Fuel pumps

[GOLD^MemBeR]

can i ask if what type of fuel regulator you use and at what pressure?

[Steve]

JimX, here is a copy of a post I put up for fitting 044, hope it helps a bit

You can use the pickup from the stock pump, just have to remove the tag that secures it to the stock pump (its plastic and sidecutters and stanley knife do a nice job), then use a piece of 1/2" hose from the bottom of the pump to the pickup and a couple of clamps.  

You also need the fitting to go in the bottom of the pump and these are pretty rare but I found one at a speed shop, then you need a hosetail connector to go on the fitting to attach the 1/2 inch line.  

You also need a banjo connector for the top of the pump, and some 3/8 fuel line to replace the existing stuff cos its too small and hose clamps. A couple of wire connectors, an 8mm and 10mm nut, stainless hose clamp to secure the pump to the bracket, but you could probably use cable ties if you are in a bodgey mood.  

The pump ends up alot higher on the bracket so the pickup is in the right spot, so you need to bend the two tongues that secure the bracket to the (edit) tank, as the extra girth of the pump over stock prevents the tongues locating in the bracket.  

also, I forgot to add, you need to cut off the metal pipe that comes down to the old fuel pump, as the o44 has to be fitted alot higher than the stock one so the pickup is in the same spot.

I would suggest tracing an outline of the stock pump before you remove anything, that way the pickup will be in the right spot when you put it back in. Sorry I dont have any photos.

[JimX]

Well I got my turbo sorted out and while I had my groove going I decided to tackle the fuel pump again. Attached is the pic of where I'm up to so far.

As you can see I planned for being able to put the old pump back in should I ever need to, and I didn't cut the metal outlet off. I will bend the bottom part out of the way when I attach the pickup tomorrow. I also need to get a bigger hose outlet and some sort of adapter to fit it to the rest of the hose out of the tank.

Hopefully it'll be up and running tomorrow night! Yes this pump is overkill for my current setup, but I got it direct from Bosch and it was dirt cheap, so I figured I may as well go for it.

Edit: Steve, what's a banjo connector? Also, do you actually *need* to put the pickup back in the new pump? I had a look and it doesn't seem to pick up the fuel from much lower than the pump itself. I might run out of fuel a couple of litres early but I can't see why I actually need it. Looking in the end of the pump I can see a screen in there already so I shouldn't have to worry about the pump sucking in a lot of crap.

[predator]

Man thats huge!.. but yer.. Steve has the install described pretty well, that is what I did, although I didn't actually read that before - mighta helped The 910 is much smaller, but similar configuration.. Wish my photos could have been better quality but I have only got a bargain basement digital camera.

yes, that old hose pickup i just left there sitting and it helped to hold it in place in a way. If you want it to sit up higher - guess u gotta hacksaw it off. Yer, i dunno, the way i have it now its sitting at the same level - there is room for the filter "sock" to slide around a little down there.. maybe it will reduce the actual "empty" state where it conks out, but there would be bugger all in it and mine was 9/10 empty this morning.

I took mine for a good fang this morning.. working at least as good as the old pump and maybe (altho could well be imagining it) smoother foot to floor power. Noticed some richness, but a proper dyno tune of my S-AFC should get everything sorted. Will be interested to see the end results in terms of rwkw.

Not too fussed about any power gains, and i think my stock pump was still working pretty well, but it can never hurt.. My old pump can go to some needy Silvia owner will give them more kick than their stocky.

[JimX]

I don't think it's your imagination, I would think that power delivery would definitely be smoother. I only upgraded mine for 2 reasons - to help stop leaning out up top, and to provide better off-idle response (smoother foot-to-floor power). I also hope it will fix the stalling problem that plagues mine and so many others.

I'm going to go to Pirtek, Jaycar, and Mitre 10 for all the parts I need tomorrow. The adapter for the fuel pickup is looking to be the hardest thing to find, but hopefully Pirtek will sort me out for that and the hoses.

Jaycar is for the electrical terminals (grr, I've got spade terminals but no round ones!) and Mitre 10 for the 2 small nuts and washers to mount them on.

I toyed with the idea of making the pump run a constant 12 volts even at idle, but the 044 is apparently so loud that I think I will welcome the peace and quiet when sitting at traffic lights with the factory setup It should have more pressure at the lower voltage than the factory pump anyway.

