Gym And Supplement Discussion

[God_speed]

If I could go back I'd have gotten an early start on bench press while I was still young to balance it out.

Yer not to downplay 45kg as it took me some time to get to that, but for gym newbies it just doesn't sound like much when you compare it to core exercises like bench press, lateral exercises etc. further emphasising our point that isolation exercises don't need much weight particularly if it's a small muscle group.

Like a lot of us blokes I used to come into the gym and default to bench press and bicep exercises - not paying enough attention to triceps or lats... as you say, in hindsight you'd opt for a better balanced routine!

It's true it will raise your base metabolic rate because you burn through alot of energy when lifting and it will lose you some weight. Cardio is what really burns through the fat though. Combination of both will serve you well. Cardio also helps you to get through your workout easier and vice versa.

Both rugby and AFL players seem to put more emphasis on athleticism than brute strength these days.

As B said put more emphasis on the cardio, but you've got the right idea in not forgoing the weights altogether. Even though you're not training for strength, you can do weight training (45 min) followed by 20-30min cardio. The weight training done prior will continue to use up glycogen stores and burn calories even an hour after you've finished, whereas the more heart-rate-intensive cardio will tend to burn the calories nearer the time when you're doing it. This is one reason not to blindly believe the "Calories" readout on the cardio machine you're using as it doesn't tell the whole story. I've had great results by doing weights and cardio one after the other.

If you *are* trying to lose weight as a goal, then I suppose it is okay to do multiple exercises (as in a 'circuit' routine). Using lighter weights and minimal rest periods in between will get your heart rate going and encourage some fat loss (as in callisthenics). The goal would be to move from one station to the other with as little time in between as possible. I would probably still prefer to limit the number of muscle groups involved in one session though, and mix it up from session to session to provide some variety (necessary both for the body and for the mind in terms of motivation!). Having said that, doing leg exercises as part of your weights will help to burn fat quite effectively as they are a large muscle group and hence burn those calories well; while leg curls are good for the hammies, keep up those squats and lunges as they also incorporate some upper body to help provide more of a whole-body workout too. Use your trainer to make sure your squatting form is good otherwise you can do yourself some nasty injuries.

[gersfan]

took me ages reading the last page, some good info.

Most young guys started off in the gym working pecs and biceps right? I know I did, perhaps thats because I had no guidance though.

also agree on the delt training, really do not need much weight at all if you are trying to isolate them.

Question, how much weight do you guys use on a front raise for shoulders and what kind of form do you use?

Edited May 14, 2010 by gersfan

[Birds]

Not a huge fan of front raises, I always thought they'd be bad for the lower back and rotator cuff...that said I have a weird left shoulder that seems to pop out when it feels like it lol, so gauging that by my own retarded body. Anyone ever hurt themselves doing front raises?

[Turk1]

Yeah I don't really do front raises as I don't concentrate on them TOO much during my shoulder workouts as they kinda get trained from the chest workout as well. The only front raises I do are close grip but they are an exercise for traps, get a nice squeeze out of them

[tchard]

I love front raises... helps get shoulders nice an vascular...

[Bunta]

thanks guys, lots of great info there

[NZM.031]

yeh i do front raises... with 12kg dumbells.. do one arm simulataneously (spellcheck anyone??).. i find that if you do a two arm front raise... you have very little balance and your arms are locked in to the position which is a little unnatural as you get to the top of the movement...

Birds... this is probably why your shoulder popped out.... at the top of the movement, your rear delts kick in and your lats pull together... squeezing the shoulders out... doing one arm front raise allows your body to twist a little so your shoulder can handle lifting the weight to 90 degrees..

p.s. im also like you... skinny kid in school.... will never be a "big" guy.... wide back but fark all chest.. haha.

think about it... you cant swing your shoulder in a complete circle... it will swing fine by your side... but at some point it has to go wide when it is nearing 90 degrees and from there it will go out sideways until the joint allows it to come back in to your body... if your arms are locked on to a flat bar... where can they go???

but if you swing one arm... your body can twist a little and you can make that arm go in a perfect straight circle.

also, id like to share a piece of info that i only learned over the weekend... some people may know it, some people might not...

flexing and posing helps with muscularity and blood pump... say after doing a chest set... if you flex and hold a pose for a minute or two... it will help with muscle seperation and get more blood flowing to that area... how you flex and what you "pop" can make a big difference to the shape of your muscle as it grows.... this can be the difference between a sunken but wide and blocky pec, or a short, sharp, but bulbous pec.

cheers

Linton

[Birds]

Apologies Linton, I should have clarified that my shoulder pop is actually a naturally occurring rotator cuff dislocation thing that I've had since I was very young. It doesn't give me any trouble or pain (I can actually make it pop on purpose, good party trick), but I do avoid putting weight on it when the shoulder is in that particular position (i.e. arm near or above head and moving out to the side) and have never bothered to see if front raises affect it or not (I just assumed the exercise would interfere) for fear of damaging the joint.

