Unanswered Questions About The R35

[carizma]

Look, we don't want to troll or dash any hopes out there, but let's face it, there are a ton of unanswered questions about the R35 out there that we just don't know yet. STILL, it doesn't hurt to guess any of these answers, right? We (me, Marc, or Jon) hardly read this section of the forum, because it's all so speculative, but this is our opinion here that it's just not worth even thinking about the R35 at least for another year or so, for the following reasons.

Here are two (what we believe to be) facts people should keep in mind when thinking about doing compliance for this car (remember, we have 19 models on our compliance list now, largest in Victoria, we know what we're talking about at least a bit):

#1. The new Nissan R35 GTR has now been released in Japan. Unfortunately it will be 18 months (from October 24 2007) before it is eligible for import under the RAWS scheme unless Nissan provide a letter that they will not be importing it to Australia (unlikely I think). The word is that Nissan are trying for Full Volume approval for some time late 2008. (This 'word' comes from an engineer we know)

Bringing in a Vehicle for market evaluation is a big risk at this stage as it may never get to the stage of being eligible for compliance. (I.E. there has to be a period of 18 months where Nissan doesn't bring it in themselves, or else it will never be eligible)

#2. On top of that the new sevs emissions laws are making it so tight that no new raws vehicles to date have passed an emission test. This could be how the government is trying to squeeze out importers.

That's about it, really....we'd love to be wrong about this stuff, so please start the flame war now. I realize that everyone's quite excited about this car....but if you're bringing in test cars, I'd recommend having a backup plan or at least thinking about the issues I've outlined above.

cheers!

david @ carizma

[lingeringsoul]

i dont' know much about this emission thing, but if you stick 20 cat on the car all the way through the exhaust, that would lower the emission wouldn't it? Why don't they just do that to test the emission and then swap it over once its all done?

[Guest]

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Edited January 22, 2008 by Guest

[carizma]

sorry, you lost me on that post.

Why do you think this car isn't for dealers? We've had dealers asking about bringing in evaluation vehicles already, and we told them pretty much what I outlined in the above post.

I understand what you're saying about 'waiting for others', and that definitely seems like the smart way to do things now, but I don't know how you can say it 'will not be hard', because it might be IMPOSSIBLE, which is more than hard.

As I said above, Nissan has 18 months from release in Japan to bring it in themselves. Until that 18 months passes OR Nissan writes a letter to DOTARS giving up their import rights, no one can bring them in under SEVS.

Our dealership wouldn't bring in a car in this range, simply because we could buy about 10 R34's for this price and turn them over much quicker. It becomes a simple calculation of your rate of return to see if it's worthwhile. For us to add a new vehicle to our schedule, we'd have to do about 20 vehicles per year to make it worthwhile for compliance, granted with a car like the R35 it'd drop, but still, we're already maxing out our plates so why bother?

The bigger issues that are brewing have not even been covered yet as to if approval will be granted under new vehicles so for the first workshop that tries let see what happens as a few people thought it would be simple and jumped in with out looking into everything.

The R35 GTR will not be hard to get approved if you know what you are doing from a signatory point of view the issues are big picture stuff associated with Nissan, DOTARS, Evidence and time frame.

This isn't for car dealers who want to make a quick buck territory it is for people who do one thing and one thing only.

[sewid]

Hi David, thanks for your post maybe you can help us clear up what is going on in the industry surrounding the R35 GTR.

First off - not disagreeing with you but can you please point me to the relevant legislation which says there is an 18 month gap between the release of the vehicle and the eligibility for import into Australia. I'm not saying it isn't there or arguing with you I just want to know more of the background and haven't found that yet. (I'm currently re-reading Circular 0-2-12-1)

That being said, the R35 GTR is already on the eligible vehicles list for new vehicles only; are you referring to used vehicles only? Or both? As you are in the trade, can you explain what this listing in the SEVS list means with regards to importing a brand new car?

Lastly, since we know RAWS already have cars in the country what are the steps they would be going through right now with these cars to gather evidence? I assume collecting emissions data and safety data, anything else?

Again thanks for posting - just trying to learn more about the industry in general.

[funkymonkey]

off the top of my head, you'll need to supply structural integrity test results (side intrusion, frontal impact etc), as well as provide evidence that it complies to the new emissions regulations (keeping in mind japan's still a bit behind on this area, hence their cars being delivered with higher power outputs than overseas).

gathering collision data for an R35 will be fun. not many written off cars you can use a good side of to collect data, and I'd assume Nissan's not too keen on supplying the data either.

