Gym And Supplement Discussion

[bozodos]

lol, I was going to insert a video here of Vicki squatting 110kg tonight, but I'm a little scared bozo might put his back out throwing the computer across the room

it might help get my numbers up

I noticed my gym has removed some of the free weights area to make room for "true grit" classes, I suppose at least they are using barbells and doing compounds... really wish they would get a second power cage / squat rack though.

Edited August 26, 2013 by bozodos

[L33SH]

I do grit, it's awesome

[markos]

Markos, I remember you saying not long ago that nothing you see amazes you anymore. I'm curious: what's the most impressive or amazing thing you've ever seen with regard to lifting?

Great question, but I was amazed last night.

Firstly, the hardest set I've ever witnessed was actually performed by an SAU forum member, Nick Rankin. He squatted 160kg x 20, no wraps no belt. He could easily have quit at 5, it was that hard. He hit every upright in the power rack, he was stumbling, I thought he would pass out, but he never quit.

Most impressive lift I saw in the gym was Max at 16 weighing 70kg, take out 125kg on his back like a squat, then jerk it overhead, behind his neck, stunned everyone. But next, he didnt dump the bar on the ground like most, he lowered it to his shoulders and re racked it, no belt, nothing. This was before he switched to powerlifting

Last night a guy from a Crossfit gym near town trained at PTC, he was there for over 3 hours, he foam rolled everything, including forearms, used bands to stretch every square inch of his body, it was amazing. The lifting he did was overhead squats with 25kg x 3 and push press from the rack with 25kg x 3. I've never seen anyone do less for longer

[No Crust Racing]

Crossfit dude might have been working on rehab/recovery? Weird otherwise.

Regarding the more's....

If I can get 8 reps out on sets 1 and 2 but say only 4-5 on set 3 (each set heavier than the one before it) and I see this trend for a good few sessions, am I "better" off (I know that's a loose term) doing more reps of the final set weight? The second set weight? A higher weight? etc.

At the moment, if I fail out at 4-5 on the final set I take a short break, then grab a few more reps at that weight, until I've done 8 total at that weight. Good approach to mores or would more weight be better?

I ask because for 3 sessions I've done the more sets at the same weight thing, to make sure I get 8 at that weight, but I'm not seeing a correspodning improvement in how many I can get out in one go on that final set, still topping out at 4-5, and I'm not racking it assuming failure on the 5th or 6th rep, I'm going for it and trying, getting half way or so, not making it, putting it on the safeties, crawling out, re-racking, going again.

I know effort is key, so im going to failure, when I take a 60sec break and can get out a few more reps, how should I go about them? Same weight, more, less etc.

[markos]

The problem I see with what your doing is tracking progress.

If your getting 8 on lighter sets then 5 on the only work set youre doing, thats not much work, is it?

I'd rather see bench - 80kg x 5,5,5 than bench 60kg x 8, 70kg x 8, 80kg x 5

[No Crust Racing]

Hmm fair enough, I only consider the first set to be a warm up and the next 2 to be "work".

Likewise though, If I was using the same weight on all 3 sets, and going 8, 8, 5 (or 5 5 3 in your example) would you then do a few more reps at the same weight to get the full 8 (5) reps up or would you add weight to push through that plateau?

The question is what to do when the endurance isn't there, that it,s you have the power to move the weight, but would like to move it more times in one go rather than stopping/starting.

What I've done in the past is move the final set weight to the second set and added weight for the last set above what I was doing before.

[Trozzle]

The problem I see with what your doing is tracking progress.

If your getting 8 on lighter sets then 5 on the only work set youre doing, thats not much work, is it?

I'd rather see bench - 80kg x 5,5,5 than bench 60kg x 8, 70kg x 8, 80kg x 5

Since you pointed out the whole MORE thing, I now completely understand why any sets at lighter weight prior to your working sets are a waste of time. I like to do one set at a fairly bitch weight just to see if there's any joint/muscle issues before I push out the working set, but only now do I truly realise that anything short of your working weight is doing nothing but burning calories (unless you push to ridiculous failure reps or something). It won't be promoting any kind of growth since it's not MORE.

