I'm Over Jap Cars

[Bond]

if i got a 4wd it would be a range rover sport, they are awsome!

Another status symbol (not sure why cause they are shit...just look at the resale value after a couple of years!!)

You would not get very far offroad in a RR sport!!!!

[Phatboy]

2nd hand

Patrol weak???!!! You must be talking about the 3 litre. Get a nice 2nd hand 4.2lt GU and you're set!! Or get a late model 100 series cruiser. Neither are weak, and compared to the hummer will be more reliable, better off road and mroe comfortable.

Kinda over the secondhand thing as most of LC100s and GUs have had their share of abuse in the bush, and might be days away from cracking their diffs. I want something still under warranty, and which looks like it was made this millenium.

A Patrol is far from weak!!!! What about the 4.8 petrol they are great and can be put on lpg.

4.8L petrol in 2.5 ton 4WD = $$$$ for petrol. H3 engine makes same power but is only 3.7L.

Also for 60k H3 adventure has rear locking diffs standard (essential for tackling the bush), whereas neither the Patrol nor Cruiser offer them even as options at any price.

if i got a 4wd it would be a range rover sport, they are awsome!

im pretty sure they are expensive, im just not sure how much.

Range Rovers look nice and are the ultimate Toorak Tractors, but they break down very quickly. They are the LEAST reliable marque out of all car makers in the world. 90k down the drain.

[Phatboy]

The other alternative his looking at is the Toyota Prado GX or GXL diesel.

EDIT: & my mum is looking at buying a BMW 335 or M3, due to the Asian + doctor thing.

I also considered the Prado... but it just wasn't designed for offroading like the others. Pajero is good, Mitsu have been using them for the Dakar rallys in the past, but they are a bit small.

i' probably buy an ss wagon and mod it....

SS wagons are the bargains of the decade and look dead sexy. I would buy one today if I didn't need to go offroading. There is almost a half-year waiting list last time I checked. For a Holden wagon!

$48k for a new 270kw super-wagon almost able to keep up with the $300k Audi RS6, BMW M5 touring, Merc E63 AMG Estate is mind-blowing. There is something about a huge V8 (which can be easily super/turbocharged to around 500kw for 10-15k) with enough room for 5 adults and all their camping gear that just makes sense. Wagons also seem to fly under the cop radar no matter how insane they are ie., Stags.

[Phatboy]

EDIT: & my mum is looking at buying a BMW 335 or M3, due to the Asian + doctor thing.

Whoa I just read that. I can understand the asian doctor thing, but she must be the only FEMALE asian doctor to own an M3. Being burnt off the lights by your own mum must suck

The new M3 sedan is HOT! Would be an awesome family car. Damn, wish I had Jay Leno's garage for all the cars I want

[bombtrack]

removed because of double post

[bombtrack]

Another status symbol (not sure why cause they are shit...just look at the resale value after a couple of years!!)

You would not get very far offroad in a RR sport!!!!

It'd pull my skyline to the track in style though!

As far as offroad in RR sport though, there is nothing wrong with the discovery platform (which is what the sport has). On top of that I've completed some pretty hairy climbs/descents in a '96 RR, enough that I have a decent amount of confidence in an RR/LR. I will accept that the electronics in LR/RR's has always been shithouse though, and it is unfortunate that the suspension relies pretty heavily on the electronics.

EDIT: sorry bout the double post, my connection farted.

[Bond]

Phatboy you really need to do some research on 4wd because from your replies you know about this much ==>0

Cracking diffs ahhahahahaah thats the funiest thing ever.

By the way the H3 is smaller than both LC and GU so if your after a large spacious 4wd you are looking in the wrong place!!!

Also they make the same power but the 4.8 makes a sh!t load more torque and lower in the rev range which is whats important when 4wdring.

Dont even talk fuel economy when speaking about petrol 4wd's. You cant afford the fuel then dont buy one or put it on gas.

Locking diffs esential for 4wdriving HAHAHAHAHAAH your an idiot mate. I will take you up some hills you cant even walk up in my patrol that has no lockers.....only the best factory LSD on the market!!!