[Steve]

JimX, you dont need to put the pickup back in place, but it may help with surge on lower fuel tank levels, also, there is a filter on the pump, but I was told by a mate who is a mechanic that he believes that not putting the pickup on is probably the reason he has had to replace 044s in the past as they died after about 6 months.

This is what he told me anyways, so I did what he said. Its not too hard, you just need the adaptor to go in the bottom and a hosetail connector to go onto that. Slide a short piece of 1/2 inch fuel line over the hosetail connector, put two clamps on, then attach the pickup.

the other thing is that the pump must be placed higher up the bracket so that the pickup is in the same place as stock, so you will have to cut off the metal pipe, no other way around it that I could see, or I would have done it.

the banjo connector is a metal fitting that goes on the top of the pump. the pump has holes in the side, therefore you cant put the fuel hose directly ontop of it. The banjo connector goes off at 90-deg to the pump, so you can attach a hose to it. this is why you need the 3/8in fuel line, as the banjo connector is too fat to fit the stock stuff onto. You will also need another hose clamp to fit to the fuel line where it attaches to the fuel tank cover, as 3/8 is a pretty loose fit, but nice and tight on the banjo connector.

Have fun - I did.

PS, as posted above, the connectors and banjo clamp can be gotten from a decent speed shop.

EDIT: it really isnt a very noisey pump when mounted in tank, just a purr when ouside the car with engine off (when you first turn the key) during idle, I can hardly hear a thing, and my car is pretty quiet, ie legal.

[JimX]

Thanks for the extra info Steve. Do you think Pirtek would have everything I need to connect the hoses? (adapters, banjo clamp etc) There is a Pirtek right near my home which I'll swing by after work, but I don't know of any performance shops in this area. Most of them are on the south side and I don't think I'd be able to make it there before they close.

I would like to fit the pickup, because I don't want to run out of fuel with 5 litres left in the tank I was just thinking worst case scenario if I couldn't get any adapter for it.

I forgot to take note of where the stock pickup goes in the tank, but is it really that important? I was just going to aim it generally downwards to get the fuel from as low as possible. Are you saying that it will sit too low because of the extra hose and adapter?

I might try bending the metal pipe out of the way completely. If that fails then I think I can still cut it and re-use it with the original pump if necessay, it should be fine with a longer bit of hose and a tighter clamp (since the bump won't be there anymore).

[Steve]

Good luck at Pritek, you might get lucky, also somewhere like enzed? I only found this place on recommendation of a mate of a mate - went to 5 different shops looking for the bloody thing. I think autobarn had the banjo connector ( I got mine off a mechanic mate, but while in autobarn looking for the hosetail connector they asked if I wanted one), but defianately didnt have the hosetail connector for the bottom.

I am not sure about the placement of the pickup, just got it where the stocker is for the reasons stated above. I do know that I drove it on empty (57litres to fill her up) and absolutely no signs of surge so I am happy. Spose if the boys at nissan put it there, its becuase that is where it works best.

I do know a couple of guys who have been getting surge problems with as much as 1/2 tank - and that was fitted by a workshop! so probably best be careful.

[JimX]

I didn't know what Enzed was, but I looked it up in Whitepages and it says "ENZED TOTAL HOSE & FITTING SERVICE". That's pretty much the same thing as Pirtek. Enzed's a fair bit further away from me but I'll try there if Pirtek can't help.

[Guest gtst88]

guys,

how much is a bosch 044 ?

[JimX]

Retail for an 044 is around $500-600. Trade price is around $350. Bosch price is even less The 044 for me ended up being only around $50 more expensive than the 040 so I figured I may as well get it.

[predator]

For GTS-T owners.. the Bosch 910 I got pretty much new (altho it was off the sale forums on here) for $200 - will do you fine unless u want over 300rwkw I believe (rated at 450hp).

They go for around $250 new I think. That is what I installed, but JimX is nicely setup to be a drag car now... lol

[Guest gtst88]

jimX,

thanks for the info dude !

where can i get the Bosch 044 ?

Cheers,

NT

[JimX]

Repco sell the Bosch pumps.

Steve, I'm having a LOT of fun getting this pump back in. I can get the brackt in by itself, but I try again with the pump and it hits on the fuel tank wall and I can't get it in. I'm pulling tricks out of my arse to try getting it in. I've also moved the pump up further, maybe too high now. But the metal hose is long gone

Just a question in case you answer it before I get it in (may not even get it done tonight) - how far up is your pump? The top of mine is currently up near where the metal tube starts to come off the bracket, if that makes sense. It's cut off at that point, and that's where the top of the pump is.

