Garrett Gt3071r Discussion & Results

[-33-]

Okay, i'm looking at buying my new turbo this week - going to go for garret 3071 with 0.63 housing. The IW and externally gated turbos come at the same price, but obviously i'll need to get an ext. wastegate if i go the latter option. A tial 38mm seems ok? A 0.9 bar rated spring should do do job? Is it even worth going external for the 260-270 (ish) rwkw i'm chasing? (have to get a new dump pipe as well if i go external).

And what about the manifold? i think 3071 will bolt up to the stock item but not 100% sure. I'm running low on funds so although i want to get a 6boost will probably stick with the stock item... for now.

Thoughts?

Edited April 9, 2008 by -33-

[discopotato03]

If it were my car and mainly for road I'd go with the integral (internal if you like) waste gate in a GT30 turbine housing . Arguably you can seal up an internal but you cant "open up" a non gated turbine housing .

The power potential of these integral gate GT30 housings is good , ask Mafia and Cubes what they've achieved with these housings on GT3076R's which use the same identical turbine as the real GT3071R .

Some other advantages of the IW type are simplicity to fit to an externally std RB25DET and that you have a better chance of hiding it from the constabulary - well more than a high mount external gate one anyway .

I don't have any results from anyone using a 0.63 A/R IW GT3071R (the real one) on an RB25DET , again if it was me I'd use the smallest or 0.63 A/R GT30 IW housing . Don't be spooked by my term "smallest" , compared to say a 0.64 AR housing from an RB specific 2530 (T3 flanged) or the BB VG30 housing the 0.63 GT30 housing is NOT small .

These A/R numbers mean squat unless you are comparing different ratios in ONE family of housings to suit ONE family of turbines . In other words say a 0.86 A/R GT28 housing would be smaller internally that a 0.82 A/R GT30 housing even though the A/R number is higher .

Last word . IF you really want the REAL Garrett GT3071R the cartridge number MUST READ 700177-23 . If it reads 700177-3 or - any other number then its not the right one in my book .

For reference go to the turbobygarrett website and look under products/turbos and its the GT30 at the top of their list .

MUST read 700177-23 .

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarre...T30/GT3071R.htm

A .

Edited February 27, 2008 by discopotato03

[dano4127]

Just out of interest, what would the other numbers be?

If its not a real GT3071R what would it be? how would it differ from said "real" GT3071R?

[-33-]

Yep, internal wastegate it'll be then =)

And don't worry i've been really picky and double checked with the supplier that the turbo is in fact authentic garret all round.

Thanks for the reply, i'll be posting up dyno sheets within the next few weeks... should be interesting to see how the 0.63 housing goes =)

[stolen_s15]

Argree 100% with disco.

In term of cost, ease of fitment, and stealth factor internal wins hands down. And since you wont sacrifice any power or boost control I see no need for an ext gate in your case.

Also from my reading the stock manifold does not hold you back unitl you start to push well over 300rwkw.

[mesmerized]

i'll be curious to know what result you get with the 3071r, i was going to get that, but decided to get the 3076r IW .63 rear, as i wanted make certain i'd hit my target of 270rwkw on lowish boost, just hope it's not too laggy

[discopotato03]

Dano the "other" two versions use the cropped or ground down version (ground down from ~ 60mm to 56.6mm) of the GT30 turbine in 84 or 90 trim . The worst part is that they are sold with bored out T28 flanged GT28 turbine housings . The combination of the altered turbine and GT28 turbine housing is a abysmal failure IMO and results in poor turbine efficiency - shows up as lag and exhaust gas restriction . The cropped turbine can be made to work ok but only (IMO) in HKS's GT2835 Pro S turbine housings .

So long story short , cartridge numbers 700177-3 and -4 tell you that they are the cropped GT3071R in 84 or 90 turbine trim .

In any case and luckily I suppose they don't bolt up to your T3 flanged std RB20/25 exhaust manifold anyway .

BTW the complete turbo part numbers are 700382-3 (84T version) or 700382-20 (90T version) .

As I mentioned recently the cropped ones are turning up in a couple of locally sold turbine housings that are supposed to emulate the Hitachi VG30DET BB exhaust housing - possibly slightly larger A/R .