Also lockers are a factory option on landcruisers just not all of them but as i said above they are not needed. Patrols used to have rear lockers as an option but their lsd is good enough.

[Phatboy]

Phatboy you really need to do some research on 4wd because from your replies you know about this much ==>0

Cracking diffs ahhahahahaah thats the funiest thing ever.

By the way the H3 is smaller than both LC and GU so if your after a large spacious 4wd you are looking in the wrong place!!!

Also they make the same power but the 4.8 makes a sh!t load more torque and lower in the rev range which is whats important when 4wdring.

Dont even talk fuel economy when speaking about petrol 4wd's. You cant afford the fuel then dont buy one or put it on gas.

Locking diffs esential for 4wdriving HAHAHAHAHAAH your an idiot mate. I will take you up some hills you cant even walk up in my patrol that has no lockers.....only the best factory LSD on the market!!!

Also lockers are a factory option on landcruisers just not all of them but as i said above they are not needed. Patrols used to have rear lockers as an option but their lsd is good enough.

How much serious offroading do you actually do? Of course stock 4wds can go up hills people can't walk up. Can you walk up a 45deg hill with no hand supports? Lockers may not be essential for off-roading for some people in less challenging areas, but it would be essential for me, as I want my 4WD to be completely prepared for every eventuality and be able to handle almost anything, and they give me that piece of mind. I don't want to risk stranding myself and family out in the middle of nowhere because I skimped out on diff locks. LSDs are fine but I fail to see how they can possibly beat diff locks mechanically. Why do you think ARB air lockers are so popular with the Cruiser/Patrol crowd. I have not seen any serious off-road 4wd without lockers. Not to say that I want a competition vehicle, but virtually all 4WDs in competitions have diff locks.

As I said, I am not sold on the H3 yet - just looks like it is the best one available at the moment. I was just reading about the 2010 Patrol and that it should have a better diesel engine ie., could be a V8TD like the LC200, and hopefully will stay around the current patrol's price range. That would be a great deal.

When I said cracked diffs I meant damaged diff casings (and I guess diffs if they are really jumped and dropped) from too much rigorous offroading, especially when scraping over rocks etc with not enough ground clearance. I think the cruiser also has some probs with diffs

http://www.exploroz.com/Forum/Topic/39038/...rbo_diesel.aspx

4th reply

http://4x4galore.com/2008/06/17/landcruise...ifs-weak-diffs/

http://www.exploroz.com/Forum/Topic/12707/...ondtioning.aspx

Diff locks were available for previous serious landcruisers, but not the current ones.

[Bond]

I'm not in the mood to argue with someone who sounds like they have never actually owned a 4wd or been off a sealed road for more than a km or 2!!

Besides driving my patrol around the country i also work in remote areas of australia and all of our transport is via 4wd so i get a fair bit of experience in various makes and models as well as seeing what other people are touring in. I can tell you that a H3 is not one of them.

Lockers are great but a tight LSD is better for some1 who rarely see hard to extreme tracks. An LSD is always active, hardly affects steering and is used onroad where you spend 99% of the time. Of the 15+ people i regulary go 4wdriving with only 2 have lockers. The only time they get somewhere i cant is up very steep rocky terrain where multiple wheels are off the ground at the same time, otherwise they dont do much except increase your turning circle. Lockers actually hinder your 4wd on sand as it promots the inside wheel to dig in and get bogged whilst turning.

If you want to learn about the strengths of certain 4wd just go to any 4wd racing event (Outback challenge, Vic winch, alpine challenge and Various Nav runs) and 18 out of 20 will always be Patrols. Thats because they are just plain tough!!! Look at the power the Arabs are running through their turbo 4.8's on totally standard gear box's, transfer cases and diffs.

Lockers tend to get inexperienced people into more trouble rather than keeping them out of it!!! Once your bogged with lockers engaged your stuffed. A much better option is a steel bull bar and a winch. The bar not only houses the winch but also lets you drive out of remote areas after hitting a roo at 100km/hr!! The winch gets you out of places when no one is around

If you really want to learn a thing or two visit www.outerlimits4x4.com You will see what people get around in....defenately not H3's!!!!

