Interesting R35 Australia Update

[Duncan]

they will now lol

[scathing]

Does no one think that Nissan aren't going to bust their arses to ensure it gets here atleast a week before April fools day?

I'm just imagining a situation where Nissan Australia would go the extra mile to deliver something to their customers in a timely manner......

Zen practitioners talk about trying to achieve an empty mind. I think I just succeeded.

[Nick_S]

Anyone interested in the release dates?

1/04/09

On which date was the R35 released in japan???

24/10/07

That, everybody, is 7 days LATER than 18months..

We only need an 18month window of opprtunity and we get automatic SEVS entry...

Let's see when they arrive, but this will open the floodgates to SEVS imports.

Ummm ... hate to break it to you but that is EXACTLY one year, five months and 7 days.

Have another count ...

[700HP-GTR33]

120-150k is quite reasonable.

Someone buy my wagon!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not now........the Australian Dollar is sitting Pretty at 93 US cents and this is only going to increase in the next few months.

the talk about town is in 6 months we will be equal to the US Dollar.

Nissan needs to re-visit its $ conversion rates for Australia, as the time nears to its delivery.

The pricing should reflect the great currency surge and the poor US slump.

I mean....last talk to a few in the States put the GTR at around $60K US on the road....lol

OK NISSAN...stop playing games cause it will only bite you on the bum when the whole thing goes ASS over.

TELL US...what price the car will be on sale in Australia...IN Japanese Yen.....

This way we can work out what the dollar value of the car will be.....I mean this will be much simpler.

I don't buy anything...unless I know what it is going to cost me....

FFS...are we just considered lame because we are in this so called...(Small Market).

If that is the case Nissan...don't bring them in at all...we will just buy then 2nd hand in 2 to 3 years time...

You know..it might pay to visit Japan for a year...buy a GTR..then bring it to Aus....

Has anyone done any conversions on this..I am sure you will be saving..1/2 the cost..at least.

Nissan .....Wake up...We are smarter here than you think.

[nickcorr]

Maybe they could go the other way with the Aus spec R35...

The UK spec R34 GT-R had higher specs that the Japanese cars in a couple of key areas..... Full Connolly leather interiors, done in the UK..

But most importantly, extra oil coolers for the rear diff, and transmission, I think, to cope with long sustained high speed work. Apparently they expected the wheel heeled owners to take the cars over to the 'ring and didn't want them overheating bits on the way, flat out on the autobauns. They may even have had a higher final drive as well.

Nissan GB had 4 R34 press cars all Bayside blue and beautiful... Only one of them lived long enough to enter the dealer network 12 months later.....

[dazmo]

Maybe they could go the other way with the Aus spec R35...

The UK spec R34 GT-R had higher specs that the Japanese cars in a couple of key areas..... Full Connolly leather interiors, done in the UK..

But most importantly, extra oil coolers for the rear diff, and transmission, I think, to cope with long sustained high speed work. Apparently they expected the wheel heeled owners to take the cars over to the 'ring and didn't want them overheating bits on the way, flat out on the autobauns. They may even have had a higher final drive as well.

Nissan GB had 4 R34 press cars all Bayside blue and beautiful... Only one of them lived long enough to enter the dealer network 12 months later.....

I wouldn't think Nissan would detune the R35 either if you have a look at the australian delivered R32GTR's they were changed from jap spec but for the better. They had a oil cooler for the transfer case stnd a slightly larger intercooler core and retuned ecu(with speed limiter removed) for australian conditions and they definatly did not suffer a lack of performance over a jap spec R32GTR. So I wouldnt worry to much about the changes that Nissan will make.

[Duncan]

Very true - but the 32 GTR was the sports car they bought in without detuning them (not sure about the intercooler but they definately got xfer case and rear diff coolers). In fact I think you will find they were burned hard by the losses they made trying to sell those cars at the price they needed to and that is why they have cut costs ever since. Remember they imported 200 cars and had to send half of them back to japan 2 years later because no-one would buy them at any proce.

