Nagtroc Going Downhill?

[funkymonkey]

Has anyone else been following the drama on NAGTROC, the admins are fighting amongst themselves and creating clones of their forums etc. Its like a techie soap opera.

lol kinda makes me proud of the Aussie mentality that has kept this site strong since its conception years ago ... but yeesh, the guys in the US finally have a GT-R after so many years and they're already bringing dirty politics, drama and disarray into a newborn community. Off to a flying start.

Anyways, a little offtopic, but I'm guessing most of you guys who frequent this section might be members of that forum too. Just be careful not to get caught up in the middle of it, sometimes renegade admins have been known to phish for passwords etc.

[scathing]

I haven't been on NAGTROC since the guys on 350Z-Tech spun it off. I joined when they launched it, but it held almost no interest for me.

Is it that bad? The 'Tech guys are quite level headed.

Edited March 11, 2008 by scathing

[scathing]

Anyways, a little offtopic, but I'm guessing most of you guys who frequent this section might be members of that forum too. Just be careful not to get caught up in the middle of it, sometimes renegade admins have been known to phish for passwords etc.

Like this?

[sewid]

Yeah it's a shame, there was a bit of a fight between the forum admin and the owner of the domain so they went seperate ways.

I am on the fence but the forum admin has all of the forum data and has already relocated to nagtroc.org and since word has spread to all the various blogs etc I think most people will go right on posting on it.

edit: Wow looking at it now it appears that the whole story is posted on nagtroc.com with the data back there...

This is going to spell problems for the Nagtroc.org owners as people may just forget there's a difference.

[sewid]

GT-R Community

I would like to elaborate on recent events.

NAGTROC started as a subforum of 350Z-Tech.com, a site I host and partially own, of which Dave has no part. As the subforum grew, the decision was made to eventually move the subforum to a new site, and the idea that would become NAGTROC was formed. Dave reserved the domain name while I installed the site software and continued to host the site. A few others were brought onboard to help build the site by adding content and staffing the site. Members joined and posted. This is how NAGTROC was created.

Over the course of the last year, I attempted to formally organize NAGTROC into a LLC between himself and Dave. Dave would not entertain discussion on the idea. In recent weeks an unsolicited offer was placed with Dave to buy out NAGTROC. Dave publicly posted that he was considering selling the site- despite the fact that he was not the sole owner. When confronted privately, he explained to me that myself and the other admins that helped build the site were only volunteers and that the site was completely his. Publicly, he deleted his thread where he announced the offer to buy out.

Being that:

-I was hosting NAGTROC, paying all associated costs

-Dave had accepted sponsor payment and would not turn any share of this payment to me

-Dave was taking an unreasonable amount of time to even entertain my requests to formally incorporate the site

-Dave had told me that myself and others were only volunteers and not owners

-Dave was planning on selling the site so that, according to him, he could have 85% the cost of a GT-R

I made the decision to limit Dave's access to the site and at the same time, moved NAGTROC to a new domain. Publicly, it was stated that there was a change in administration due to a dispute regarding the domain name. Meanwhile privately, Dave had said that he did not own the domain name.

Privately, I as well as the new .org administration made an offer to Dave to work together, and offered Dave a retained ownership percentage that was believed to be fair. Although we had serious issues with him and the way he was conducting business, it was believed that this would be best for the community.

Dave declined this offer. Through undisclosed means Dave created a copy of my database, which he has used to resetup the .com site. Dave is currently claiming to have regained access to the original domain by working a deal with the interim owners of the .com domain.

We have requested both sites be taken down to discuss the situation. Dave has declined.

As always we are interested in working with Dave for the betterment of the GT-R community.

We regret the confusion and inconvenience this has caused.

Signed

Toykilla

on behalf of NAGTROC staff

Looks like a massive shitfight has brewed... sucks to be stuck in the middle of that...

[akeenan]

whats a nagtrog? eheh

[Chuck_H]

Yes this whole situation is very unfortunate. I not going to comment on it right now but just want to apologize to any AUS members who browse the site. I still hold hope that things can be worked out as this whole situation is not going to be good for anybody.

Take Care,

Chuck

[N1GTR]

lol, what an unrequired drama

[scathing]

Welcome to the Internets.

Its a shame that it all went downhill. If there's one thing I hate, its politics.

I hope Josh and Dave sort their shit out. While I haven't been on NAGTROC for ages, I've still dealt with them both as a mod on 350Z-Tech and they both seem OK guys.

[saliya]

Welcome to the Internets.

Its a shame that it all went downhill. If there's one thing I hate, its politics.

I hope Josh and Dave sort their shit out. While I haven't been on NAGTROC for ages, I've still dealt with them both as a mod on 350Z-Tech and they both seem OK guys.

