Itb Setup Ecu?

[N/A MIKE]

Hi guys

Long time reader

First time poster.

Im building a rb30de and have costed out an rb26 individual throttle body setup,

Trumpets, RB26 throttle bodys, RB26/RB25 adapter all for a good price.

My question is how to run an ECU with no AFM and individual throttle bodys???

If I linked all the intakes together (with an alloy pipe T'ing into each intake or a custom sandwich plate which links them all together) between head and butterflys, would this equel the pressurs across the cylinders/intakes and enable me to run a MAP sensor at one end or the center?.

6X MAP sensors, one behind each butterfly?.

I could put one MAP sensor one the worst cylinder and tune all 6 to that one? (not realy my idea of a good plan).

Or am I making this all to complicated and theres an easy way past this?.

Cheers

Mike

[dyken]

i found not long ago on yahoo auctions an itb set up for an rb25head came with ecu it said in broken translated engRish pretty much plug and play

[N/A MIKE]

Guess I could ditch the trumpets, use an RB26 plenium modyfied to 100mm intake, run 100mm alloy tube down to a Q45 AFM and a big pod in a cold air box??, and use a apexi SAFCII to tune it all together

[unarmed_skyline]

nah go the trumpets, you will notice way better throttle responce, im not to sure how to set-up the map sensors, but mabye have a look how a few others are set-up and work it out from there. theres lots of differnt itb cars with trumpets just not many skylines, so people on here might not know the exact answer. safc will be a joke i think they are a peice of junk i had one and they can only add 10 or 15% more fuel and you cant change your injectors or much else, better to go fully integratable system with ur type of set-up.

i'd prob suggest a microtech ecu they are getting a lot better just upgraded all they're units. mabye send off an email to them saying what ur setting up and they will be able to suggest the best map sensor combo for your application

[N/A MIKE]

Guess I could ditch the trumpets, use an RB26 plenium modyfied to 100mm intake, run 100mm alloy tube down to a Q45 AFM and a big pod in a cold air box??, and use a apexi SAFCII to tune it all together

Just to point out that I don't want to use the Q45 AFM for more kw's, more for less restriction upto the rb26 buterflys, hopefully not losing any of the responce of the ITB's. (saveing my self from sum smartarse overkill comments )

[unarmed_skyline]

lol the problem with just grabbing a q45 AFM is that it might be to big and then take longer to fill with air heance losing responce over trumpets. If your looking at saving money yes it will work and will give good power figures, but it not the best way to set it up.

The benifits of going with plenum and intake with afm will be that it will me more leagal dependin on your state it is illegal to remove the afm and run a map sensor on an originally afmed car.

If your looking at setting it up with a plenum i would look around to find some figures on what the best size piping and afm will be for the best responce and power, just putting a Q45 might not be the best afm to use, it is better in turbo applications but there is a lot less air in entering an na engine and it doesnt have a turbine sucking it threw the afm and pushing into the intake.

Best to have a look at 2 things, 1st with itb's and trumpets what map sensor set-up you'll need as i said earlier email microtech they will give you a definitive answer within a week, then add up the cost's of the trumpets with filters, and map sensor/sensors plus any fab work you can't do yourself (wiring or mechanical/structural)

Second thing have a search around on other inlarged na intake set-ups and see what has worked/not worked, and the cost's involved buying and fabbing what you need.

You also need to look into what ecu your going to use.

For such an nice build up i wouldnt skimp out that much on the ecu.

If your going for afm with piggy bak i would suggest the greddy emanage and timing adjustments will help your build emensily, if you want to fork out a little more an ems, motec or autronic piggy backs have same features and some more goodies.

If you want a little cheaper grab an safc and a second hand stic if you can find one, these to in combination will do some good fuel and timming corrections but will be very limited, as you wont be able to change injectors and there is not a huge amount corrections that can be made with these.

If your going stand alone, first suggestion would be microtech or wolf 3d, then if u want to spend big dollars any of the motec autronic ems ect's will be very nice but probably a little overkill.