I would be great if nissan aus realised how far the market has moved in the last 20 years, but I suspect they haven't. Grey imports, private racers and workshops have made nissan into australia's highest profile affordable performance cars - despite nissan aus's effort blocking imports with DOTARS, poor parts support (until recently) etc etc

[Sydneykid]

Good point gary!!

Its actually Matt...

And I am redoing the maths Now...

And I am actually wrong, it is 23 days before 18 months, I am a month out....

FAIL to me

[Sydneykid]

Ummm ... hate to break it to you but that is EXACTLY one year, five months and 7 days.

Have another count ...

Yeah, got crried away doing 2 things at once there.

Nice try though, I thought

[ras1983]

Not now........the Australian Dollar is sitting Pretty at 93 US cents and this is only going to increase in the next few months.

the talk about town is in 6 months we will be equal to the US Dollar.

Nissan needs to re-visit its $ conversion rates for Australia, as the time nears to its delivery.

The pricing should reflect the great currency surge and the poor US slump.

I mean....last talk to a few in the States put the GTR at around $60K US on the road....lol

...

TELL US...what price the car will be on sale in Australia...IN Japanese Yen.....

This way we can work out what the dollar value of the car will be.....I mean this will be much simpler.

I don't buy anything...unless I know what it is going to cost me....

...

Some excellent points in there. It would be a damn shame if Nissan Aus didn't pass on any possible discounts resulting from the increased strength of the AUD. While 150K may initially seem reasonable for an 11 second supercar; at current conversion rates 8.5M (and I'm being a little generous on the before tax price of GTR's in Japan) yen will be around $AUD90K. Other than profiteering, I can't see why Nissan Australia shouldn't sell the car for a price thats closer to 120K than 150K. They should even be able to sell it for less than 120K and still make a margin.

So really, by the time you factor in the costs of ADR compliance, import duties and all other costs involved with selling an imported car (can anyone tell us what are the different costs usually involved with selling a car like the GTR in Australia is?) there's no reason we should be paying more than 130K - 135K at the MOST.

[Duncan]

taxes are the killer

$90k to buy

10% GST = $9k -> $99k

15% Import duty = $15k -> $114k (tax on tax, nice)

25% Luxury Car tax on amount over $60k = $11k -> $125k cost price. Plus shipping to Aus of course. And rego and on-roads. And stamp duty on rego.

Your 120k list price isn't leaving much profit for nissan.....

[ras1983]

Didn't realise there were so many taxes . Still, 150K is a reasonable price for a car of such performance. You'd have to spend upwards of $250K to get a car with similiar performance.

[MarkZ]

taxes are the killer

$90k to buy

10% GST = $9k -> $99k

15% Import duty = $15k -> $114k (tax on tax, nice)

25% Luxury Car tax on amount over $60k = $11k -> $125k cost price. Plus shipping to Aus of course. And rego and on-roads. And stamp duty on rego.

Your 120k list price isn't leaving much profit for nissan.....

Thought I'd chip in here..... the sums above are waaaaay wrong, starting with the $90k figure. Furthermore import duty is 10% not 15%..... plus a bunch of other stuff, you'll see

Here's my calc's, based on a Base model, RRP 7,770,000 Yen in Japan (currently ~81,500 AUD).

WHAT IS THE COST PRICE?

Nissan Australia will buy this car at manufacturing cost price plus an operating margin, but of course not at full Japanese dealer RRP. This is what I'm going to call the Nissan Aus COST price, which is a very important number to recognise since import duty is applied to the COST price, and affects the GST and LCT calcs.

Let's guess a number, which I'm going to work out below.

The RRP in the USA is ~70,000 USD (= 75,000 AUD) for the Base model, in Japan its 81,500 AUD and in Canada its ~82,000 CAD (= 89,300 AUD). Those sell prices include their local taxes, duties, and local Nissan dealer markup (or profit). I'm not familiar with those taxes, or profit margins, but logically Nissan Japan is selling the car to Nissan USA dealers for substantially less than 75,000 AUD. So let's use 65,000 AUD for argument's sake as the COST to Nissan USA, which should then be the same to Nissan Aus. IMHO its still probably way too high a number.