The way I read it (ok, only one side of the story but no rebuttals from anyone) is that it's not politics - it's just money.

Funny to think of 'your eyes' being bought and sold like that; but it happens.

Regards,

Saliya

[NISMO]

Profits = greed = sh!t fights over car forums!

So much for doing something "for the community"

[chak8080]

IMO sau has better skyline info and better personal connects with the folks in Japan anyways... so no loss for me if nagtroc goes down the shitter. Only a handful of Americans in the US own skylines... the rest just research/talk/pose so I feel the quality of info is far better on sau than nagrtoc.

[scathing]

so no loss for me if nagtroc goes down the shitter.

Only a handful of Americans in the US own skylines... the rest just research/talk/pose so I feel the quality of info is far better on sau than nagrtoc.

That's now, due to the fact that there's pretty much been no street legal GT-R ever released in the USA (thanks to Moto Rex's bullshit) so the only ones in the country are race-only or show cars. Of course you're going to get keyboard racers in that environment.

What about when the R35 gets released, and the US guys start working on them? Given the sheer amount of money and population they've got to throw at the car, its their tuners that will end up modifying them harder and faster than any other English-speaking country.

Australia's had GT-Rs forever on the grey market, but you'll notice that it was GTROC in the UK that got invited by Nissan to TAS for the official unveiling on VIP day. I'm willing to bet that, should NAGTROC have stayed singular and attracted some big-name customers, they would have gotten more inside info from Nissan (and Nissan taking their feedback) than GTROC, let alone SAU.

Owning a 350Z, I've seen what happens when US enthusiasts get behind a car. More mods come out, both from the US and Japan (Tanabe's TEAS system was originally invented by the US and wasn't available from Japan with the Z33 / V35 being one of the first cars to support it and the first twin turbo kit for the FM platform cars was from GReddy, not Trust). Considering the platform was new and it was the first time the engine had been used in a performance car application, the mods came out relatively quickly too.

A failure in the US enthusiast community affects us. While we can still rely on the Japanese to churn out excellent aftermarket parts and eventually get the R35 and VR38DETT to the level of support we enjoy with the R34 and RB26DETT, we'd get there a lot faster and cheaper if the Americans are on board.

[chak8080]

Sorry but it surely doesn't affect me. Possibly in the future when I can afford a GTR or have time to dedicate to track but for now, my GTT is a DD and the BEST info I've ever found for my GTT is on SAU. I've had my GTT for 4 years now so I've been on all the english speaking skyline forums looking for one thats purposeful for me... most of the forums compose of a bunch of kids having fun in their make believe world... nothing wrong with that, it's just not for me because I'm looking for solid info, advice and so on. SAU has been the cleanest in my book. I'm kinda isolated here in korea in terms of skyline support so my MAIN source of info is SAU... if I could read Japanese I'd be on their forums instead!

The US market never affected the skyline mods the way the japanese, uk, hk and AU has. Sorry mate but I can careless about the 350z aswell... never owned one and don't expect I ever will. (not a bad car tho) The US market will effect the new GTR's mods.... but that still doesn't effect me right now and that still limits them to ONLY new GTR's. I can see how it would affect the people whos getting a GTR...... am I supposed to sympathize with them? I'm sure they sympathize with me due to the fact that I have a GTT and they have a new GTR haha j/k

Last I was on NAGTROC was back in 2005 so I'm speaking of that time... I don't know how good it is now but if the site admins/creators can't get it together that's gotta tell me something. I'm sure the US will figure things out and when they finally get a quality GTR site up and running it'll probably be informative for people who have the GTR... I never said otherwise. The site might have a different name or whatever... the point is they'll get it together.

So yes, I can careless if nagtroc goes down the shitter. Bottomline is nobody has to really worry...even the GTR owners. Do you really expect nagtroc to go away forever? If they do, do you really think nobody would start a different US gtr site? That being said, do you really think the US parts manufacturers would hold off developing parts for the new GTR because nagtroc's owners are in a hissyfit?... seriously. The new GTR is the talk of the town in the US wether it's positive or negative. nagtroc isn't the only channel spreading gtr info in the US and it'll never be the only channel.

Edited March 12, 2008 by chak8080

[scathing]

The US market never affected the skyline mods the way the japanese, uk, hk and AU has.

Why would they, when they never got them until now?

Sorry mate but I can careless about the 350z aswell... never owned one and don't expect I ever will. (not a bad car tho) The US market will effect the new GTR's mods.... but that still doesn't effect me right now and that still limits them to ONLY new GTR's.

I used the Z33 (and V35) as an example of what happens when the US does get into a car, and what will happen with the R35 and future models.

If you're so short sighted as to not consider whether you'd consider owning an R35 (or R36 or whatever comes next) in the future and the state of the aftermarket at that point, then that's fine and all this has got nothing to do with you.