If you want to save some coin go a link but there are not many places familiar with tunning these.

I would stay away from power fc's as they are really only suited to turbo skylines and getting very hard to find.

3rd perfectly liable option would be a remap, i think they are able to remap 33 ecu's nowadays but the way they used to do it was run a 32 ecu remap that and use an apexi controller for vct or whatever its called, although if your getting bigger cam's/cam gears you'll most likely not have vct anyways.

Are you considering any head work? ie upgraded valve springs cams port polish?? as may end up cheaper to just grab a compete gtr head and wacking that on the 30 block. What sort of pistons you getting stockies? or forgies?

[N/A MIKE]

The way I was looking at it was similer to having itb's with a cold air box (the gtr plenium) around them, with a afm messuring the air going in to the box (plenium), if you get my drift , the Q45 being bigger and giving less resistance into box(plenium). Iv done alittle resurch into plenium ideas and the rule seams to be 1.5x air in plenium than in engine i.e. 3L engine/min of 4.5L plenium, sound right?. Looked in to trumpet design and length alittle to, jury still out on that though. I haddent realy thought about the AFM and low air speeds, any one played with a Q45 on a N/A???, when I did my GTS25 I was woried about keeping the air speed up into the cilinder head from the tb (standerd over head plenium). I just assumed with itb's close to the ports this would be less of an issue?.

Im in NZ, so legal smegal

RB26 heads are expensive over hear upto the 2k nz mark (no intake or exaust), compaired to R33 RB25de's around $300 nz.

I can get a RB26 throttle setup and plenium, inc addaption for the R33 head for around $1000 nz

I will be trying to keep the cost resenable, planning to use minimum safc, E-manage or ultimate. Cam gears ,no vct, sticking with standerd cams and get head checked but no head work for now, going to get my rb30 rods and rb25de pistons checked, if ok will use those + new rings ,block checked, if ok acid diped/painted and lightly honed, crank checked and balenced and a crank coler installed then put back together with new berings, oil pump, water pump and what not.

Going to get a 4WD sump adapter from Pro engines, there real nice units.

And plonk it all into a R23 GTS4, hopeing to be a real nice driveing car, im not super fond of turbos, twin turbos is a diffrent story but a diffrent price bracket to. will run in with RB25de injectors and standerd ecu(maby safc if I go with Q45 afm), but will up to RB20det's and looking at E-manage unit after run in.

Edited February 21, 2008 by N/A MIKE

[SKiT_R31]

trying to keep the cost resenable, planning to use minimum safc, E-manage or ultimate. Cam gears ,no vct, sticking with standerd cams and get head checked but no head work for now, going to get my rb30 rods and rb25de pistons checked, if ok will use those + new rings ,block checked, if ok acid diped/painted and lightly honed, crank checked and balenced and a crank coler installed then put back together with new berings, oil pump, water pump and what not.

Going to get a 4WD sump adapter from Pro engines, there real nice units.

And plonk it all into a R23 GTS4, hopeing to be a real nice driveing car, im not super fond of turbos, twin turbos is a diffrent story but a diffrent price bracket to. will run in with RB25de injectors and standerd ecu(maby safc if I go with Q45 afm), but will up to RB20det's and looking at E-manage unit after run in.

ok, to start with, cams are a must, its the difference between 120-130kw, and 150+kw with the 3L, thats just with regrinds, you dont lose drivability and it makes it a hell of alot more fun, and not much to pay, but yeah a budget tho - but in that case why balance? it aint gonna rev past 5k. As for injectors, you wont get far with the n/a items, you will need det ones if you want to make any reasonable power, and they cost like <$50. Safc can tune the injectors, as can emanage etc.

[N/A MIKE]

Yeah thats just what iv been looking at, max re-grind 8.3mm lift and 273deg, or something like that, im prety tired .

Im glad the Q45 worked out for you mate, Iv been alitle woried that it wouldnt messure on idel + now I think it will work mint with the RB26 itb's, mite ditch the RB26 plenum idea now, found out thay only 4.1L volume, I think I want a minimum of 6L. May look at a custom alloy or fiberglass/carbon one, perhaps shape it abit to get a larger volume.