IMO (as per your example Markos) - 60x 5-8; then 80x 5,5,5,3,3,etc to however many you wanna go lol. But no point wasting energy on the initial sets, since it's just calories that could've been put towards pushing MORE than last session.

[No Crust Racing]

Hmm.

Is the definition of "working set" considered to be the max weight you are currently doing on the exercise and anything else is considered warm up?

[Mitcho_7]

Since you pointed out the whole MORE thing, I now completely understand why any sets at lighter weight prior to your working sets are a waste of time. I like to do one set at a fairly bitch weight just to see if there's any joint/muscle issues before I push out the working set, but only now do I truly realise that anything short of your working weight is doing nothing but burning calories (unless you push to ridiculous failure reps or something). It won't be promoting any kind of growth since it's not MORE.

IMO (as per your example Markos) - 60x 5-8; then 80x 5,5,5,3,3,etc to however many you wanna go lol. But no point wasting energy on the initial sets, since it's just calories that could've been put towards pushing MORE than last session.

My thoughts exactly, I get into working sets ASAP.

[Trozzle]

My thoughts exactly, I get into working sets ASAP.

I take my sweet ass time coz I'm a big f**king girl.

Also Dan I dare say it depends on how many reps/sets you're aiming for, but regardless of whether it's 10x3 or 5x5 - whatever the max weight you can manage those reps and sets at would be your working weight. Which you WILL increase next session. Failing that, you know what to do (more reps or another set )

[markos]

If you like to ramp the weight up and reps down, which is fine if youre not interested in absolute strength gains, then a system I prefer is the pyramid but with "control" reps up and "everything you got" on the way down.

40kg x 5

60kg x 5

80kg x 5

100kg x 5

80kg x 11

60kg x 12

40kg x 12

[bozodos]

so what is the benefit of doing that sort of pyramid set then, or is it just a means to an end for making up volume?

[No Crust Racing]

Too many reps, take too long as I do a full body routine 3x a week so 3 sets is about all I have time for on each thing.

Squat, Bench, DL, Bent Row, Weighted Chins, Weighted Dips.

3x8 with 2min breaks takes about an hour.

Would there be much benefit in going 3x5 and going heavier? I'm happy to get stronger, but not looking to get any bigger or heavier (I have a race suit and seat that I need to fit in). I realise calorie intake is part of that.

Edited August 27, 2013 by ActionDan

[markos]

But its NOT 3 x 8 if you only do 1-2 work sets, 3 sets with the same weight is the correct way, 1-2 sets is crap if youre not going to absolute positive failure every set, and I know youre not doing that because you train alone.

A couple of sets at 80% is not enough work to improve unfortunately

[No Crust Racing]

What does positive failure mean? I am going til failure on the 3rd and any subsequent sets.

That is, I know I won't make another rep but I go for it and fail out on the way back up (using bench as example)

[markos]

Failure is a state of mind, too deep for this thread or forum even.

[No Crust Racing]

Ok...

Well I'm going to regular people failure on every set at the highest weight I do I do as many sets as needed to ensure I've done at least 8 reps at that weight, for every exercise.

But I see that I'm better off doing one warmup set and doing all my sets at that weight.

[Trozzle]

Failure is a state of mind, too deep for this thread or forum even.

Is it the point where quite simply put, the muscles you're pushing just switch off? As I've only pushed to what I'd consider absolute failure once or twice, and as an example one of these occasions was dumbbell press - the point at which I failed, my left arm was going to absolute jelly, shaking like crazy etc etc, then after what seemed like a lifetime (probably a few seconds of barely moving up, but not going down), it felt as though my arm just switched off and went limp, causing me to bounce the 34kg DB off my chest lol

Is that absolute failure? I mean, as far as I'm concerned without proper mental training there was no way I was completing that rep.

[No Crust Racing]

Conversation is too deep for this thread or forum.

[Trozzle]

MY ZEN AURA IS OF A SUFFICIENT LEVEL. I AM ONE WITH THE IRON. SPEAK TO ME OF THIS "FAILURE"