Anyway i dont think i can sway the mind of a keyboard swinging internet warrior. Have fun going bush and getting stuck in your H3. I can give you my number and i can some tow you out when you realise your lockers aint going to save you.

Cheers

Gee i ramble on and its not even on topic........My vote for Jap cars. Cant get any better when it comes to 4wd's

[Bond]

By the way Landcruisers still have factory diff locks as an option but its not available on the 200 series as it uses a lot of electronics with its traction control and a locker is not required..........there is more than 1 kind of landcruiser.

[Phatboy]

I'm not in the mood to argue with someone who sounds like they have never actually owned a 4wd or been off a sealed road for more than a km or 2!!

Besides driving my patrol around the country i also work in remote areas of australia and all of our transport is via 4wd so i get a fair bit of experience in various makes and models as well as seeing what other people are touring in. I can tell you that a H3 is not one of them.

Lockers are great but a tight LSD is better for some1 who rarely see hard to extreme tracks. An LSD is always active, hardly affects steering and is used onroad where you spend 99% of the time. Of the 15+ people i regulary go 4wdriving with only 2 have lockers. The only time they get somewhere i cant is up very steep rocky terrain where multiple wheels are off the ground at the same time, otherwise they dont do much except increase your turning circle. Lockers actually hinder your 4wd on sand as it promots the inside wheel to dig in and get bogged whilst turning.

If you want to learn about the strengths of certain 4wd just go to any 4wd racing event (Outback challenge, Vic winch, alpine challenge and Various Nav runs) and 18 out of 20 will always be Patrols. Thats because they are just plain tough!!! Look at the power the Arabs are running through their turbo 4.8's on totally standard gear box's, transfer cases and diffs.

Lockers tend to get inexperienced people into more trouble rather than keeping them out of it!!! Once your bogged with lockers engaged your stuffed. A much better option is a steel bull bar and a winch. The bar not only houses the winch but also lets you drive out of remote areas after hitting a roo at 100km/hr!! The winch gets you out of places when no one is around

If you really want to learn a thing or two visit www.outerlimits4x4.com You will see what people get around in....defenately not H3's!!!!

Anyway i dont think i can sway the mind of a keyboard swinging internet warrior. Have fun going bush and getting stuck in your H3. I can give you my number and i can some tow you out when you realise your lockers aint going to save you.

Cheers

Gee i ramble on and its not even on topic........My vote for Jap cars. Cant get any better when it comes to 4wd's

Well, as you might have gleaned from my posts... I actually prefer the Cruiser and Patrol, but the H3 was suitable for my budget because it was cheaper for better equipment levels. I never said it was better than Patrols/Cruisers, and I would be a fool to. As I said, now that the 2010 Patrol looks like a go-er, I will wait for that instead of getting the H3.

I never claimed to have as much off-road experience as yourself. As you can probably expect, this will be the first real "true" 4WD I will buy - that's why I have tried to do research over the last year or so. However, I know people who are serious offroaders and have been on a few rough tracks with them, where most of the 4wds have had lockers by necessity due to crappy terrain. What I like about lockers is you can toggle them on and off from the dashboard, so you can only stand to gain from more options.

In addition to front and rear lockers, I plan on getting winch/bull bar/recovery equipment anyway, as well as hilift-jacks, suspension lifts, 35" ATs, HF/UHF, long-rang fuel/water tanks, snorkel, lights, racks, etc - all the recommended stuff, maybe a chip as well. The reason I like 4WDs is that they are like Jap imports - almost limitless freedom to mod, and usually attract less attention from cops. The equipment is a safety net. It's there to help me get out of trouble, even though hopefully most of the time I won't have to use them.

By the way Landcruisers still have factory diff locks as an option but its not available on the 200 series as it uses a lot of electronics with its traction control and a locker is not required..........there is more than 1 kind of landcruiser.

True the 70 series has optional lockers.. but not exactly the type of landcruiser I am after. It's for a family, not for work.

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

lol @ "4wd'ing" in an H3

[RNGTR]

SS wagons are the bargains of the decade and look dead sexy. There is almost a half-year waiting list last time I checked. For a Holden wagon!