My advise is insist on the real (700177-23 cartridge) one unless you particularly want to run a HKS GT2835 Pro S IW T3 flanged turbine housing . If the agent can't get one keep looking because they are around . Also to give it its best shot we should only be using genuine Garrett or HKS GT30 turbine housings so IMO the 0.63 A/R IW in a Garrett or the 0.68 A/R in a HKS GT3037 Pro S turbine housing if your lucky enough to find one .

-33- , really looking forward to hearing the results of this turbo on your R33 GTST .

Cheers A . ....... and did I mention -23 ?

Edited February 27, 2008 by discopotato03

[juggernaut1]

Disco,

Do you have any dyno results or can point me in the right direction regarding the cropped wheeled T2 flanged 3071. I cant find any and I see mixed comments regarding these turbos but never any dyno's (have also searched NS.com).

The reason I ask is that someone I know (a tuner) raves about this turbo and uses one on a Drift Australia SR20 powered drift car in a .86 ex housing and makes very good reliable power - (2 years of drifting on stock bottom end). Further he has tuned a friends car (stock SR20 S15) with the cropped 3071 in .86 with Tomei 260/260 cams and engine management and runs 12.2 sec quarters.

Gotta go the fire alarm has just gone off!!!!!

[Simon-S14]

hey disco. my cropped turbo works well but its not the same housing as a T28 style cropped turbo. I have the GCG cast copy of what looks to be the OP6 housing and yeah, 283 rwkw on 20 psi seems to be a pretty good result. I run it all the time n 16 psi which is 265 rwkw, Pulls quite hard i think!

[BOZ22N]

I am running the external gated version (with the -23 cartridge). I love it, it is very responsive and unlike the IW set-ups I have no problems with boost control up high (when running the 0.63 rear hsg). Well worth the extra time and money in my book. I made 260kw @ 13psi.

On another note,

Honestly if your car is making this sort of power do you think you are not going to have other modifications that are going to attract unwanted attention? So setting it up as a low mt to help so a bit weird I think.

But anyway good luck and you definitely wont be disappointed with what ever you choose.

Ryan

[Simon-S14]

well no, mine is low mount and makes plenty of power, the only way that you'd tell it was illegal would be when the gate opens through the screamer if i had a bell mouth dump, quiet exhaust then it wouldnt attract any unwanted attention.

Cubes car is a testament to this

[BOZ22N]

So there is nothing else on your car that would attract any attention??? that would land you in trouble anyway?

well no, mine is low mount and makes plenty of power, the only way that you'd tell it was illegal would be when the gate opens through the screamer if i had a bell mouth dump, quiet exhaust then it wouldnt attract any unwanted attention.

Cubes car is a testament to this

[BHDave]

Pick mine up tomorrow.

it won't be a genuine -23 but it will have the right housings and the right wheels. Technically it'll be a custom based on a 3076 cart but in practice it'll be a proper 3071 with the right sized wheels, .5 a/r comp cover and garrett turbine housing in .63.

I have to have it on the road in 2 weeks or i need a blue slip (which i can't possibly pass) so all going well, results in 3 weeks.

I'll be running a stock manifold initially.

I'm a little undecided on whether i'll stick the quiet rear muffler on it or go for broke with the 3.5 ID cannon that i had on for my highest power runs. Probably have to go the quiet one for rego.

I'm interested to see peoples takes on the dump pipe designs for the genuine turbine housings.

[Simon-S14]

So there is nothing else on your car that would attract any attention??? that would land you in trouble anyway?

on my car, plenty!

on cubes car, his is a 30DET making loads of power, and it looks stock as a rock! even under the bonnet, when i saw it the first time i thought it was still an rb20....

[discopotato03]

My preference is to go with what the Garrett engineers designed to be a matching pair - GT30 turbine + GT30 turbine housing .

To be confirmed but I believe that the cropped GT30 turbine was originally made for HKS and their "GT2835" turbos because there was no turbine sized between the GT30 UHP and the GT28 NS111 . Logically to take the larger one (GT30) and re profile it to the in between size is the simplest cheapest way out . As I said they work ok in a GT30 turbine housing because the nozzle and volute passage are made to suit a GT30 UHP series turbine . Naturally the housing itself needs to be profiled to suit the cropped turbines slightly smaller dimensions .