I'm going to totally ignore shipping since Nissan has access to bulk shipping arrangements, and couldn't possibly be paying more than $1,000 to $1,500 per car. I mean, that's a container to you or me, right? ...and at most adds $2k to the final price below.

TAXES INTO AUSTRALIA

Import duty comes first. $65,000 x 10% = $6,500. So what I'd call the "landed" price is going to be $71,500.

GST and LCT (luxury car tax) don't really matter at this stage. These get applied when you buy the car from the dealer, and any tax already paid by Nissan get subtracted from the the final amount. You don't pay GST on top of GST, or LCT on top of LCT...

However, let's work these out anyway.

GST = $71,500 x 10% = $7,150

LCT = ($71,500 + $7,150 - $57,123) x (10/11) x 25% = ~$4,900

NISSAN AUSTRALIA MARKUP AND SELL PRICE..... TO YOU!

So far Nissan Aus has outlaid $65,000 + $6,500 + $7,150 + $4,900 = $83,550. But remember the car really only cost them $71,500, they pass on paying the GST and LCT to you.

How much profit is fair or normal in the car industry? I can't answer that one but when I guessed the COST price based on the USA pricing, I only left 10k on the table for the USA dealer to make! Let's be generous and say $25,000 for the Aussie dealer.

NOTE: if you want to INCREASE the dealer profit, then you have to remember to DECREASE the cost price Nissan pays for the car, due to what we know about the overseas pricing structure.

GST and LCT get calculated again, based on a desired dealer sell price of $71,500 + $25,000 = $96,500.

GST = $96,500 x 10% = $9,650

LCT = ($96,500 + $9,650 - $57,123) x (10/11) x 25% = $11,142

So the final sell price, to you, is $96,500 + $9,650 + $11,142 = $117,292 plus on-roads. NOWHERE NEAR THE $150k I KEEP HEARING!

THE LAST WORD

You can run the above numbers for yourself, using different cost prices and profit margins. If you want to INCREASE the local dealer profit, then you have to remember to DECREASE the cost price Nissan pays for the car.

IMHO $110-115k is a fair price.

Why? I worked out that if you grey import a Base model (with the Aussie dollar buying 95 Yen) and allowing a whopping $10,000 for compliance, you can have the car for $122,000. Even if the grey import path doesn't become available, it still demonstrates the local price of the car if you paid full dealer price in Japan and the consequently higher local taxes based on that price. A dealer car here HAS TO BE cheaper than importing it yourself... or else why do you need the local car company?

I'd love a brand spanking new GTR, but its got to be at a fair price!

I hope my thoughts are useful information to everyone here.

- Mark

[Sydneykid]

Thought I'd chip in here..... the sums above are waaaaay wrong, starting with the $90k figure. Furthermore import duty is 10% not 15%..... plus a bunch of other stuff, you'll see

Here's my calc's, based on a Base model, RRP 7,770,000 Yen in Japan (currently ~81,500 AUD).

WHAT IS THE COST PRICE?

Nissan Australia will buy this car at manufacturing cost price plus an operating margin, but of course not at full Japanese dealer RRP. This is what I'm going to call the Nissan Aus COST price, which is a very important number to recognise since import duty is applied to the COST price, and affects the GST and LCT calcs.

Let's guess a number, which I'm going to work out below.

The RRP in the USA is ~70,000 USD (= 75,000 AUD) for the Base model, in Japan its 81,500 AUD and in Canada its ~82,000 CAD (= 89,300 AUD). Those sell prices include their local taxes, duties, and local Nissan dealer markup (or profit). I'm not familiar with those taxes, or profit margins, but logically Nissan Japan is selling the car to Nissan USA dealers for substantially less than 75,000 AUD. So let's use 65,000 AUD for argument's sake as the COST to Nissan USA, which should then be the same to Nissan Aus. IMHO its still probably way too high a number.