Ummm.. theres two at my local dealership right now, Red Auto SSV & Karma Manual SSV..... ready for deliverly.

Speaking of, these a new Clubsport Touring wagon in my street..... Me likey.

[Blitz_boy]

/

Edited February 20, 2009 by Blitz_boy

[BeEnAr]

leaf spring rear is not acceptable in a modern 4wd (aka H3) even the patrol ute came with a full coil option! in the high country if you buy it!! All I saw up there last time was Patrols, Cruisers (80s & 100s) and landrovers. All the cruisers and Patrols we were with had bars winches, lift kits and decent tyres etc, not one of them had lockers and not one of em had a problem even in the snow covered steepies!

Get tried and proven not new and optioned!

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

i dont get this argument.....

were talking about off road usage.... WTF are we even discussing h3's?

patrol FTW

[Bond]

In addition to front and rear lockers, I plan on getting winch/bull bar/recovery equipment anyway, as well as hilift-jacks, suspension lifts, 35" ATs, HF/UHF, long-rang fuel/water tanks, snorkel, lights, racks, etc - all the recommended stuff, maybe a chip as well.

Phatboy you have just proved that you are a yuppy that wants a 4wd with all the add ons to try and impress just like the ongoing theme in this thread. You wont know what to do with most of that equipment and probably your mates that told you to buy them wouldnt know either.

You want a hard core 4wd with twin lockers but then u want AT tyres ????? You want a safe 4wd for your family but you want to lift it and fit 35" tyres....you ever driven a lifted 4wd with big tyres??? Didnt think so.

Why do you want a long range tank when a cruiser holds around 180l standard??? Where do u intend on driving???

Go out and buy a 4wd but leave it standard and get the factory bar and winch and u will get endless hours of fun and not get yourself into too much trouble. If you actually want real advice feel free to PM me. People actually get seriously injured and die from 4wd accidents and i'm not even talking about crashing. Ever seen what a snach strap looks like when it snaps with a shackle on the end/??

[d_33vl_1]

^^ pics!!

just read the heading of this thread and then last page

soooo whatsthis thread about

[Phatboy]

Phatboy you have just proved that you are a yuppy that wants a 4wd with all the add ons to try and impress just like the ongoing theme in this thread. You wont know what to do with most of that equipment and probably your mates that told you to buy them wouldnt know either.

You want a hard core 4wd with twin lockers but then u want AT tyres ????? You want a safe 4wd for your family but you want to lift it and fit 35" tyres....you ever driven a lifted 4wd with big tyres??? Didnt think so.

Why do you want a long range tank when a cruiser holds around 180l standard??? Where do u intend on driving???

Go out and buy a 4wd but leave it standard and get the factory bar and winch and u will get endless hours of fun and not get yourself into too much trouble. If you actually want real advice feel free to PM me. People actually get seriously injured and die from 4wd accidents and i'm not even talking about crashing. Ever seen what a snach strap looks like when it snaps with a shackle on the end/??

> No, if I was a yuppy who wants a 4WD I would get a Range Rover Vogue. In your own words, that is the 4WD people buy to show off.

As I said earlier, the reason I am getting this equipment is so that I can access places that I otherwise would not, and be able to get out of tough spots that I otherwise would not. If I was the showy kind of person I could have easily cosmetically modded my R34 GTR to the max - but I chose to keep it entirely standard from the outside, even the wheels.

> I don't want to have to swap MT and road tyres, that's why I want AT.

> An LC200 in GXL guise has 138L (93L main and 45L subtank. In VX and Sahara with KDSS (which are the models I want due to leather seats, satnav, etc) only the 93L exists.

> I intend to get a recovery damper for the winches. When would you use a snatch strap instead of a winch?

[Phatboy]

Ummm.. theres two at my local dealership right now, Red Auto SSV & Karma Manual SSV..... ready for deliverly.

Speaking of, these a new Clubsport Touring wagon in my street..... Me likey.

That's good to hear. Last time (Dec 08) I asked at Alan Mance they said they wouldn't get more stock until Apr 09.

The clubby wagon looks great. 317kw = better to battle the uber-expensive euro wagons with.

Edited February 20, 2009 by Phatboy