S13 Rb26 Help For 600whp Project!

[Swiper the Fox]

Thank you very much for your help guys!!

Are you sure that I can do 10.5 with 350rkw?

Without any wheigh reduction and without drag slicks (small drag greek category rules)??

I can run only street drag tires like Mickey Thompson Et Street!

255/60/15 is good?

So it is better to leave the stock rods with arp bolts or to go for eagle?

I don't have money for more expensive rods than eagle

Ok no walbro.. so what?

Can I run with one big internal pump or I need two pumps?

Stock fuel pipes are ok?

Also I read that the last injector don't has enought fuel.. I need to moddify my rail for two fuel feeds from both sides and the drain in the middle of the rail?

I did a 10.3 with 390KW on Mickey Thompson Street radials (1474kg car weight without driver) so you may need a tad more than 350KW or a lighter car than ours.

Id go stock rods with ARP's, dont buy stuff you dont need

An intank Bosch motorsport 044 will run 350KW (just) Stock fuel pipes are ok, but if you run two pumps (recommended) use the stock fuel lines (feed and return) to feed the twin entry fuel rail and run a 5/8 braided return line (this is my set-up using two 044's and an 040 lift pump...good for over 500KW at the tyres)

hope this helps

[GreeceS13]

DiRTgarage you mean 390 WKW? You was awd or rwd?

I don't need full system for just 350kw and to afraid to blow-up!

You mean this?? So, I will put the 44's on the hood area?

And why to buy 2 external 44? They are very expensive.. I can do my work with two external walbros right?

The fuel lines are ok? You said stock feed and return... then you said 5/8 return??

This setup doesn't work? This is what I thought in my mind... many engineers here in Greece did this... but maybe they don't know what they do!

[Swiper the Fox]

When i refer to KW for GTR's i always talk in all wheel KW.

An 044 runs out of flow at about 360AWKW...thus you have hardly any "headroom" at 350AWKW. Use a boot mounted surge tank to feed the 044's fuel and return your fuel to this surge tank, then run an overflow back to the main tank. A small lean out due to lack of fuel can cost you an engine....do the fuel set-up properly...it may save you $$$ in the long run.

[GreeceS13]

Mate so this is better??

With this fuel system I cannot use 3 walbro pumps? One lift (that I have) and two externals from surge tank to each side of the fuel rail!

They aren't enought?

Two walbros external has total feed 510litres per hour!!!! :|

If it isn't enought the walbro for lift pump ok I can change it to a bosch 40 or 44!

What do you think?

Edit: A mistake in my scheme The light green pumps are external right?

Edited January 22, 2008 by GreeceS13

[zebra]

Just put the surge tank and fuel pumps in the boot.....saves it from engine bay heat and you will have more room to move.

Edited January 22, 2008 by zebra

[GreeceS13]

In the boot??? And with what lines (feed and return) it will work? With stocks?

So why to buy surge tank external pumps, lift pump etc... Why to don't use 2 internal pumps?

[Adriano]

Dirtgarage is saying to use the original feed line from one 044, and the original return line as a feed for the other 044 to the other end of the fuel rail, then a 5/8 braided(i assume this is O.D.) as a return

[Swiper the Fox]

Dirtgarage is saying to use the original feed line from one 044, and the original return line as a feed for the other 044 to the other end of the fuel rail, then a 5/8 braided(i assume this is O.D.) as a return

yep

surge tank can be mounted in boot or a custom flat one can be bolted under car

why dont i like walbro pumps...there cheap shit IMO

[R31Nismoid]

In the boot??? And with what lines (feed and return) it will work? With stocks?

So why to buy surge tank external pumps, lift pump etc... Why to don't use 2 internal pumps?

Use the stock lines. Nothing wrong with them

Use the stock FPR as well. No need to buy another.

[GreeceS13]

Ok guys I understand... but so why to have a surge tank??

The following scheme will not work right??? No surge... two pumps for 600liter per hour both.... one line feed to each pump.. a big return....!

