New P-plate Laws

[r_o_b]

Hi all as some of you may have seen in previous topics im not the greatest fan of the new P-plate laws coz basically i think that there a load of shit.

So being in my final year of my seconday education I have to complete an oral presentation lasting 5min on a recent issue. For thoes of you that dont know what im on about, its basically something i need to do in order to recieve an ENTER score.

At first I was going to do the dredging of the bay but because half my class was doing the same thing i thought why not talk about something that im passionate about. Now in todays paper they just released the new laws for p-platers only allowing 1 passenger in the car for your first year aged 16-21. For thoes that want to read the article: http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/one...2233951235.html. Vic Roads say that their reason for this is to lower the risk of deaths for 18 yr olds.

I've decided to go against these laws simply because I believe that its the 'hoon' or unsafe driving mentality that they need to change rather than restricting what cars we can drive and who can come in the car. Im also going to argue the point that proper driving training is required (car controll not learning how to do hook turns) so that we understand what happens in certain situations and how they can be prevented no matter how many people are in the car.

By no means am i asking you guys to prepare the presentation for me, all im after is constructive imput on both sides of the debate for ideas on how i can go about presuading my audience. So tell me what do you guys (and girls) think??? What side do you take and why???

[adam-__-]

More young people are going to be drink driving because their friend already had 1 passenger in their car. Drink driving obviously means higher road tolls.

About P platers not being able to drive turbo's, V8's etc, I think that's going too far. They should've just kept the old rule of not being able to drive a car that's 125kw/tonne, because power is power. Some turbo car's can't make power, but they still ban them. They should just have the 125kw rule. If you drive a turbo car and it goes over that limit or already is over the limit, fine them.

Hope that helps a little. It's all I can think of at the moment.

[saff_cossie]

Search the Vic section for threads, around fatalities sadly as there is a stack of info in some of them.

My thoughts summarised:

Restricting passengers isn't right, its knee jerk and has been thought up because of a minority. Uni students etc who house share and may only have one car, will have to make alternative arrangements, young people in jobs who can't all afford cars etc. Disagree completely with this one.

Better driving training is needed, it has to be a test not some baboon telling you "I will checking you obey stop signs, keep out of cycle lanes and observe the speed limit" as I witnessed at Vic Roads personally. A test should include multiple challenges e.g. I had to reverse around a corner and keep a certain distance from the kerb, while checking mirrors and not looking at the steering wheel as 1 example in the UK. Had 2 others to do also.

Definately limit the car, a young male or female does not need 11ty billion KW at the wheels. 50-100kw is ample. This is a vehicle to get you from A-B while you build up your experience. It need not be new, expensive or powerful.

Insurance that is related to the car should be mandatory. If people had to pay for an expensive or powerful car (mods declared), they would soon think twice about what they bought and the mods to it.

There will be more p platers on the road which could be both positive or negative. Negative, more inexperienced road users, positive, more $$ for the State with rego, fines etc.

Other factors that are not P plate related I feel are an issue include, lack of tolerance on speed on highways, roadside cameras, defecting.

Hope this helps.

[Rekin]

suggestion i have for the oral presentation, is to choose a subject and a viewpoint the teacher will like. Afterall she is the one grading/marking you and if you present a point which he/she is stubborn on then they will most likely ask you hard questions and try and force their point of view towards you.

I remember my friend doing an oral presentation about Speed not killing people, but improper education. Teacher disagreed with his view and was a bitch to him lol

But i guess it comes down to your teacher and if he/she has an open mind outside the mainstream issues.

Choose something the teacher likes and you should be able to pull maximum points that way

[rh1n0]

Maybe something on the fact that this will increase the number of P-Plate drivers on the road at one given time. Lets say that a group of people would like to go to a party (or shopping, see the football, etc) together - it just means that there will only be 2 people in each car (if they are all in the same age group). I'd say that this, if anything, encourages reckless driving, racing, etc.

Then (being dramatic and thinking in a possibly unrealistically long-termed time frame) you've got to think about those extra parking spaces at shopping complexes, football stadiums, etc. Also, more road use means the possibility of more road maintenance needing to be done.

