet is full of crap and you are as you say totally unfit then forget buying them till you do the basics. Good Diet is 80% of the battle anyway.

Hey mate, this is what my diet looks like

Meal 1

3 whole eggs scrambled + 3 rashers bacon

Glass of milk

Vitamin

6g fishoil

Meal 2

Protein shake

1-2 pieces of fruit - banana/apple/peach

Some almonds

Meal 3

1 cup brown rice + 200g tuna + 1 cup veg

Glass of milk

Meal 4

1 cup brown rice + 200g tuna + 1 cup veg

Glass of milk

Protein shake before training if I feel like one

Training

Protein shake straight after training

Meal 5

200-300g steak

3 whole eggs scrambled

Glass of milk

Vitamin

6g fishoil

Meal 6

Cottage cheese

Some almonds

For training, I worked up to a 1RM of 160kg @ 70 - http://youtu.be/rs4lR3LEaXU

and 140kg x 6 - http://youtu.be/GvEL9M2IObY

So then I went back to 120kg and started doing 5 sets of 10 reps, adding 2.5kg next session when I completed at least 3x10 and >7 reps for the last 2 sets.

Next session I use 132.5kg. I'll continue with this for a while as I'm really enjoying it and finding it brutally challenging.

When I refer to myself as a fat slob it's a bit sarcastic, most of my life I was single digit bodyfat naturally and used to win cross country at school, now I'm out of breath at the top of the stairs at work (2nd floor) and sit at 18% bf, necessary evil for getting bigger and stronger but still feels like shit being so unfit lol. When my gym moves closer to me I'm going to start going on tuesdays and thursdays for cardio which consists of kettlebell complexes, prowler push/pull, tyre flipping /all that shit etc designed to make you spew and get the lungs going.

Current training looks like this,

Monday, bench + upperbody stuff

Wednesday, Squats and powersnatches if I've got anything left to give

Friday, bench + upperbody stuff

Upperbody just isn't growing as much as I'd like it to though, both in size and strength. Not sure if I should be hitting it harder in the gym/more frequently, or just give it time as is. I've tried strength orientated programs for my bench, and it works but plateus. I think it's due to simply not having enough muscle mass to keep up with the work load, which is why I'm doing more volume to try and build some mass. Also why I'm looking into the creatine/similar etc cos current upperbody workload is piss poor. want to do loads more work but just have nothing left in the tank.

Current stats

height : 5'7

weight: 73-75kg

arms: 14"

legs: 25"

waist: 32"

[Tangles]

Diet looks good IMO. PM sent re: suggestion.