What Makes A Car Appealing To You?

[Roy]

Everytime i go through youtube i cant help but look up vids of cars like the Ultima GTR, TVRs and Lotus Exiges etc etc. To me a sports car should be appealing to a driver and involving to drive.

So, looking though what is beign offered by manufacturers these days, i have to say i love what the small niche Brit manufacturers like Ultima, Lotus and Noble are doing. They seem to be the only guys still making light drivers cars, not thinkgs with electronic trickery for every occassion and gear change.

Am i the only person frustrated by the trend of modern sportscars...or are the manufacturers simply giving us what the masses want. Intelligent cars that are very smart that do a lot of the work for you?

[MK2]

I don't particually like a lot of the well, for a lack of a better term 'invasive' technology which is in cars, the Anti: Yaw/sway/stability, traction control and so on really doesn't do much for me at all. It has it's place I think and the 'engineer on weekdays' side of MK's brain acknowledge it's very clever and benefits some aspects for some people, but the 'dumb as a hammer bogan' part of MK says I'm just not one of those people.

My current car is about the extreme limit of what I like to be technically comfortable with all it's multiple LSDs, transaxel, AWS, AWD, twin turbo V6 ridiculousness and it's had a lot of the "options" ripped out of it to make a bit more of a pure drivers car. I'll never own an automatic transmission, which these days are getting more and more clever as well because I don't want it thinking it knows how to change gears better than me either.

Maybe that's vanity, maybe just stubborn, dumb pride but after 20 years of driving I'd like to think I know a few things which a lump of silicon, gold and semiconductors hasn't quite figured out just yet.

When alls said and done, if they do figure out how to make every new car which is better than me as a driver in every single way, it'll be a very dull drive and I'll go buy a go-cart or motorbike to amuse myself when I do drive. It's sort of a shame a lot of people seem to consider driving such a boring activity they feel the car should do things they would normally do so they can do 'what' exactly in the car while they sit in it?

Because ultimately when you're behind the wheel of a car, you are there to drive it. You're not there to sip coffee, go to work, whack off or talk on your mobile phone, your job is to drive, if you're not getting behind the wheel to drive, then catch public transport with all the other people that aren't drivers.

[scathing]

I'm indecisive.

I really like the Evo, with its near-perfect drivetrain (if it had the ability to send 100% of the power to any one wheel then it would be perfect) and the fact that the thing is devastatingly quick. I'd set it up a bit differently since I prefer tarmac driving, so I'd have a 0:100 split like a GT-R in "normal" conditions" but the fact that the S-AYC actively torque splits across both axes whereas ATTESSA only actively splits front to rear is what takes the post for me.

The driveline doesn't take away from your ability to drive (or f**k up), like traction or stability control. It just makes better use of what the car's got and extends the limits of the car, rather than locking them to an artificially low point.

At the same time, every time I see an Elise I think about selling my tugboat and buying one. I like the fact that it feels amazing to drive and does what its told, and is driving at its most pure (short of an Atom or Caterham) while still being daily drivable (if it had a roof that didn't take half an hour and a scout's badge to set up, it would also be perfect).

[esky_mad]

I don't particually like a lot of the well, for a lack of a better term 'invasive' technology which is in cars, the Anti: Yaw/sway/stability, traction control and so on really doesn't do much for me at all. It has it's place I think and the 'engineer on weekdays' side of MK's brain acknowledge it's very clever and benefits some aspects for some people, but the 'dumb as a hammer bogan' part of MK says I'm just not one of those people.

My current car is about the extreme limit of what I like to be technically comfortable with all it's multiple LSDs, transaxel, AWS, AWD, twin turbo V6 ridiculousness and it's had a lot of the "options" ripped out of it to make a bit more of a pure drivers car. I'll never own an automatic transmission, which these days are getting more and more clever as well because I don't want it thinking it knows how to change gears better than me either.

Maybe that's vanity, maybe just stubborn, dumb pride but after 20 years of driving I'd like to think I know a few things which a lump of silicon, gold and semiconductors hasn't quite figured out just yet.

When alls said and done, if they do figure out how to make every new car which is better than me as a driver in every single way, it'll be a very dull drive and I'll go buy a go-cart or motorbike to amuse myself when I do drive. It's sort of a shame a lot of people seem to consider driving such a boring activity they feel the car should do things they would normally do so they can do 'what' exactly in the car while they sit in it?