Behind neck shoulder press is the only isolated shoulder exercise I do and for some reason this doesn't affect it - I'm guessing because the other arm keeps it balanced and strict as per using a barbell. Might try front raises both ways (simultaneous and alternating) with small weights and see which is better for me, but interestingly, I suspect your method would actually make it pop given the pop occurs when my arm moves out to the side pivoting away from the body. Two handed front raise on a barbell is probably worse for lower back but probably better for my retarded shoulder because it will keep the arm in line with the body as best it can.

*curses the asymmetric properties of the human body*

And yeah, agree on the flexing/posing front after sets. Seems to make sense. I imagine it prevents the muscle from tightening into something of a knot. Similar in effect to a wide range of motion.

[God_speed]

took me ages reading the last page, some good info.

Most young guys started off in the gym working pecs and biceps right? I know I did, perhaps thats because I had no guidance though.

also agree on the delt training, really do not need much weight at all if you are trying to isolate them.

Question, how much weight do you guys use on a front raise for shoulders and what kind of form do you use?

Don't do front raises these days, I need more focus on rear delts, just like you said I've worked the pecs and biceps too much in the past, relative to the back and tris. I will do side raises and overhead dumbell shoulder presses though.

*curses the asymmetric properties of the human body*

Yep. And I was just reading a respected bloke's article today about how your ratio of chest / leg girth should be around 1.7 or lower... Need to get back into the leg workouts more!

[Birds]

1.7 damn, I think I need to hit the leg weights too lol. Easily the most neglected muscle group!

Should add that my shoulder popped whilst I was cursing the assymetrical properties of the human body with my left arm...now that's irony.

[God_speed]

Okay, 1.7 is prob ambitious for the intermediate gym-goer (like me)?

0 to 1.7 Congratulations, you have thighs of death!

1.7 to 1.85 Great legs, nicely proportioned to your torso

1.85 to 2.0 Your legs are lagging a bit but not bad

>2.0 You have severe chicken-leg syndrome

Taken from this guy's website - love his work - explains things clearly and doesn't seem full of himself - doesn't have ads on his page or charge a membership, etc etc. so you get the sense he's motivated by helping people and his love of the sport, as opposed to making money.

http://scoobysworkshop.com/legs.htm

[Birds]

lol @ the possibility of a 1:1 ratio. Olympic sprinter much???!!!

[NZM.031]

zomg i luvs workin de legs!!! pity i have 8ft bean poles for legs.. i think they get longer, not wider...

[gersfan]

http://scoobysworkshop.com/legs.htm

This guy is great and I'd recommend all his videos to anyone. His vids were the first I ever used to get my form down and I'm glad I found these before others as his form is excellent. He obviously knows what he's doing, looks like he's got quite a big fanbase nowdays.

[Noskcid]

They dont work, have a Mate whos a PT, he doesn't suggest it to any of hes clients. I dont remember the reasoning, but a better diet will work better than these (in a healthy way)

[Birds]

They dont work, have a Mate whos a PT, he doesn't suggest it to any of hes clients. I dont remember the reasoning, but a better diet will work better than these (in a healthy way)

Wow thanks man, you've totally changed my perception of whatever it is you're talking about. Not only, but I will be looking to consult you for further advice on topics because of your connection to an expert in the field who has obviously learnt more in his certificate courses than all of us combined in our years of training. Care to elaborate some?!?!

Cheers.

[TUFF_350]

http://www.thepumpingstation.com/1repmax.html

A great little tool to help you workout what you should be lifting per set, ie 10reps warmup, 10reps touch heavier, 8 reps work set then 8 reps heaviest work set.

[IOWNU]

Got small shoulders?

Clean and Press= boulder shoulders.

Got small legs?

20 rep squats.

[666DAN]

Andy, what was working for me was a weights session and then straight into 20mins flat out on the punch bag.

Consistancy is the key and about 4 times a week is good, maybe break it up with weghts and a run one day on the weekend.

Either way I dropped 10+ kg in 3 months with this routine.

[TTT]

Wow thanks man, you've totally changed my perception of whatever it is you're talking about. Not only, but I will be looking to consult you for further advice on topics because of your connection to an expert in the field who has obviously learnt more in his certificate courses than all of us combined in our years of training. Care to elaborate some?!?!

Cheers.

he must have read the title, clicked it and just typed reply instead of reading 44 pages