Where HKS screwed up is when they had Garrett profile GT28 turbine housings to give them an IW GT2835 option on SR20's and CA18's . Those two engines have T28 flanged exhaust manifolds and they needed T28 flanged turbine housings to make it a "bolt on" turbo option .

GT28 turbine housings are designed to suit GT28 turbines - notably that nice for its size 53.8mm NS111 type in 76 trim .

This turbine is nothing remotely like a GT30 UHP turbine , 9 blades instead of 10 and completely different blade form . Even the trim is different at 76 vs 84T .

Anyway Garrett seems to have followed suit with the cropped GT3071R which cartridge and wheel size is the same as a GT2835 but Garrett only market the 56T compressor version , HKS sell 48/52/56T versions as well in some applications .

To be fair Garrett has only fairly recently come up with proper IW T3 flanged GT30 turbine housings so in the past we were out of luck .

Also don't forget that some of these ball bearing turbos available through Garrett now were in the past HKS options only - end of story . Garret only sold their stock of some better cartridge options through HKS though I think anti competition and monopoly laws derailed that little sting .

I can remember the days when there was no such thing as a GT2860RS/GT3071R/GT3076R . You could buy a GT2530/GT2835/GT3037 but you paid in blood - even if their custom housings did work well .

Night all , cheers A .

[juggernaut1]

OK I'm back in the Towering Inferno called my office - false alarm.

Thanks for that Disco but was chasing hard and fast data.

I'm currently putting together a Tial housed GTRS and was thinking ahead if that didn't satisfy my needs whether I bore out the Tial housing and slot in cropped 3071. It could be a cheap swap. But then I've wasted the housing if it turns out to be a dog. I guess the Tial housing is a different ball game compared to the standard Garrett offering in any case.

[-33-]

Thanks for the good essays disco =)

Well if all goes well i should be buying the turbo tomorrow, and fitting it within a couple of weeks. Car is going in for 100 000 k service this monday, then the week after the turbo/injectors/powerfc/pump etc are all getting thrown in. Should be nice and fresh.

I would have done it earlier but been weighing up the options ALOT. Disco is right, its not what you think: most turbos sold as a 3071 out there are actually cropped/bastardized versions. I finally found a genuine front-to-rear 100% garrett one at a good price but they tell me only external wastegate Asking around for IW now, but pretty close to finalizing it.

I think external/internal is a choice you have to make based on where you want your car to go in the future. Firstly, i'm not going for any further mods after all this is done; secondly my car is under the radar, absolutely no exterior mods and you'd think it was stock as a rock looking at it (which is how i want it). Ext. gate sort of ruins that by a few hundred decibels

Now I don't know what the exhaust flow will be like running a JJR split dump & stock manifold; was a great mod for my stock turbo - whether it will hold up alright and not f**k around with boost issues too much will be something I'll look at when the turbo is in and tuned. If BOZ22N was able to make 260kw at 13psi with essentially the same turbo (which is my realistic power aim) boost control issues shouldnt be that much of an issue with a decent EBC.... hopefully.

[discopotato03]

Yes I think a lot of people here will be watching your progress because that's where many R33's , inc mine , are at meaning PFC/injectors/exhaust/pump etc .

I don't know what a "JJR" split dump consists of but if it suits the std RB25 or VG30 turbine housing it won't suit the IW GT30 housings outlet side . You will have to have something made to suit the new turbine housing .

With a few IW GT30 based turbos getting around nowdays its surprising no ones tooled up to make a dump pipe to fit between these turbos and the standardish exhausts first joint ie where the std cast dump bolts to the engine pipe .

I don't like the idea of one piece engine pipes / dump pipes . All too often its difficult to get at the dump's turbine end bolts/nuts particularly around and under the short side radius of the pipe . If you can have a first joint approx when Nissan has it std should be easy to unbolt everything and lift the turbo out with its dump pipe still attached . Far easier to remove that on the bench from what I've seen .

Keep us posted , cheers A .

[mesmerized]

on a side note -33- have you checked that you're supplier has everything in stock? i'm still waiting for all the parts on my 3076r kit to arrive and be assembled, and i ordered it 3 weeks ago . apparently powercruise has created a 'high demand' this month, go figure

[MR 33]

Shoudn't be any dramas. I waited 4 days from making order to picking up my gt3076 kit at GCG last week. Nearly all on now, should be tuned end of next week hopefully