Why don't you just go back and play in your corner then, and let the big boys talk? We'll go find you a sandpit to bury your head into.

That being said, do you really think the US parts manufacturers would hold off developing parts for the new GTR because nagtroc's owners are in a hissyfit?... seriously. The new GTR is the talk of the town in the US wether it's positive or negative. nagtroc isn't the only channel spreading gtr info in the US and it'll never be the only channel.

No, but right now it is the biggest R35-specific forum out there. Of course people will still produce product for it. But most of them don't have time to be reading dozens of forums and so they'll just go to the biggest ones if they want customer feedback. If "everyone" is on board then you're more likely to have your voice heard.

It won't make or break the market, but if Nissan and the big JDM tuners see that the Americans can't play nice and just act like little kids all the time then they'll still produce products but they're less likely to post up asking for feedback and directly polling their fanbase on the 'net because they'd have to deal with all that shit.

Edited March 13, 2008 by scathing

[chak8080]

Why would they, when they never got them until now?

I used the Z33 (and V35) as an example of what happens when the US does get into a car, and what will happen with the R35 and future models.

If you're so short sighted as to not consider whether you'd consider owning an R35 (or R36 or whatever comes next) in the future and the state of the aftermarket at that point, then that's fine and all this has got nothing to do with you.

Why don't you just go back and play in your corner then, and let the big boys talk? We'll go find you a sandpit to bury your head into.

No, but right now it is the biggest R35-specific forum out there. Of course people will still produce product for it. But most of them don't have time to be reading dozens of forums and so they'll just go to the biggest ones if they want customer feedback. If "everyone" is on board then you're more likely to have your voice heard.

It won't make or break the market, but if Nissan and the big JDM tuners see that the Americans can't play nice and just act like little kids all the time then they'll still produce products but they're less likely to post up asking for feedback and directly polling their fanbase on the 'net because they'd have to deal with all that shit.

Sorry if I offended you by not caring... seriously, I don't want to start anything I was just posting my opinion. If I'm not considered a 'big boy' because I don't believe in your ideas of how things will turn out... so be it. No harm here. Also, who is "We" when you say, "We'll go bury your head in a sandpit"? Are others offended too? If so this is getting totally out of hand hahaha If more users hate me for my opinion then hey, I must be wrong and I'm truely sorry.. I'm jsut speaking from my point of view.. I'm not saying my word is law or anything of the likes like some people. If you think you can tell me what and what not to be worried about in the GTR world... I'm sorry but your mistaken... I don't own a GTR and don't expect to own one anytime soon unless I win the lotto and buy a house first. That's the reality I have to live with haha

If you reread your post, then mine, I think you'll see that I meant no offense to you, 350z owners or new GTR owners. Oh and by the time I can afford a R35, let alone a R36 if there'll be one, it would be MANY years from now so hopefully nagtroc has their shit str8 by then haha j/k In my financial situation and priority wise, my next purchase should be a house... nice cars come next. That should explain my "short sightedness"... possibly excuse it as well. I know how the US market gets into a car.... if its a GTT then I'll be interested. If it's a R32, R33 or R34.. I'll get interested. The new GTR (as awsome as it is) has nothing in common with the previous models so technically... it has nothing to do with me in reality. I love reading about the GTR and so on but if nagtroc falls... seriously, I won't be lighting a candle. Sorry if that offends you.

Also, if your one of those kids having fun in your make believe world then I must apoligize as well. I meant no disrespect... seriously. I think there's nothing wrong with doing that... kids are kids you can't take their fun away. I used to bs on chat forums when I was younger and it was fun!

To put things in perspective... I doubt you care about MY GTT and MY situation and MY support right?... should I hate you for it? naw... haha There's billions more people out there that can careless about my GTT and my situation haha The thing is, I understand your point of view.... and I don't care because it doesn't effect me and I expect it won't effect me even if I buy a GTR sometime in the future. If I had a GTR right now I doubt it would effect me as well because I WOULDN'T MOD A BRAND NEW GTR hahaha WARRENTY?? I'm poor, I can't afford to buy a new car and start modding it like you... I'm not as blessed.

The funny thing is.... I'm American... your Australian... I feel SAU is better and you feel NAGTROC is going to be the best with supporting the new GTR... kinda ironic haha. You're probably right, but in my situation... nagtroc is useless to me and will continue to be. I mean that with no disrespect to nagtroc... its just MY business.

Scathing... I hope I didn't pick at any scabs with this reply... I seriously meant no harm... it's hard to hear the tone of my thoughs thru the net and I'm no english major or a dictionary king... I just try to be real and I'll admit if I'm wrong... I like the truth slightly better than my pride.

Edited March 14, 2008 by chak8080