Because ultimately when you're behind the wheel of a car, you are there to drive it. You're not there to sip coffee, go to work, whack off or talk on your mobile phone, your job is to drive, if you're not getting behind the wheel to drive, then catch public transport with all the other people that aren't drivers.

please excuse the complete off topicness, but noticed the twin turbo V6 and thought hmm sounds like GTO, then look at your avatar. nice to know some more people love the beautiful tanks.

end rant.

[Yo-Yo]

Give me RWD and a manual stick,

make sure it stops goes and turns well and I'm set.

oh and maybe aircon for those muggy days

[alexk]

The feel of a good chassis is what i enjoy more than anything about a car , then the engine. All these modern electronically controlled cars with traction control, ESP, etc take a huge chunk away of that feel.

[MBS206]

Smooth curves usually...

It's got have looks, either smooth and fast flowing, or it has to have a very mean presence on the road.

That, and it has to have either sheer muscle, to tear the doors off of nearly anything in a straight line, or a good broad range of torque across nearly the whole reve range, with a very refined suspension setup.

RWD, as I'm anti FWD and anti AWD, traction control and launch control for fun, and shits and giggles, but purely, turn them off most of the time to have some real fun.

Edit: And most of the time, I find the electrical gizmos are a bitch to learn to drive with. They interupt what you expect, so you have to learn that very car to take it to its realy high limits.

Edited January 11, 2008 by MBS206

[nice 28]

I think sports cars should be involving with the driver as Roy said, but I also think adjustability is good.

For example a RWD/AWD switch for a different feel when you drive.

Maybe even a different tune on the ECU that you can change so that you can adjust it so the car is laggy or has heaps of power and torque down low.

But yeah anything where you can adjust the car so it responds differently depending how you drive it is the goods for me.

[dangerous_daveo]

Well I like all the tech stuff, its all fancy. But give me a car where its 100% down to the driver, and it does handle, does have a bit of poke, and does stop. It has to be enjoyable.

That said, I think the MAIN thing a sports car needs is looks. If a sports car doesnt look like one it isnt, its just a big donk in something else. And good looks need flowing lines (which a number of sports cars dont have, they do tick every other box...) Flowing sleek lines where they dont just stop, and cross over. Where you can look at the car from any angle and see the same flowing line. If it doesnt have that, its a pointless car.

[nice 28]

Depends though.

I'd hardly call a cv6 monaro a sports car.

Yes it does look nice, but underneath it's another commodore v6 or what not.

But i guess that's what we've come to in this day and age. Most people recognise a sports car by what it looks like, and they could have barely any clue to what's under the bonnet.

And it also depends on what we need the car for. With the orignal question being "What makes a car appealing to you?" it can be many things from us needing a gas-guzzling v8, to needing a toyota prius.

But on the topic of sports cars i guess looks is always a factor, as we cannot take our cars to the limits on everyday driving, but for a track/race car, i wouldn't care less about looks. I would drive a gemini, as long as it could whip a mega-buck gt3 porsche.

But in the end we're all looking for different things in a car.

I might like wrx's for example, the fact that it is a four-door with a note from an aftermarket exhaust that can't be matched, but you might not, because in many ways it resembles a family car with a turbo.

[Roy]

The driveline doesn't take away from your ability to drive (or f**k up), like traction or stability control. It just makes better use of what the car's got and extends the limits of the car, rather than locking them to an artificially low point.

Rather then extend the limits of the car, i see FWD, AWD and RWD as simply having different strengths. For instance i dont think the constant AWD platforms will ever match a rwd car on high speed flowing bends corners. But really that is on a track, as the sure footedness of AWD on the street at speed will be a great bonus to keep up your sleeve should road conditions throw a curve ball at you.

I suppose in the name of safety, technology has to dumb down drivers inputs and do some work for us. But i cant help but think that the newer cars do a lot of the work for you, which to me takes away from the pride of getting right in a more traditional car like a Ultima etc. (Albeit you will be as slow as often as you are quick as the cars are not that consistant)

[swanny180]

I suppose in the name of safety, technology has to dumb down drivers inputs and do some work for us. But i cant help but think that the newer cars do a lot of the work for you, which to me takes away from the pride of getting right in a more traditional car like a Ultima etc. (Albeit you will be as slow as often as you are quick as the cars are not that consistant)

This basically is my view.

I have no false beliefs as to the fact that in all likeliness, if you take car like an EVO, you will be faster 99% of the time with all its electronic driver aids helping you out, than what you will be without.