I read that when you put a walbro to a skyline it need fpr aftermarket because the stock cannnot handle the fuel boost of the walbro..! I think that I reed it here or to uk forums! Maybe I read it for the GTS-T....!

So no need of fpr? I will put off the stock from the one side of the the rail and I will put it in the middle and then the 5/8 braided line to the tank, right?

What fuel pressure we have with stock fpr? And how much pressure I need?

[Butters]

Don't need huge power to run times in an S13. Try and keep it light.

I ran 11.4 @ 117mph in the Maytech drift car with sr20det and 235 rwkw un-opened engine(cept cams) so not a big $ spend either.

Dirtgarage I love the mybuster rod test idea. I have seen some BIG(500rwhp+) hp SR's that people thought were jap full house builds been cracked open to find aftermarket pistons but factory stock SR rods.

Edited January 22, 2008 by Butters

[R31Nismoid]

^^ man that fuel setup its a bloody mission.

Its simple as this.

Lift pump --> Surge tank in the boot with a Bosch MSport pump

Surge --> Use factory lines to the engine bay

Factory Rail, factory FPR --> Factory lines back to the boot.

Its a done deal, tried and proven by countless people. Only thing you need is Nismo 740cc injectors. Thats it!

If its good enough for plenty of 350rwkw circuit GTR's on semi's, big $$ suspension and what not that are going to be throwing fuel around well and above what you will be doing... so it'll be fine for a 350rwkw car going in a straight line.

That setup was perfectly fine for me when i was racing with 370rwkw.

This is assuming you've given up your 440rwkw aims and taken on board the 350-370rwkw thing.

You said yourself your on a budget, so just go with what everyone else on a budget has done and works fine with day in/day out

[GreeceS13]

R31Nismoid you suggest me a differenct fuel system like DiRTGarage right? Haha

Lift pump -> boot surge tank -> 044 -> stock fuel feed -> rail -> stock fpr -> stock fuel return..

Why to use the surge tank and lift pump? Why not just use the 044 in the stock tank?

And this system is for 350wkw? I want to be sure that I am ok even with 400wkw! I don't want to fear for my car!! :| :|

My last scheme guys will not be a good fuel system?

Anyway if I don't have twin entry rail I am afraid that the last injector will be lean... (but I think that it is better to run with less fuel the last cyllinder.... stock intake limits the air that goes to the last cyllinder and it run very rich and it destroy the cyllinder and piston)

[R31Nismoid]

Yes i am saying something different based on the 350-370rwkw as you keep talking about lack of cash.

So what ive suggest fits into the "lack of cash" basket. The other one neccesarily doesnt.

Its a good $600AUD more at least for a rail, extra pump, lines and fittings.

Your picture @ 10:10am ADST still didnt include the surge tank... you cant have two pumps feeding from the tank... its coming from the surge still so your designs are still backwards to what Paul (Dirt) was suggesting.

Surge tank requires fuel supplied to it... this comes via a "lift pump" that is mounted in-tank.

For a surge tank to work you need one pump supplying the surge tank with fuel (lift pump) and another pump(s) taking the fuel to the engine bay.

I say this as 350rwkw isnt the same as 440rwkw based on expenditure... you've got a LOT more to spend to get 440rwkw reliable.

Without cams, head work etc that you dont have the cash for, the 440rwkw(600rwhp) is not going to happen as far as i can see it.

So are you, or are you not going for 440rwkw/600rwhp?

You keep talking about not having the $$$, so what are you chasing? What is the budget at hand?

Are you after a 440rwkw setup that is questionable, or a 350rwkw setup that is reliable?

Sorry for the long post, but your indecisiveness and unclear aims are not helping people that are trying to help you when you arent even clear about what you want.

[TommO]

Why to use the surge tank and lift pump? Why not just use the 044 in the stock tank?

Because of this reason:

Fast cornering and high performance driving can cause starving on your fuel supply. With cornering, acceleration and braking, the fuel moves around the tank. This allows the fuel pump to pick up air, thus aerating the fuel. Some of this aerated fuel is delivered through the injectors to the engine, resulting in surging, hesitation and harmful detonation. Surge Tanks eliminate this problem by acting as a small reservoir that de-aerates the fuel, ensuring constant fuel pressure and flow.