I'm going to totally ignore shipping since Nissan has access to bulk shipping arrangements, and couldn't possibly be paying more than $1,000 to $1,500 per car. I mean, that's a container to you or me, right? ...and at most adds $2k to the final price below.

TAXES INTO AUSTRALIA

Import duty comes first. $65,000 x 10% = $6,500. So what I'd call the "landed" price is going to be $71,500.

GST and LCT (luxury car tax) don't really matter at this stage. These get applied when you buy the car from the dealer, and any tax already paid by Nissan get subtracted from the the final amount. You don't pay GST on top of GST, or LCT on top of LCT...

However, let's work these out anyway.

GST = $71,500 x 10% = $7,150

LCT = ($71,500 + $7,150 - $57,123) x (10/11) x 25% = ~$4,900

NISSAN AUSTRALIA MARKUP AND SELL PRICE..... TO YOU!

So far Nissan Aus has outlaid $65,000 + $6,500 + $7,150 + $4,900 = $83,550. But remember the car really only cost them $71,500, they pass on paying the GST and LCT to you.

How much profit is fair or normal in the car industry? I can't answer that one but when I guessed the COST price based on the USA pricing, I only left 10k on the table for the USA dealer to make! Let's be generous and say $25,000 for the Aussie dealer.

NOTE: if you want to INCREASE the dealer profit, then you have to remember to DECREASE the cost price Nissan pays for the car, due to what we know about the overseas pricing structure.

GST and LCT get calculated again, based on a desired dealer sell price of $71,500 + $25,000 = $96,500.

GST = $96,500 x 10% = $9,650

LCT = ($96,500 + $9,650 - $57,123) x (10/11) x 25% = $11,142

So the final sell price, to you, is $96,500 + $9,650 + $11,142 = $117,292 plus on-roads. NOWHERE NEAR THE $150k I KEEP HEARING!

THE LAST WORD

You can run the above numbers for yourself, using different cost prices and profit margins. If you want to INCREASE the local dealer profit, then you have to remember to DECREASE the cost price Nissan pays for the car.

IMHO $110-115k is a fair price.

Why? I worked out that if you grey import a Base model (with the Aussie dollar buying 95 Yen) and allowing a whopping $10,000 for compliance, you can have the car for $122,000. Even if the grey import path doesn't become available, it still demonstrates the local price of the car if you paid full dealer price in Japan and the consequently higher local taxes based on that price. A dealer car here HAS TO BE cheaper than importing it yourself... or else why do you need the local car company?

I'd love a brand spanking new GTR, but its got to be at a fair price!

I hope my thoughts are useful information to everyone here.

- Mark

Hi Mark, pretty close but you left out;

Shipping (say $1,000)

Insurance (say $500)

Predelivery (say $1,500)

Warranty allowance (say $3,000)

Servicing allowance (say $2,000)

Floor plan costs inc insurance around 11% PA, say 3 months average $3,000

Plus I believe you have under estimated;

Nissan Australia Profit around 20%

Dealer Profit around 15%

Then Rego, CTP insurance and stamp duty

I make that around $140K, so the $150K is not that far off for next year allowing for inflation at 4%.

Cheers

Gary

[Paradizzle]

Shipping will easily be closer to 2.5k$ per car. Dont forget to include all the extras like load fees, discharge fees, customs, storage, transporting the car to the dealership etc etc... the actual tport cost from Japan to Australia would be 1-1.5k but all the extra costs add up.

[Sydneykid]

Shipping will easily be closer to 2.5k$ per car. Dont forget to include all the extras like load fees, discharge fees, customs, storage, transporting the car to the dealership etc etc... the actual tport cost from Japan to Australia would be 1-1.5k but all the extra costs add up.

I would assume that Nissan would include the GTR's in the normal scheduled shipment, where they use almost a whole deck of DoDo. So the costs are amortised over the shipment of several hundred cars.