But!! Although you might be faster with driver aids, I think driving a car quickly and well without them makes for a far more rewarding experience.

Think about it in terms of playing a video game. You play your favourite shoot em up with auto aim turned on.

Yeah youre running around, aiming in the general direction of your enemies, but the computer automatically snaps the aim onto them to cover for your error.

Turning auto aim off though, you need to do all the work yourself.

Similarly, you probably wont do as well as if you had auto aim turned on, but its just not rewarding the same way, and dulls the actual experience with the aid turned on...

Edited January 11, 2008 by swanny180

[siksII]

Ill try and keep it simple, i could go on for pages!

In rough order:

Good steering feel

Good brake feel

Chassis that provides stable and predictable handing

Enough power to allow for adjustable handling

Reliability in hard use

Looks

Engine note

[VB-]

what makes a car appealing to me? the way it makes me feel when i drive it, if its ugly, slow, doesnt turn or stop well, sounds like ass, it doesnt matter, as long as i'm having fun. some of the best times i've had in cars were in absolute shitboxes, just things you can thrash without a care in the world

thats another thing, something your not affraid to go hard in, by that i mean something your not scared of damaging/blowing up, i DO NOT mean something that gives you more confidence than ability. i see alot of people with nice cars, R34's, rex's, and they all drive like women (no offence ladies ) and i tell em, go just give it a bit around this corner here.... then im usually met with "no wtf are you stupid, have you got 30 grand to buy m a new car if i smash it blah blah blah" like they are really offended i said it.

ahhh the joys of owning a minispooled VL..... it serves me well, and although it could do with an extra 100kw, its brakes, while technically they 'work', they dont do there job very well, handling rivalling that of the titanic.... post-iceberg, and its as ugly as sin with most of the paint peeling off, its something i can still have fun in

[Roy]

I say more of this rather then this

[scathing]

For instance i dont think the constant AWD platforms will ever match a rwd car on high speed flowing bends corners.

Would you class a non-symmetric AWD system (such as the Evo's) as "constant"? Its not like a GT-R where there's a possibility of a 0% front torque split, but it still dynamically adjusts the split depending on the data from the sensors.

An Evo probably won't be as stable as a GT-R around your high speed flowing bends, but that would be more because of the car's shorter wheelbase and more rally-oriented setup than a fundamental flaw of the Evo's drivetrain itself.

[Ant97GTR]

Great topic Roy ...and you listed one of my fav cars the Noble...mmm M12 goodness

Fundamentally for me the car has to have balance....the car has to have the power matched to the handling and on top of that it has to look good. All and all it has to be involving to drive and put a smile of my face everytime I drive it.

As for all the electronic gadgets....there is no question that they are there raise the limits of the car but also to make that limit more accessible to the average driver....after all it doesn't make good advertizing that the new supercar is killing its owners. However how much these gadgets interfere with the drive is the key, which is why I'll alway rate my gtr over any evo. Put simply I still need to think about how much to brake/what my corner speed should be etc etc...if I don't the car IS going to bite me. The evo however does all this thinking for you up until a stupidly high level.

As a result I will always choose an F40 or MacF1 over the majority of current supercars....I might be going slower but I'll have a bigger smile on my face

[TezGT-R]

Feel is very important for sure. Ive had awesome times trashin crappy $500 bombs, but nothing will come close to the feel of a well honed sports car

[PHATR32]

yes, i beleive all this electronic controll crap takes the fun out of driving, and personally i can do with out it.

if its a car for the missis, then yes, make it as comfy and safe as possible.

Ill use my r32 as an example, its loud, suspension is hard so you can feel everything, the diff clunks around tight corners, the clutch is heavy, the seats are hard, it drinks fuel, basically its a pain in the ass to drive, but, I love the f**king thing and i cant see my self wanting to drive anything else at the moment. I dont know why i like it so much, but i do.

steve

[TezGT-R]

yes, i beleive all this electronic controll crap takes the fun out of driving, and personally i can do with out it.

if its a car for the missis, then yes, make it as comfy and safe as possible.

Ill use my r32 as an example, its loud, suspension is hard so you can feel everything, the diff clunks around tight corners, the clutch is heavy, the seats are hard, it drinks fuel, basically its a pain in the ass to drive, but, I love the f**king thing and i cant see my self wanting to drive anything else at the moment. I dont know why i like it so much, but i do.

steve

X 2

sounds like you've been drivin my car dude....