I'm high on petrol fumes!

[JimX]

Argh, finally got it in, but the bracket doesn't slide all the way down because the pump is still in the way of something. But neither will it come off if I pull it up because something else catches, so I decided to cut my losses after about 3 hours of stuffing around with it and just leave it there. I tried bending the bracket all sorts of ways and this was the best fit I could do.

The pickup goes right down into the front section of the tank which is really small. I think I am picking up the fuel from slightly higher than it should be, but because that area is so small I'm probably missing out on the last half litre (if that).

Still seems prone to stalling so I guess it hasn't helped there. If anything it's slightly worse. Hopefully it'll be a bit better after the S-AFC tune this Saturday. Failing that I might try the constant 12 volt mod.

Oh, and this thing is quiet! I can barely hear it. I've no doubt that it'd be loud mounted externally or in a surge tank, but deep in the fuel tank it's almost as quiet as the stock pump.

[Steve]

JimX, my pumps sounds like it is in the same spot as yours in relation to the bracket. I got it in (all the way) by bending the locating lugs out a bit and then just pushing/wiggling it side to side:D Took about 60sec and then just slit into place....must have been lucky:)

so who did you end up getting the fittings from? My pump is pretty quiet too, quite a pleasant surprise, I was expecting alot more noise than I got.

with the stalling thing, I found a couple of loose hoses connected to the plenum and one with a small split where it joined the plenum. that fixed most of the problem, but it still had troubles so I adjusted my BOV tighter and presto, problem solved:) I am replacing the BOV with a trust type R which adjust like a wastegate, so hopefully when that is on, the problem wont resurface.

[JimX]

I got the fittings from Earl's performance in Silverwater. I got referred there by Pirtek who had absolutely nothing I needed! However even Earl's didn't have a banjo connector that fit. He took the spring valve off at the top and put a regular connector on because it didn't seem essential. It was not preferable but by this stage I had to get the new pump in or be without a car. This means that the fuel will slowly drain back into the tank when the car isn't running, but I've experimented with it and it's not too bad.

I ended up cutting the bracket because I thought that was the part that was catching, but apparently not. Also the pickup isn't as far down as I thought, I'm missing around the last 5 litres of the tank (started running out of fuel, filled up to 58 litres or so). At this stage I can't be bothered getting back in there and fixing it but I'll see what happens.

I might try attaching a longer hose to the bottom of the pump at some stage, because I'm pretty sure I can see where the pickup is meant to go. (that's about ALL i can see in there!)

I feel partly a sense of accomplishment and partly a sense of frustration. Over these past few days I've found that I'm a lot better at removing and replacing turbos

[Steve]

running out at 58L isnt too bad, like I said before, guys I know have been having surge probs form 1/4 to 1/2 tank on a professionally (arguable) done job, so I think you should be feeling reasonably happy with yourself. I think I am a bit like you, I like things to be 100% right, otherwise I may be pretty happy but not completely satisfied.

Hope all goes well with the retune:)

[JimX]

Thanks for the encouraging words Steve, I feel a bit better about it now. I might just leave it that way for a bit longer before getting back into it.

Jeez, has this topic been done to death yet? I've been speaking to a few people about it, and there seems to be some disagreement as to under what circumstances fuel will ignite. My dad said that it could be done with the 12 volts circulating in the pump, until I told him that the pump was actually IN the petrol. That shut him up pretty good

But what are the risks, say, if the positive terminal somehow earths out in the tank? IS 12 volts enough to make your car explode? I'm pretty sure I've done a better job than the factory wiring, because the factory wires weren't soldered to the tags and mine are. But since I've only just done it myself, I can't be as certain as the original setup, because it'd been that way for 8 years without explosion.

[Steve]

One tiny spark, but you will still have trouble getting fuel vapours to ignite unless you have enough oxygen, so very very unlikely. the other problem is, where is the positive terminal going to contact? Its all earthed and plastic. the stock pump on mine was just connectors on the pump with nuts - no insulation what so ever.

Another thought, have you tried adjusting the air bleed screw on the back of the ACC (or is it AAC:)) vavle? might be worth a try.