R31Nismoids description of a fuel setup is good, same as picture attached. Swirl pot / surge tank... same thing.

Do the same using good fuel pumps and you'll be fine

Edited January 23, 2008 by TommO

[GreeceS13]

First of all thanks for the help!

Ok I don't have money for cams, head work e.t.c!

I have money only for single turbo+manifold, injectors, ecu remap, decent tires and if the osgiken isn't enought I will go for a triple plate!

I can go for 440wkw with all theese but with big turbo and decent fuel system right?

And it will be reliable if I also change rods and use decent clutch!

The smallest choice(and cheap) for turbo that I have in my mind is a GT3582R that is good as garret site says for 600hp (I think fly-hp no whp)!

I want to be sure about my fuel system... maybe after some months I will go for more horsepower!

Can you explain me please why I cannot have two pumps in the tank? And why to use a surge tank?

Why to send the fuel from the tank to the surge and from the surge to an other pump?

Lift pump + Surge tank + Bosch external

This system can suply to the rail 300l per hour right?

Bosch into the tank only

This system can suply to the rail 300l too, right?

So why to have liftpump and surge tank?

[GreeceS13]

TommO the Pump1 is in to the tank as lift right?

Endly I don't need two moddifie my stock rail to a twin entry rail?

Edited January 23, 2008 by GreeceS13

[R31Nismoid]

First of all thanks for the help!

Ok I don't have money for cams, head work e.t.c!

I have money only for single turbo+manifold, injectors, ecu remap, decent tires and if the osgiken isn't enought I will go for a triple plate!

I can go for 440wkw with all theese but with big turbo and decent fuel system right?

Without touching the head, cams etc. I say no to getting 440rwkw. You'll want a bloody good tuner too to get a decent remap.

Probably can be done, but i wouldnt be attempting it.

Not enough flow, too much boost required etc.

The smallest choice(and cheap) for turbo that I have in my mind is a GT3582R that is good as garret site says for 600hp (I think fly-hp no whp)!

A GT35 wont make 440rwkw mate unless your on the race fuel and even think about some NOS down the tube.

Garrett or HKS T04Z is the turbo of choice there for that power.

Can you explain me please why I cannot have two pumps in the tank? And why to use a surge tank?

Why to send the fuel from the tank to the surge and from the surge to an other pump?

Surge tank - read the quote by TommO - its pretty self explainatory mate.

Two pumps intake would be a LOT of dicking around.

Trying to fit two cradles in there, mounting them, getting them in and out... simply making a headache for no reason

Lift pump + Surge tank + Bosch external

This system can suply to the rail 300l per hour right?

Bosch into the tank only

This system can suply to the rail 300l too, right?

So why to have liftpump and surge tank?

Again, read the info on this page, its pretty clear what the lift pumps role is for the surge tank.

The surge tanks role in it all is all covered, go re-read TommO's post, look at the diagram etc etc

[GreeceS13]

Cool I understand now why I need surge tank... I didn't see the quote of TomnO! Sorry!

Two pumps intake would be a LOT of dicking around.

Trying to fit two cradles in there, mounting them, getting them in and out... simply making a headache for no reason

I don't understand nothing you said here mate!

One 044 you said that it is safe for 350wkw... but maybe I need more kw! And I want to be sure sure and safe!

So I will go for two external and one lift! Maybe I will go for walbro pumps althought you don't like them

Two walbros can push 500lph!!! One 044 only 300! Better to be sure!

So one lift pump, surge tank to the boot, stoc fuel lines both used for feed each pump each side of rail!

One 15/8 fuel return!

3 walbros high flow 255l each

Are you sure that I can use stock fpr right?

Also please tell me how much fuel boost have rb26dett stock!

How much hp I will see with GT35 with the big a/r at a normal boost (1.4bar?) ?

400wkw?

[GreeceS13]

I read that 044 are very noisy!! Any idea how can I avoid the noise?

Also the pumps don't need cooling? If I have them to the boot how they will cooling?