Cheers

Gary

[sewid]

Shipping will easily be closer to 2.5k$ per car. Dont forget to include all the extras like load fees, discharge fees, customs, storage, transporting the car to the dealership etc etc... the actual tport cost from Japan to Australia would be 1-1.5k but all the extra costs add up.

That is what retail RoRo shipping costs but to Nissan they would be paying much much less for bulk transport.

[Roy]

Even though the GTR was built for a global market and with exports in mind, its logical to think that the GTR will get different radiators, coolers, shocks and springs...tyres maybe even rims. Then things like interior trim and elecric goodies in the cabin could be spec'd out/down. Headlights etc etc

I dont think the cars will be too radically different. Will look to see what changes are made to US/UK spec cars and we will get something similar. Im not fussed if the thing is 120k or 160k...its all a little too rich for me Only was it will affect me is the amount of them i will have to pull over for at the track If we were talking the difference between 80k and 110k...

[MarkZ]

Gary,

I can't agree at all to those additonal costs with regard to my illustration. You've factored in $11,000 of extra costs plus a huge jump in combined dealer/Nissan corporate profit.

Sure, these costs and overheads DO exist, but you have to include them within the figure I chose to call COST price above (which was a guess of $65,000). With those additions the cost becomes $76,000.

So......... how could the car possibly sell for what is does in the USA ($75,000), Japan ($81,500), Canada ($89,300)...... oh, and don't forget "Rip-Off England" (55,000 GBP = $119,600).

They all have taxes, fees, duties, shipping, insurance, markups, etc.

No sir, it just doesn't add up.

This is a global car at a global price. The differences in taxes between us and the above examples would land us somewhere in the middle there, realistically we should be coming in somewhere around the Canadian price. So IMHO, $110-115 is "a" right price, but I'm actually being generous to Nissan since $80-90k is obviously very very doable if they want to.

- Mark

Edited March 10, 2008 by MarkZ

[Sydneykid]

Gary,

I can't agree at all to those additonal costs with regard to my illustration. You've factored in $11,000 of extra costs plus a huge jump in combined dealer/Nissan corporate profit.

Sure, these costs and overheads DO exist, but you have to include them within the figure I chose to call COST price above (which was a guess of $65,000). With those additions the cost becomes $76,000.

So......... how could the car possibly sell for what is does in the USA ($75,000), Japan ($81,500), Canada ($89,300)...... oh, and don't forget "Rip-Off England" (55,000 GBP = $119,600).

They all have taxes, fees, duties, shipping, insurance, markups, etc.

No sir, it just doesn't add up.

This is a global car at a global price. The differences in taxes between us and the above examples would land us somewhere in the middle there, realistically we should be coming in somewhere around the Canadian price. So IMHO, $110-115 is "a" right price, but I'm actually being generous to Nissan since $80-90k is obviously very very doable if they want to.

- Mark

Hi Mark, take a look at what cars cost in the USA and what they cost here, any cars, Honda Civics to M3's. They have a market that is 15 times our size (20 million compared to 300 million people), so their costs are amortised over 15 times as many cars. Let's try something simple, say the satellite navigation. Assume it costs $15,000 to engineer the system to work in the US and the same $15,000 to work in Australia. If we get say 100 cars that's $1500 each and the USA gets 1500 cars that's $100 each. Result = we pay $1,400 more for the car plus duty, GST and margins. The same logic applies to the ICE, PAL versus CTC, different radio frequencies, ADR's etc etc.

It doesn't stop at hard parts either, the cost of shipping from Japan to the west coast USA is less than 1/4 ours, plus the higher volume makes it even cheaper. Ditto insurance, local freight etc etc. The USA sales tax is state controlled, some as low as 2.5% and there is no stamp duty that I know of. Nissan most likley offsets any import duty into the US with exports to Mexico, Canada and South America.

When you get to Nissan USA margins they will have 15 times the volume so a lower percentage will be more acceptable, ditto the car dealers. Their floor plan finance costs are half ours and their stock holding would be way less than our typical 3 months.

But hey what would I know, I only worked for a major car importer for 4 years.

Cheers

Gary