And of course carbon emissions are likely to increase on a drastic level due to all the old, beat up pieces of crap that many P-Plates consider to be a great thing. And more cars in general.

Not everyone has enough cash to buy something that's perfect in every way. Some cars don't have the best brakes, steering, transmission, safety features, visibility, the list goes on.. How can it be simple enough for the government to single out the P-Platers (who aren't the only ones that drive recklessly and aren't the only people who drive sh*tty unsafe cars)?

I can understand that P-Platers may not the most experienced drivers on the roads and therefore maybe do need a little more 'care' than everyone else.

You won't want to include this in your oral, but only the first year sounds fair to me. Any longer than that and it would be a major pain in the rear end. Major.

And, if your teacher is a proper Year 12 teacher they won't be harsh on you for picking a topic that they have a strong opinion on. Doing something that you're passionate on will just mean you'll try harder to persuade your listeners. At the end of the day, you know you've done your best.

Best of luck with your oral mate.

(Even though I'm still on my Learners at the moment and have a crap car myself I think I'm qualified enough to have an opinion. Probably over-qualified with my crappy car. =P)

Edit: Here's another article on The Age (which you may have already seen) that has more opinions of other people. You may be able to expand on some of them or add your personal experience.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/why...2233951238.html

Edited February 7, 2008 by rh1n0

[Sass]

my thoughts are the govt think P platers are going to screw up and this is a way of limiting who they are going to kill

they think its going to make them drive a different way? doubt it.

no matter how much experience a P plater gets on their P's they are still going to drive the way they want to when they get off them - whether it be like a grandma or a hoon.

the govt think they are doing the right thing - in their eyes and the public (maybe not for the P platers)

but in the end i think people will still drive the way they are going to drive

[Sass]

just make sure you raise arguments for both sides and back them up, give your opinion in your conclusion but make sure you make the teacher happy, like Pat said, so it does just look like your having a go at the new laws through the class

[adam-__-]

When I did my oral presentation last year, I had 2-3 teachers marking? Is this the same for your school or is there the only 1 teacher?

[DogKnight]

There are several things wrong with P Plate laws that are in place and they are proposing.

The limit to one peer passanger is a bit stupid. I dont think it will help anything. How about when they are going to a party or a club and you have a designated driver. Rather than 1 out of 5 not being able to drink, every second person wont be able to. And while some will see this as a positive, I believe its more likely to increase drink driving. On top of that, when you have 10 friends leaving a club, whats more dangerous? 10 people between 2 cars, or 10 people between 5 cars. I think it will cause more problems than it fixes and really punishes those who dont do anything "hoonish" and actually obey road laws.

I still think the power per tonne rule was good. And on top of this, it should be able to be proven. An old V8 may not run anywhere near what it used to with 400,000+ k's. And be well under the limit. Something where people could drive these cars if they have proven its below power to weight limit. They should have official testing and a document p platers could carry to prove this. If a P plater either needs to drive one of these cars (EG: its the only car available to them, they cant afford one and this was passed down by parents; or simply they like a different style of car), they will be more than happy to get these cars tested to prove what pwoer output they make.

They simply didnt want to take that route so its much easier for them to write off any V8's, turbo cars, etc.

There are a lot of different views and ways you can look at these laws. In the end it comes down to a few major points in my opinon.

1) P Platers should have a power limit on their cars.

2) More P Platers on the road = more likely for accidents. New laws will increase P plate cars on the road.

3) More driver training and education should be started. Not just see if they can pass a test. But also make them do a course, like the AAMI driving course. Explain to them about tyres and grip on the road, explain aqua planeing, let them see how their car breaks in an emergency and just how much distance they need to leave.

[r_o_b]

When I did my oral presentation last year, I had 2-3 teachers marking? Is this the same for your school or is there the only 1 teacher?

Well the minimum requirement is 2 teachers present. From what i have found in the age 2 days ago the report says that although there will be more cars on the road the risk should be lower in terms of having accidents, but there is a great difference from risk and fact.