---- SORY MY TIRED ASS MISTAKE, MAX REGRIND OF STOCK CAMS 8.3mm lift and 255 duration----

Check this link out http://extrudabody.com/ got some neet ideas.

Edited February 21, 2008 by N/A MIKE

[Eug]

too much to read

but dooooo eeeeeeeeeeeeeeet!

[SKiT_R31]

Yeah thats just what iv been looking at, max re-grind 8.3mm lift and 273deg, or something like that, im prety tired .

Im glad the Q45 worked out for you mate, Iv been alitle woried that it wouldnt messure on idel + now I think it will work mint with the RB26 itb's, mite ditch the RB26 plenum idea now, found out thay only 4.1L volume, I think I want a minimum of 6L. May look at a custom alloy or fiberglass/carbon one, perhaps shape it abit to get a larger volume.

Check this link out http://extrudabody.com/ got some neet ideas.

ive got 8.3, 2555deg cams in mine, peak power is 6000rpm peak torque is 5000rpm, verry grunty down low, perfect linear graph (thats with vct) im hunting for a front facing plenum, was looking at the greddy copies (cheap) +q45 tb, why do you need a high volume plenum? i would have thought when its at WOT its at WOT - so doesn't matter?

[N/A MIKE]

ive got 8.3, 2555deg cams in mine, peak power is 6000rpm peak torque is 5000rpm, verry grunty down low, perfect linear graph (thats with vct) im hunting for a front facing plenum, was looking at the greddy copies (cheap) +q45 tb, why do you need a high volume plenum? i would have thought when its at WOT its at WOT - so doesn't matter?

when I put my foot down I dont want the itb's to have to go looking for air through th intake pipe and filter, with a larger plenium there lots of air in it to feed itb's, beter responce??, thats my theory, if anyone knows a beter plan im all ears though.

Iv herd a few bad things about those greedy copies, like ports not lineing up well and very rough casting which causes problems, and in one case a gap in the casting, looked like a crack.

Edited February 21, 2008 by N/A MIKE

[unarmed_skyline]

Hey mike, just wondering if you had any progress??

Duno if this helps or mabye just motivates you, but stumbled accross this pic whilst doing to reading.

mmmmm ITB looks like rb25 head with trumpets. was wondering how the clearence would be for that kinda set-up but seem's like plenty of space

wopes wait that aint in an r33 but still looks like doesnt take up much room

Edited March 5, 2008 by unarmed_skyline

[Eug]

where did you come across that jarrod? any more information?

someone i know is currently working on an RB25 head to RB26 throttle body adapter. a prototype is available and he is awaiting for some results.

i am slightly considering it at this stage. it not only works out cheaper than buying/using an RB26 head - but you will also be able to retain VCT!! a port and polish of the RB25 head should get it on par with the 26.

[dori34]

^ EUG please let me know how this goes

by throttle body, you mean intake plenum right?

Edited March 5, 2008 by whyte

[unarmed_skyline]

i found it in the classic skylines section, just whored the pic really, someone started a topic saying rb with carbie, but clearly its not and that was pretty much what was said in the topic, i was trying to find more info about it but havent as yet.

[screamin']

N/A Mike, we need to talk.

I'm building something on a 2ltr you might be interested in...

[blind_elk]

How do you run a AFM when you have 6 trumpets on 6 ITBs? Ans: You can't!

Talk to Steve Newing at EFI hardware in Melbourne - www.efihardware.com - about MAP-sensing setups.

[acsplit]

How do you run a AFM when you have 6 trumpets on 6 ITBs? Ans: You can't!

Talk to Steve Newing at EFI hardware in Melbourne - www.efihardware.com - about MAP-sensing setups.

contact a motec, autronic, haltech or microtech dealer.

don't bother with the people above unless you want a sore hip pocket and poor results of trial and error

[Eug]

d-jetro!!!!!!!!!