[Beer Baron]

yes it's correct. to import used cars via SEVS in low volume they have to have been offered OS for 18months before nissan started selling them here in full volume (this is what happed with S15s, 18months on sale OS before nissan started full volume sales). at the moment new cars are eligible under SEVS but no-one has got compliance yet, but it should be possible. used cars is wait and see what happens. no-one can accurately predict that at this point.

[sewid]

off the top of my head, you'll need to supply structural integrity test results (side intrusion, frontal impact etc), as well as provide evidence that it complies to the new emissions regulations (keeping in mind japan's still a bit behind on this area, hence their cars being delivered with higher power outputs than overseas).

gathering collision data for an R35 will be fun. not many written off cars you can use a good side of to collect data, and I'd assume Nissan's not too keen on supplying the data either.

The car has been built with emissions in mind and meets the Japanese U-LEV (Ultra Low Emissions Vehicle) standard meaning it has emissions 75% lower than those required by the current emissions criteria in Japan. There is also some sources saying it meets Californian ULEV standards as well but I don't blindly trust those sources.

[carizma]

Wasn't sure how to cut and paste multiple posts, so I'll try to simplify what might be some misunderstandings below.

Basically, it makes sense to look at Nissan's options, which leads us to our (compliance workshop's) options.

option #1: Nissan brings in more than 100 R35's to Australia (within 18 months of release).

result for us: sorry, only Nissan can bring it in.

option #2: Nissan declares they will bring it in under SEVS (like Mitsubishi did with EVO)

result for us: hooray, let's all get compliance and import R35's.

option #3: Nissan can say, "we're not bringing it in" (which they probably won't do)

result for us: wow, thanks for the heads up Nissan, that was kind, now let's bring in R35's.

option #4: Nissan doesn't bring them in for 18 months, but brings them in later possibly

result for us: we can bring in the cars built during those date ranges (same as S15)

don't think there's an option #5

[carizma]

Right, but a RAW can only do used cars, and emissions are harder on used cars than new cars. I don't have the numbers in front of me, so can someone check the SEVS emission requirements (from 2006/7?) versus Japan ULEV?

k, going home now....Jon might be replying from now on for today....

-david

The car has been built with emissions in mind and meets the Japanese U-LEV (Ultra Low Emissions Vehicle) standard meaning it has emissions 75% lower than those required by the current emissions criteria in Japan. There is also some sources saying it meets Californian ULEV standards as well but I don't blindly trust those sources.

[sewid]

Right, but a RAW can only do used cars, and emissions are harder on used cars than new cars. I don't have the numbers in front of me, so can someone check the SEVS emission requirements (from 2006/7?) versus Japan ULEV?

k, going home now....Jon might be replying from now on for today....

-david

Cheers for that. That was what I was missing. RAWS can only do used cars so we are back to 18 months of waiting to see what Nissan does.

[funkymonkey]

if that's the case, then how are F50 Cima's coming into the country through RAWS?

[carizma]

Well since they came out in 2001....they are used

if that's the case, then how are F50 Cima's coming into the country through RAWS?

[funkymonkey]

lol my bad, jsut checked the SEVS listing and F50's are listed as used cars, its Y50 Fuga's that are new. d'oh.

So being listed as a New Import, does that mean that whoever imports the car has to sell it as their own product? so for example the Carizma GT-R? I'm assuming Nissan would then sue the pants off anyone selling it as their own product?

[lingeringsoul]

sooo....are we gonna be getting the Fuga? or not? I wouldn't mind getting one of thoses in a a few years

[carizma]

Yeah also they came out 2004 too I believe, I think the only way we can do a new car is if the major manufacture is not in Australia and the car meets all the criteria.

lol my bad, jsut checked the SEVS listing and F50's are listed as used cars, its Y50 Fuga's that are new. d'oh.

So being listed as a New Import, does that mean that whoever imports the car has to sell it as their own product? so for example the Carizma GT-R? I'm assuming Nissan would then sue the pants off anyone selling it as their own product?

[GTR-32U]

I just wish Nissan australia would start selling ALL Skylines here again like the old R31 days.What a great shame they stopped selling skylines here right when the really good ones were just being released

[carizma]

It would be ok if they sold them at a reasonable price though...

I just wish Nissan australia would start selling ALL Skylines here again like the old R31 days.What a great shame they stopped selling skylines here right when the really good ones were just being released

[NXTIME]

Don't blame Nissan, blame the damn govt.

[funkymonkey]

Don't blame Nissan, blame the damn govt.

the same damn government that's got one of the best import laws for a country with its own automotive manufacturing industry?