My teacher is pretty easy going about my issue i selected and by the tone of her voice she almost sounded happy or excited that i was going against the laws simply because it is something different. 95% of my class is doing dredging and when there are several people who are doing the same topic (which there are) it can become very boring for the teachers to mark the same issue and due to this you could be marked not only against the criteria but also against other students. Whether people like it or not this is called reality, teachers are human too and if I was marking the orals I would have loved to see somebody do something different.

Can I say thankyou to all of u peoples for such lenghy responses. I'll try keep you all filled in on the news that unfolds.

[nitestalkr]

I agree with the points against the 1 passenger legislation.

There will just be a hell of a lot more cars on the road at 2/3am with two ppl in them. Especially when leaving a party etc.. with only 4 friends for example, thats already 3 cars instead of one!!

Now i don't know about everyone else, but when i was 18 (young dumb and full of cum), i couldn't think of anything funnier than a 3 lane drag down a highway at whatever speeds these 'underpowered' cars (i used to have a 1993 Pulsar Q, it might or might not have gone around 220kph on several occasions) are capable of.

Now i suppose my last point is going to be a matter of personal opinion, but a 3 lane drag against my mates was going to suggest i do plenty stupider shit than a few drongos in the back going 'stop for these chicks' or 'do a burnout'..

Edited February 8, 2008 by nitestalkr

[DogKnight]

Or just stupuid shit like holding up traffic driving in all 3 lanes next to each other. Not to mention looking at your mates driving beside you rather that at the road.

[adznight]

Restricting passengers I believe is trying to cut down on the whole "show off to your mates" thing. We all know it happens. Also trying to get rid of distractions etc. I've lots count of how many times I've seen 5 people in a car with P Plater fly past me or act like a bunch of fu(k tards, might not be such a bad thing. Get used the car while you can concentrate then have passengers. I'm not for or against it, just food for thought.

[r_o_b]

true to that. ok so tell me people.

are you still gona drive like sick c**ts even though you only have one person in the car or do you think that stupid driving will be worse with a full car???? (keep in mind variables such as having more of your mates on the road hence encourage road racing as mentioned by some people above.

[DogKnight]

Not too mention a car with 5 people in in will be slower than a car with 2 people in it. LOL. Completely beside the point i know

Glad im off my P's these days.

[r_o_b]

^^^^ ROFL SO TRUE. What I find funny is that im against these laws that dont even effect me. I drive a 2 seater LOL

true to that. ok so tell me people.

are you still gona drive like sick c**ts even though you only have one person in the car or do you think that stupid driving will be worse with a full car???? (keep in mind variables such as having more of your mates on the road hence encourage road racing as mentioned by some people above.

and other ideas opinions?????

[Curmi]

the new rules are bullshit

[adam-__-]

the new rules are bullshit

.... the end.

Is your oral on the new laws (1 passenger) only or is about the P plate laws in general?

[blind_elk]

The power:weight rule, while good in principle, is a farce in reality. How many of you here have been booked for driving under this rule, but you still have the keys to the "too powerful" car? All that has happened is you have had to part with $135 or so. How does that contribute to road safety? It doesn't; it simply contributes to the state's coffers.

You can still learn in one of these, because a fully licenced driver is "in charge" of the car. But tell me, who is "in control" of the car? And while you can learn in one, and do your test in one, YOU CANNOT DRIVE IT HOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Because it is a restricted vehicle for P-platers. How freekin' stupid is that?

/rant

If you back up your argument with sound logic, the teacher cannot (in theory at least) mark you down in any way. After all, this is a democracy, and we are allowed to have opinions different to the rest of the population.

[foznice]

Good work for doing something different. The teachers shouldn't be marking on WHAT you choose, but it's the persuasive techniques you use, as well as the structure of the speech blah blah blah. I think you'll be fine.

I think from personal experience (and to generalize) young drivers (not just P-platers) are more silly behind the wheel with a car full of mates. Very rarely does someone with P-plates try and drag me or do something else stupid when they are by themselves. As Adz was saying, theres a mentality change people are with a carload of mates. So with this in mind, I think its the hoon mentality that the gov't is trying to change.

But I would argue that becuase of other issues that are mentioned here (especially carbon emissions) there should be a better way to change this mentality then to bring this policy in (driver education).

Best of luck.